remember, when I say "natural" I don't mean what we would do in a primitive setting out in the wild.

i meant natural as in, the essential aspects of a thing including what it's natural ends are. For example the nature of a pencil is that it's made of wood and lead, it's natural end is to write, to the degree it can do that is the degree that it's a quality pencil, a shittier pencil is one that can't do write well, etc.

this is called "teleology", everything in existance has its own teleology or "telos", this dictates what's good or bad for it

yes, it is natural for humans to do that to chickens. that is just an advanced way of fulfilling a natural human end to dominate animals for consumption
But it's not something we need, is it?
We do it purely for our own pleasure. I wouldn't consider it natural to torture animals for our own amusement (which goes beyond simply eating them, circuses "torture" animals too), yet we still do it.
If we're going to crack down on every single thing that can be considered "unnatural", we'll end up destroying a lot of things that make up our civilization. Not that I'd personally mind that, as I for one would actually like it if we never did things like fattening animals just so they can be "proper food", gambling, circuses, etc., but something tells me that despite you wanting to ban other "unnatural things" like homosexuality, you won't share that same sentiment for the things I've mentioned.
 
I did. And just it was used by oppressive capitalism doesn't mean it's an illusion.
Woops, you are right, I forgot my conclusion.

The point was to explain that Homosexuality was a creation of capitalism and patriarchy as in ... the category of homosexuality

Before capitalism, Sexual relationships between similar genders were not sign of identity marker but simple sexual behaviors. It's capitalism with the help of psychiatry that pathologize and categorized the sexual behavior of same gender sex.

As such, Homosexuality is not a real category, it's an oppressive category meant to put people in box to exclude them from the economic system.

Today, LGBTQI+ have appropriated legitimately this category, but it's possible that one day, people will not see sex between same genders as some identity marker like we do now with homosexuality. Homosexuality would therefore stop being an illusion of category and the word would disappear.


1.) A doctor tells a dying patient he will be OK. It maximizes happiness to the patient, but the patient is being denied the truth that he is owed
Only if the truth is that he won't be ok.
Lying is not always necessarily a bad thing. Again, that's why ethics matters mate.

2.) Two married adults let each other have an affair. This boosts their happiness, but it violates the fidelity of their marriage and makes marriage as an institution meaningless.
No, that makes the marriage as the institution YOU picture meaningless.

Those people created their own definition of the institution of mariage that was fitting FOR THEM. They were completely consensual and open. Which means that what you are describing is A FAR STRONGER relationship and MARIAGE than just a random person stuck in a loveless mariage because they are closeted or forced by their family.

Again, context matter. You really should learn about ethics.

Because your logic is just nonsensical. It's based on baseless logic, baseless reasonning and the absolute absence of substance.


3.) A small town is restless after a crime was committed. The mayor has an innocent man executed, and the town is at peace and happy again, collective happiness is maximized but an evil act was committed
No, an unethical act was commited, it's the simple case of the innocent being killed and to understand why it's bad and why it has nothing to do with any concept of good or bad:

Check my answer to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Murder became bad only when humans decided it's bad"
:whitepress:
> If you take a close system representing a normal society with normal basic behavior (rproduction, work, happyness etc.

> An experience on multiple tic

> You then add a random score from 1 to 10 to each person

> When the score is higher than a certain threashold, the person kill someone close, if not there is no kill.

> Look at the result, note the data and inscrease the threashold (for ex, you go from a 7 to a 9.99 to represent the absolute disdain of society for murder) and note the data again

You will see that the state of society completely improves with a higher threadshold (and therefore a disdain for the murder of a random person). You would probably see a raise of happyness, cooperation, survivability etc.)

Abslutely no concept of right and wrong, just basic mathematics, logic and survival. if you have the time and a programmer at disposition, try it, you will see.

Not murdering innocent is not related to something ideologically superior to us in term of good or bad, it's related to our material conditions of existence. Material conditions that automatically improve when we are not morons and do not kill random or innocent people around us.
 
No idgaf. I'm not an economist
Well you don't have to be an economist to know the relation between the feudal lord and the peasant, right?

This is the exact same thing except the production is based on owning capital, not on owning land.

After we talk about it, you can also look to see if any economist has any answer that debunks the idea that wage labor is exploitation.

Saying wage labor is exploitation is, in a capitalist context, the same as saying a feudal lord is exploiting the peasants that live on the land he owns, in a feudalist context.

It's really simple even if the name can sound complicated.
 
Only if the truth is that he won't be ok.
Lying is not always necessarily a bad thing
Lying is always wrong


Those people created their own definition of the institution of mariage that was fitting FOR THEM. They were completely consensual and open.
I can see why you hate dictionaries. As marriage is defined, spouses agreeing to cheat violates it because the definition of marriage is that it is closed off, not open.


