Controversial General Political Discussion

[Ravagerblade]

Slavery and the Holocaust were legal.

How you feel about that?

Would you respect laws made by Hitler, or disobey them?

Laws made by criminals aren't justice.

Justice? Just Ice kidnapping children.

Kids died in a school shooting yesterday.

This man advocated child murder.

Guess who the media is crying over?

The kids? Or the guy who said public shootings are necessary?

What Law? Where?

Is it hiding in the Epstein Files, or is it Guantanamo?

You guys always go for The Holocaust, Always the low bearing fruit.
Get new material. Otherwise I might accuse you all of wanting another one.
Sickos.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

There will always be those who hyper focus on individual high profile tragedies but the fact of the matter is, that the USA is already in a state of civil conflict. The country is slowly but surely breaking apart and democratic institutions are already under attack. There won't be an easy end to this ultra polarization of US society.
To act like the current state of the US is all about individual acts of violence is ignorant at best, dishonest at worst.

 

[RayanOO]

It's not about wanting him to die
It's about not feeling sympathy for his death

Even if you disagreed strongly with Kirk and think he was a fucking bastard, it should be normal to say that killing him was a serious crime, that the guy did the wrong thing, that it’s not like that at all that you fight against political ideas and yeah he was still a human with a family and children / child

Having no sympathy means you remove a bit the human aspect of your opponent and it can lead for a group to encourage / trivialize such acts.

that all things considered the guy who killed Kirk didn’t do such a bad thing

 

[Logiko]

But honestly, it is silly in my opinion to even base a discussion around the color of someone's skin to begin with.
Morgan Freeman said it the best;

Yeah, I like him as an actor. But the man was completely wrong here.
Racism doesn't magically stop happenning because we stop talking about it. Racism is a systemic domination and exploitation system that create discriminations and domination relationships. It's not a result of bad behaviors.

Yeah yeah, leftism=sainthood, and conservatism is the devil incarnate. Hypocrite.

Not necessessarily. It's a question of understanding of the world.
You said it and showed it yourself, you don't care about being right, or looking at science.
You will deny anything that challenges your own personnal vision.

Your relationship to the political world is based on your beliefs and your mindset, not on the current understanding of reality

Being legal doesn't equal moral. Before considering legality, one should consider the morality of said law. Evil laws should not be respected or obeyed. Nazi Germany taught us that. I do agree that America goes way too easy on hate speech. Social cohesion is gone. Their society is polarized and getting radicalized.

You should consider looking at ethics instead of moral arguments. You are lost

Do you understand that the opposite team can say the exact same thing to justify anything they want ?

That any far right guy can say it’s fair game to make lefties or wokes (in their mind) cower in fear.

And you continue on that path you can justify almost any act of violence.

Yeah things people say can create violence for other people. Saying things isn’t neutral at all I agree. Saying gay people are a problèm or being an ultra anti abortion create risks and danger for those people, in real life. Yes.

But the opposite team can think the same, that the left speech create real danger for their kids, in real life.

There is violence and real life consequences in speeches.

but if you allow people to use violence to fight the ideas you’re against It’s the end. No more democracy.

Its fucking hard, democracy is a long and exhausting way to walk on and the US system is bullshit in some ways but killing or assaulting people isn’t the right way at all. It won’t make you right and won’t at all make the opposite team cower in fear, they will just radicalize more and use the same violence (if they didn’t use it beforehand too).

Depoliticizing much ?
It's like there are only fascist activist and leftist activist shooting at eachothers and never an entire fascist and capitalist system targeting leftist, their allies and marginalized people.

I don't think you are aware of it. But fascist are already killing us.
Maybe you should take a look at political assassination in France. Or... I don't know.. how the fascist system is repressing people all over the world.

It’s two different subjects

You can be against his views about immigrants and still be against him being killed

him having those ideas doesn’t mean he deserved to be killed

to be fought, to be named and shit but not killed

What about Nazis ?
At what point do you consider that a person deserves or not to be killed ? When they make war crimes ? When they participate in a genocide ?

Stop trying to imply that political violence is just an exception with shootings like this one or protest. The ENTIRE system is politically violent. America was forged on a genocide, there is no such thing as an absence of political violence in this world. I saw kids with their skull open by the IDF with not a shread of outrage from people who - like you - are outraged by this political violence.

Welcome to the real world. This is not a safe place.

 

[NAMELESS]

There will always be those who hyper focus on individual high profile tragedies but the fact of the matter is, that the USA is already in a state of civil conflict. The country is slowly but surely breaking apart and democratic institutions are already under attack. There won't be an easy end to this ultra polarization of US society.
To act like the current state of the US is all about individual acts of violence is ignorant at best, dishonest at worst.

You can post something of value when you want. I said that all American here, even thoe that hated Kirk, should be very fucking worried right now. This is a bad sign.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Even if you disagreed strongly with Kirk and think he was a fucking bastard, it should be normal to say that killing him was a serious crime, that the guy didn’t the wrong thing, that it’s not like that at all that you fight against political ideas and yeah he was still a human with a family and children / child

Having no sympathy means you remove a bit the human aspect of your opponent and it can lead for a group to encourage / trivialize such acts.

that all things considered the guy who killed Kirk didn’t do such a bad thing

I keep telling you I know it's a serious crime and I don't think it was exactly right to kill Kirk. I think Kirk likely should have gone to a mental institution or something like that instead of being assassinated.
But I still don't care much about his death. Just like he wouldn't care if me or you or anyone else here dropped dead tomorrow.

