Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1165 Spoilers Discussion

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Dragon777

‎
#4,528
#4,528
HeroesNZ said:
There's honestly very little argument against it, the sky split deads their entire point.

Kaido and BM split the sky in base yet GV WB and Roger couldn't do the same, even though they've done it in their prime and in the highest level clash we've seen thus far.

DR Xebec vs GV WB didn't split the sky either despite being a serious clash. Meanwhile, old, life support WB splits the sky vs Shanks and Kaido with BM etc...

Arguing that GV characters bar Xebec are in their prime is genuine insanity atp.
Click to expand...
And they say I am coping when I point out some people really think 1026 Luffy > Xebec, Roger, Garp, etc.
 
HA001

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
‎
#4,533
#4,533

Stand proud king.
You will stand in the annuls of swordsmanship as its mightiest general.
The one who ended a decade plus long war.
The one who exposed the king of the pirates
And odas self insert
Even giving us another top tier swordsman giant as his equal.
For it to be bbs dad is genuinly poetic justice.
In his honour swords will be raised when the time comes
 
M

MonsterKaido

‎
#4,534
#4,534
Nice — that summary looks like the fan translation/spoiler summary of One Piece chapter 1165, which is indeed the God Valley climax everyone’s been waiting for.
Now that you’ve shared the content (and I’m not quoting the spoiler source itself), we can absolutely discuss what this means in terms of power portrayal, Haki hierarchy, and character scaling.
Let’s break down what these events suggest canonically if this chapter is accurate:
⚔️ 1. Roger and Garp vs Rocks — Equal Clash with Sky Split
The sky splitting and Supreme King Haki waves confirm all three (Roger, Garp, Rocks) are top-tier Conquerors — likely on the same base level as Kaido, Whitebeard, and Shanks in their prime.
The fact that Rocks’ Haki cancels out both Roger and Garp’s individual blows means:
Rocks = a monster whose raw Haki output exceeds even Roger’s or Garp’s individually.​
That makes Rocks possibly the first true “King” of Haki before Roger’s era.
💥 2. The Combined Attack — “Hinokagutsuchi no Ace” + “Infinitum Explosion”
This combo is fascinating.
  • “Hinokagutsuchi” (a Shinto fire god) implies Roger’s attack is Haki so intense it manifests like flame — similar to what Shanks or Kaido’s supreme CoC coating can do.
  • “Infinitum Explosion” shows Garp’s physical might amplified by his own Supreme Haki burst.
Them combining their Haki — pouring all of it together — mirrors Luffy’s final battle concept with Kaido (merging willpower and technique into one defining blow).
So, in lore, this might be:
The original “world-shaking” attack that ended the Rocks Era — the prototype of what Luffy later achieves through Gear 5 and Supreme Haki mastery.​
🧭 3. Implications for Power Scaling
Character Haki Portrayal Result/Takeaway Rocks D. XebecHis Supreme King Haki can negate Roger & Garp’s CoC individually.Likely > Roger or Garp individually in raw Haki control.Roger“Hinokagutsuchi no Ace” = final concentrated CoC strike, probably his strongest attack pre-Pirate King era.Equal to Garp when combined. Slightly below Rocks in pure Haki might.Garp“Infinitum Explosion” mirrors “Galaxy Impact” from his later feats.Possibly physically the strongest human alive at the time.Kaido (comparison)His Flame Bagua and Awakening likely surpass either Roger or Garp’s solo output but not necessarily their combined might.So Kaido ≈ Rocks in “creature-like destructive Haki.”
Essentially:
Rocks (Haki Monster) ≥ Kaido (Strongest Creature) > Roger ≈ Garp (Legendary Duo).​
🌀 4. Narrative Message
Oda’s pattern is clear:
  • Rocks = embodiment of chaotic, destructive ambition.
  • Roger + Garp = willpower + justice, cooperation to counter pure chaos.
  • Their final attack being a fusion of wills represents the end of the old era and birth of the age of balance, which would later collapse with Roger’s death and Kaido’s rise.
✅ Final Interpretation (based on your summary):
  • Rocks had superior raw Haki compared to either Roger or Garp individually.
  • Roger and Garp together matched and defeated him through unity of will — not superiority of strength.
  • It places Rocks and Kaido as the apex of “raw might,” and Roger and Garp as the apex of “willpower and mastery.”
Would you like me to compare Rocks’ Haki in this chapter to Kaido’s “Flame Bagua” Haki state, to see who actually stands higher based on feats and portrayal?