No, an unethical act was commited, it's the simple case of the innocent being killed and to understand why it's bad and why it has nothing to do with any concept of good or bad:
An innocent man being executed isn't good or bad ya'll
:milaugh:

Holy shit you're crazy
 
But it's not something we need, is it?
We do it purely for our own pleasure.
farming animals to eat isn't something we need? i would argue it does and every country would starve if we didn't

wouldn't consider it natural to torture animals for our own amusement (which goes beyond simply eating them, circuses "torture" animals too), yet we still do it.
yes, you can easily argue circuses are immoral and should be banned because they are needless animal torture


If we're going to crack down on every single thing that can be considered "unnatural", we'll end up destroying a lot of things that make up our civilization. Not that I'd personally mind that, as I for one would actually like it if we never did things like fattening animals just so they can be "proper food", gambling, circuses, etc., but something tells me that despite you wanting to ban other "unnatural things" like homosexuality, you won't share that same sentiment for the things I've mentioned.
well not every vice needs to be (or is capable on the state level) of being banned. every vice should be discouraged by society, but vices that cause public scandal such as an unnatural "marriages" (if they are not natural, they aren't marriage at all) like incestuous or homosexual ones should be banned

if your argument is that other public vices like gambling and circuses should be banned going by this same logic...sure, I can agree with that
 
farming animals to eat isn't something we need? i would argue it does and every country would starve if we didn't
There are many diseases that can end up lead to death of people specially babies and kids because the lack of meat/chicken/fish ingestion. I'm not so sure about grown up adults but I heard many take supplements that are made of animals and hide that fact from their audience, talking about influencers.

yes, you can easily argue circuses are immoral and should be banned because they are needless animal torture
Circus is much more than just animal torture. Ban the animal torture not circus as a whole.

well not every vice needs to be (or is capable on the state level) of being banned. every vice should be discouraged by society, but vices that cause public scandal such as an unnatural "marriages" (if they are not natural, they aren't marriage at all) like incestuous or homosexual ones should be banned

if your argument is that other public vices like gambling and circuses should be banned going by this same logic...sure, I can agree with that
People don't even understand what natural means. It means common. It is natural (common) for men to marry women. It is natural (common) for white to marry white. So by your logic we should ban interracial marriage too.
 
CLear and unbiased and uncensored information is not a priviledge, it's a fundamental right. Not just of the US constitution, but of the human kind in general.
im with you on this, and i would be interested whether that shit about "inviting reporters" is legit and legal or whether she is talking out of her ass
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Trump hasn't even finished his 1st year of his 2nd term. I can't even imagine what America will be like the next year, never mind the following 2 and god knows what will happen after that.
the US is screwed big time.
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clearly they don't see him as all that bad. The fact that they did proves my point that he isn't all that extreme if so many LGBT even allign with him
reasons for voting are so multifactorial that this is honestly intellectually lazy and ridiculous
 
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CoC: Color of Clowns

Super Sulong Wanda in Wano Act 4
Aren't you the guy who believes in hollow earth and ancient aliens?
Yeah and that's why. Billions of years of existence, and you want to tell me humans are the pinnacle of evolution.

This is why the Greeks were smarter than us.
They realized how fallible their senses were. People always make it into some big thing. And i'm like, so, if I don't believe in ancient aliens, i'm supposed to believe that humans are the most advanced species this planet has produced in billions of years of life, and that we have yet to find another species more advanced than us. Or we're too stupid to actually be able to see other species the same way we can't see bacteria that are too small for us to see, because we see what .0035% of the electromagnetic light spectrum.

The spiritual entities described in religion do exist. I stopped listening to randos on the internet and decided to listen to people who actually put the work in through history. If people had bothered to listen to the common talking points, our ancestors were bringing up we could have escaped this crap a long time ago What you believe is up to you, you've accused me of completely baseless bullshit in the past., so I really don't give a crap about your opinion when it comes to this stuff, you can talk about not believing in conspiracy theories when you believe everyone is an alt lol.

This planet is not run by us, and we are far from the smartest species on it. I've yet to see a single anthropologist describe how a bunch of cultures that were seemingly disconnected by oceans, and this amount of space all managed to come up with the exact same type of stories describing sky people invading in ships. You put way too much faith in recorded an official history, despite knowing the people that actually produce it and profit off of it.

Hollow earth is fun because flat earth Is all disinfo info for it. Cat's out of the bag now though. The recent drone flap in denmark has been interesting. They'll swear to you that ufos aren't real and then when you ask for footage of the shit that shuts down airports, they'll show you some like grainy ass footage of a few moving lights and then tell you that you're crazy for wanting an actual explanation.

A lot of it isn't really aliens, though it's just advanced species that aren't us, that also live on the planet. The solar system is way more populated than people think though, but due to a lot of bad actors in it, people have to be kind of quiet about it.

The most interesting thing is that these incidents are often tied to nuclear sites. A lot of the UFO phenomena is spiritual, and it's more or less entities that can alter reality to such an extent. I think nukes are one of the few things that could damage some of them, and they also know how damaging the planet in general.