 

[Logiko]

I think Kirk likely should have gone to a mental institution.

 

[Reborn]

It’s not what I meant

you can a be a anti abortion if you want

But if your state allows abortion and you’re against that you’re free to protest on the street, to lobby for abortion to be banned again etc

But it is indeed crazy to allow people to demonstrate right in front hospitals and clinics, to threaten doctors and patients, to demonize people and riled them up.

it can only generate violence

the way America is allowing people to be right against each other is crazy and much higher than in Europe

America is slipping down day by day.

All authoritarians regardless of ideology have a trait - use violence as a tool to suppress dissenting voices... freedom of expression

So, if anyone from left supports killing of people just because of their differing views on matters by giving justification that they are fascists then they are actually walking on the same path they advocate to be against.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

He clearly had to get years worth of therapy. The dude was a massive bigot and was excusing people dying for being gay or simply for the 2nd amendment to be upheld.

 

[Logiko]

All authoritarians regardless of ideology have a trait - use violence as a tool to suppress dissenting voices... freedom of expression

The system is already violent and I don't see you being mad when it kills people. There is absolutely nothing new.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

all this reminds me of Record of Ragnarok manga
Where Jack the ripper is introduced as this deranged, insane murderer and Lü Bu as the great leader beloved by his soldiers.
We all know who killed more people haha
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All authoritarians regardless of ideology have a trait - use violence as a tool to suppress dissenting voices... freedom of expression

Aka proto war.
Or do you think (civil) wars happen out of nowhere?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

The political thread really is the place where some users show their true colors.

That place is filled with so much toxicity and hatred.

The political thread is toxic because the normal.posters stay away from it.
Once normal people start using it, the culture will gradually shift

 

[Bullet]

The political thread really is the place where some users show their true colors.

That place is filled with so much toxicity and hatred.

It just makes the ignore list bigger when you take a peak
Unhinged vile people

 

[Logiko]

He clearly had to get years worth of therapy. The dude was a massive bigot and was excusing people dying for being gay or simply for the 2nd amendment to be upheld.

Maybe. But we must absolutely destroy this idea of a link between bad political behavior and the mental state the person. Because at the end of the day, it's people with real mental struggle and have to faith psychiatrization, who will face the consequences of the stigma. It's also depoliticizing.

The guy is not ill or anything. He was just a product of the capitalist and reactionnary system. Nothing really exceptionnal nor surprising.

 

[Uncle Van]

Even if you disagreed strongly with Kirk and think he was a fucking bastard, it should be normal to say that killing him was a serious crime, that the guy did the wrong thing, that it’s not like that at all that you fight against political ideas and yeah he was still a human with a family and children / child

Having no sympathy means you remove a bit the human aspect of your opponent and it can lead for a group to encourage / trivialize such acts.

that all things considered the guy who killed Kirk didn’t do such a bad thing

The problem is that political violence happens all the time in America, and people pick n' choose when it's bad depending on their political agenda. Because of simple disagreements, they use Charlie Kirk's death was a tool to push their political beliefs. One side says he is the embodiment of evil and had it coming, while the other says his death is indicative of leftists in general.

People will use anything they can to justify their beliefs and actions.

 

[NAMELESS]

The problem is that political violence happens all the time in America, and people pick n' choose when it's bad depending on their political agenda. Because of simple disagreements, they use Charlie Kirk's death was a tool to push their political beliefs. One side says he is the embodiment of evil and had it coming, while the other says his death is indicative of leftists in general.

People will use anything they can to justify their beliefs and actions.

Pretty sure gunning down Democratic politicians and prominent voices is seen in a bad light by other conservatives in America. Don't pretend conservatives endorse violence as much as the left.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Maybe. We must absolutely destroy this idea that bad behavior must be psychiatrized. Because at the end of the day, it's people with real mental struggle, who will face the consequences of the stigma. It's also depoliticizing.

The guy is not ill or anything. He was just a product of the capitalist and reactionnary system. Nothing really exceptionnal nor surprising.

At this point I don't know what the fuck I can say then.
If I say that I simply don't care for his death (I don't even think he deserved death I just don't care), I get flak for it
I say he should have been in an institution, I get flak for it
I say he deserves any type of punishment, I get flak for it
At this point who cares. Let's just keep letting horrible people like him and Trump run amuck because you're all too much of a pussy to stand on 10 toes with your beliefs and try to get these people out of a position of power.

 

[NAMELESS]

Maybe. But we must absolutely destroy this idea of a link between bad political behavior and the mental state the person. Because at the end of the day, it's people with real mental struggle and have to faith psychiatrization, who will face the consequences of the stigma. It's also depoliticizing.

The guy is not ill or anything. He was just a product of the capitalist and reactionnary system. Nothing really exceptionnal nor surprising.

Agreed, let's stop calling people we don't like mentally ill.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Agreed, let's stop calling people we don't like mentally ill.

So wishing death on gay people isn't a mentally ill thing?

 

[HerreraIsBack]

No one is saint . I think ideology level Lula is showing brave face he could have coward and accept Trump’s terms .

Like i said i have less knowledge what goes over in brasil but hopefully we dont want Trump’s friends in powers .

No one is saint but don't need to be corrupted.

Lula is stealing the retirement from old people. Not only nothing is gonna happen about it, no one will be arrested or the money won't be paid back, but it will come out from the taxes we pay the stolen money and people will still be stealing putting us in an endless cycle to pay the stealers.

Is that the ideology you defend? Steal from old people retirement?