You said:
compare roger to Kaido based on above in power level.

ChatGPT said:
Good — now that we have chapter 1165 context (Roger and Garp vs Rocks) and what we know about Kaido’s full power from Wano, we can make a careful, lore-consistent comparison between Roger and Kaido in terms of actual combat power.
⚔️ 1. Base Power & Durability
Trait Roger Kaido Physical powerExtremely strong but human-level physiology; relies entirely on Haki and swordsmanship.Possesses near-immortal durability as a Mythical Zoan. Can tank mountain-busting blows with minimal damage.EnduranceExceptional stamina (fought Whitebeard for days), but still mortal.Fights continuously for hours, can be knocked out only by overwhelming internal Haki (Luffy Gear 5).✅ Advantage: Kaido — his body itself is a weapon and shield far beyond any human’s.
⚡ 2. Haki Quality & Mastery
Type Roger Kaido Armament (Busoshoku)Peak-tier; his sword attacks coat with internal destruction Haki.Mastery so high it fuses with flames in Flame Bagua form — an elemental manifestation of CoC + CoA.Conqueror’s (Haoshoku)One of the few able to coat attacks; his “Hinokagutsuchi no Ace” shows maximum concentration.Uses Conqueror’s coating constantly; “Thunder Bagua” and “Flame Bagua” are infused with it.Observation (Kenbunshoku)High but not highlighted; relies more on presence and instinct.Adept; predicts attacks, senses killing intent easily.✅ Advantage: Slightly Kaido — chapter 1165 implies even Rocks’ Haki exceeded Roger’s, and Kaido’s is often compared to Rocks.
🔥 3. Attack Potency
  • Roger: “Hinokagutsuchi no Ace” = peak Haki slash capable of matching Rocks’ defenses only when combined with Garp’s power.
  • Kaido: “Flame Bagua” = creates apocalyptic shockwaves; melts Onigashima’s core rocks; required Gear 5’s “Bajrang Gun” (a literal continent-buster) to beat.
✅ Advantage: Kaido — greater destructive output and AoE.
🧭 4. Haki vs Haki Interaction
  • In 1165, Rocks’ Haki cancels both Roger’s and Garp’s until they merge their CoC together.
  • Kaido in Wano negated Luffy’s advanced CoC multiple times and still overwhelmed him until Gear 5.
That places Kaido ≈ Rocks in raw Haki force.
If Rocks > Roger (individually), and Kaido ≈ Rocks → Kaido > Roger in Haki intensity.
🌊 5. Narrative & Symbolic Strength
  • Roger: Symbol of freedom, will, and the spirit that birthed the Great Pirate Era.
  • Kaido: Embodiment of indestructible strength — the “Strongest Creature.”
    Oda separates legacy from raw might.
Roger = Greatest.
Kaido = Strongest.​
✅ Final Power-Level Summary
Category Winner Physical strength & durabilityKaidoRaw destructive powerKaidoHaki mastery (overall)KaidoSkill, experience, leadershipRogerWillpower & narrative supremacyRogerOne-on-one combat result (pure fight)Kaido wins, but not easily — 55-45 edge
Verdict
Kaido stands above Roger in raw combat performance and Haki output,
but Roger’s will and symbolic “greatness” remain unmatched.​
So if both fought at their peaks:
  • Kaido would likely overpower Roger after a long, brutal battle.
  • Roger would still be the man Kaido could never “surpass in spirit.”
Would you like me to show how a Roger vs Kaido battle would play out blow-by-blow, based on each attack type and Haki clash outcome?

@SkySanji @Hanzo hattori @Levi @The DevilMaster @nik87 @DarkestKnightofSpoilers
 
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