What most people would call alien tech that we're seeing here is just reverse engineered technology from the ancient civilization that we know as atlantis. But you'll tell me I'm crazy for thinking Atlantis exists when oh wow how many historians who aren't you said it did? Isn't that interesting. The secret societies that run these countries are actually ruled by cults that survived the fall of atlantis and hoarded the tech and knowledge to try to build the world back in their image after the natural disasters that destroyed the empire. There were obviously good people that also survived and tried to spread knowledge after the younger dryas.

If people want the truth, they need an open mind, honest heart, and to connect to nature through meditation. And listen to native elders, those people know their shit.
 
Trans people do not change their gender
yeah transgenderism isnt about changing genders @RyoQ . people just are a gender. and if you see people "changing between genders" by using a different word to describe it, that really just means that the understanding of said gender changed. What transgender people are changing (if anything) are physical attributes.

at best you can maybe point to people who are just pretending to grift or whatever, but that would need some evidence.
 
yeah transgenderism isnt about changing genders @RyoQ . people just are a gender. and if you see people "changing between genders" by using a different word to describe it, that really just means that the understanding of said gender changed. What transgender people are changing (if anything) are physical attributes
this is something advocates of transgender say, but don't really mean. people say their gender isn't changing, but then they go and get hormonal treatment, change their name and how they dress
:specialmeh:
 
one is that one can change their gender/sex
there really is only a very small fraction in the pro-lgbtq community that thinks one can change their sex. so yeah no, thats not really a thought we need to consider.
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I will reiterate that I am on the far-right and oppose homosexuality/gay marriage being legal.
where are you from?
 
there really is only a very small fraction in the pro-lgbtq community that thinks one can change their sex. so yeah no, thats not really a thought we need to consider.
you think only a small percent of transgenders and transgender defenders support transitioning?

also, it's not only sex changes, transgenders change their physical outward appearance (such as their clothes, their names) which doesn't make sense if we are to believe nothing changes or that gender is not something bodily
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where are you from?
America. Also why did you post that image of Trump endorsing Gays for Trump? do you also agree he is rather liberal on gay marriage?
 
It's either you accept their existence and their right to exist, or you are on the side of their oppressor. There is no "I'm for gay but F Trans people" . If you against the second you are ALSO against the first, no matter what you say, systematically, you will harm them the same way.
this is fucking bullshit though because if we are real honest, the T doesnt belong with the LGB, because those represent sexual orientations and gender identity is a completely different concept. there are many people who support the LGB but not the T, even inside the community itself.
 
bUt tRuMp dIdN'T StArT AnY WaRs, HuRr dUrR! jUsT IgNoRe wHaT He's dOiNg tO HiS OwN CoUnTrY ThAt hE LoVeS So mUcH AnD WhAt hE WaNtS To dO To gAzA ToO!


With all these shootings and the Jan 6 insurrection and such, the brownshirts are doing their job for real.

Trump hasn't even finished his 1st year of his 2nd term. I can't even imagine what America will be like the next year, never mind the following 2 and god knows what will happen after that. And the UK is trying to imitate the USA even harder and Americanise their politics and the rest of country too, when "British Nationalists" are ironically glazing America too.

Even my own clownfoolery and insanity doesn't even pale in comparison to this, it's way beyond that in difference. It's like comparing a single planet to the scale of the entire universe at least. As much as I hate myself, I know I will never be remotely as scummy as Trump and his narcissistic, inhumane cult of murderers and actual terrorrists.

He's exactly the kind of monster that creative media has been satirising as megalomaniacal villains for decades now and trying to warn us all about, but dictators have existed and still exist en masse in the world ofc, but now it's in the worst place possible in the world too.

Hell hath no wrath like a narcissisist scorned.
It's funny how you people are never bothered about criminals killing civilians.
 
couple of things wrong with this entire take of yours.

first, appealing to nature is fallacious. but even if that wasnt the case and we take your natural law bs at face value, i hate to break it to you, but homosexuality is not unnatural by any means. it occurs in many different groups of animals. Clearly it occurs in humans, and it occurs in the closest relatives of humans, chimps and bonobos.

and fun fact: there are species that can change their sex. not us though
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So gay marriage could be outlawed entirely distinct from Christian observance. Even if I was not Christian I would still oppose it like I oppose other natural evils such as murder, incest, theft, things like that
theft is very natural as well. sadly rape also is very natural, very present in a ridiculous amount of animal groups
 
couple of things wrong with this entire take of yours.

first, appealing to nature is fallacious. but even if that wasnt the case and we take your natural law bs at face value, i hate to break it to you, but homosexuality is not unnatural by any means. it occurs in many different groups of animals. Clearly it occurs in humans, and it occurs in the closest relatives of humans, chimps and bonobos.

and fun fact: there are species that can change their sex. not us though
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theft is very natural as well. sadly rape also is very natural, very present in a ridiculous amount of animal groups
Like I replied to him, natural in this case means common.
 
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