Powers & Abilities Haki can negate almost any df ability - in theory

[zenox]

http://imgur.com/a/d58dJ1S

roger was talking abt how he should be capable of hurting xebec cause he was using haki and haki doesnt yield to devil fruits .

so u can just negate the df user's defense with ur ability but in order to do that -

http://imgur.com/a/n3qBf1Z

u need superior haki to get past his haki defense first .

luffy needed internal destruction to get around kaido's tough scales but if someone has way stronger haki than kaido then he can simply hurt him with regular attacks ( the same might go for logias )

prob the same goes for imu too , in order to fully negate his immortality ,
u need to completely penetrate his coc defense , otherwise his coc defense will cushion ur haki attack and u would be unable to negate his immortality .
imu's base set is from a df ability too

xebec was able to partially resist his domi-reverse

http://imgur.com/a/h5dHACz

tho he lost his state of mind when imu talked abt herald

so in conclusion , u need 2 things in a single attack against devil fruit users -
1. penetrate their haki defense ( pretty tough if the df user is a supreme king )
2. hit them with haki strong enough to negate their df ability

it can either be regular attack or a momentarily haki burst like roger and garp had against Dr xebec .

xebec was able to hurt garling cuz his haki is way stronger than garling's haki defense but imu's haki defense is on another level so he was unable to get past imu's immortality

http://imgur.com/a/l8H2pzP

u just gotta hope oda will be consistent with this power system , he will not be

we can joke how the ultimate solution to a battle would be " hurr durr stronger haki "
but thats literally how its been going for the past 2 events now

egghead's saviour was a simple haki blast from joyboy and god valley's saviour was a huge mass of strong haki attack

http://imgur.com/a/iCXEIgQ

and it looks like elbaf might be concluded with haki too

http://imgur.com/a/43Ljel8

 

[MonochromeYoru]

In conclusion

If my haki stronger than yours, I win

Such nuance. Amazing power system

 

[park_min young]

Roger didn’t really say anything new aside from confirming that CoC defense exists, which actually upscales Law’s awakening even more btw since it completely bypasses Big Mom’s CoC coating.

He was referring to devil fruit based defenses like Kaido’s scales or logia intangibility being countered by armament. That’s why Roger was wondering what kind of ability was preventing his attacks from doing any damage, it turned out to be just strong CoC defense. The same logic applies to Luffy’s aCoA-only hits against Kaido being shallow since Kaido’s defense stacks both his devil fruit durability and CoC coating.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

This is also why Vista and Marco didn’t damage Akainu despite making contact on him with haki

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Roger didn’t really say anything new aside from confirming that CoC defense exists, which actually upscales Law’s awakening even more btw since it completely bypasses Big Mom’s CoC coating.

He was referring to devil fruit based defenses like Kaido’s scales or logia intangibility being countered by armament. That’s why Roger was wondering what kind of ability was preventing his attacks from doing any damage, it turned out to be just strong CoC defense. The same logic applies to Luffy’s aCoA-only hits against Kaido being shallow since Kaido’s defense stacks both his devil fruit durability and CoC coating.

Neither BM nor Kaido were coating themselves in CoC for defense.

Nothing upscales Law here.

 

[HA001]

In conclusion

If my haki stronger than yours, I win

Such nuance. Amazing power system

Zoro vs pica

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

See @ZenZu , I used to tell you CoC is exactly like CoA, only a multiplier 😂 You believe me now?

Zoro vs pica

lol Zoro vs Pica was the first thing that came to my mind too

 

[Welkin]

There are clear exceptions to this though

I don’t really understand the logic behind it but it seems like certain fruit abilities/fruits entirely are exempt from this

For example, as far as we know no amount of haki makes you completely immune to Boa’s ability

If you get hit you’re fucked

Big Mom and Kaido were noted to have “passive” haki barriers that negated a chunk of Law’s kit but not all of it

Shit, Luffy should have much stronger haki than Kizaru but if anything it’s almost like Kizaru is the one that negated Luffy’s abilities since they did so little damage

I’m hoping for an explanation on this but it doesn’t really seem like we’ll ever get one

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Zoro vs pica

Law vs Vergo

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

There are clear exceptions to this though

I don’t really understand the logic behind it but it seems like certain fruit abilities/fruits entirely are exempt from this

For example, as far as we know no amount of haki makes you completely immune to Boa’s ability

If you get hit you’re fucked

Big Mom and Kaido were noted to have “passive” haki barriers that negated a chunk of Law’s kit but not all of it

Shit, Luffy should have much stronger haki than Kizaru but if anything it’s almost like Kizaru is the one that negated Luffy’s abilities since they did so little damage

I’m hoping for an explanation on this but it doesn’t really seem like we’ll ever get one

DFs have their own level of intensity/output.

Simply put, the stronger the DF attack is, the more haki you need to negate it.

That’s why BM/Kaido can fully negate shambles but not awakened attacks from Law.

In Kizaru’s case light beams have high output at base (why they were afraid of seraphim: getting hit by them), hence why Sanji dispersing one completely was a big deal.

 

[HA001]

Law vs Vergo

Stick to your ass grape
Law has no business with haki

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

DFs have their own level of intensity/output.

Simply put, the stronger the DF attack is, the more haki you need to negate it.

That’s why BM/Kaido can fully negate shambles but not awakened attacks from Law.

In Kizaru’s case light beams have high output at base (why they were afraid of seraphim: getting hit by them), hence why Sanji dispersing one completely was a big deal.

I feel like it’s kind of obvious that something like the jacket fruit would be easier to counter with haki than Gura quakes

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Law vs Vergo

Law had DF power + haki against Vergo, just like Aokiji had against Garp

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

http://imgur.com/a/d58dJ1S

roger was talking abt how he should be capable of hurting xebec cause he was using haki and haki doesnt yield to devil fruits .

so u can just negate the df user's defense with ur ability but in order to do that -

http://imgur.com/a/n3qBf1Z

u need superior haki to get past his haki defense first .

luffy needed internal destruction to get around kaido's tough scales but if someone has way stronger haki than kaido then he can simply hurt him with regular attacks ( the same might go for logias )

prob the same goes for imu too , in order to fully negate his immortality ,
u need to completely penetrate his coc defense , otherwise his coc defense will cushion ur haki attack and u would be unable to negate his immortality .
imu's base set is from a df ability too

xebec was able to partially resist his domi-reverse

http://imgur.com/a/h5dHACz

tho he lost his state of mind when imu talked abt herald

so in conclusion , u need 2 things in a single attack against devil fruit users -
1. penetrate their haki defense ( pretty tough if the df user is a supreme king )
2. hit them with haki strong enough to negate their df ability

it can either be regular attack or a momentarily haki burst like roger and garp had against Dr xebec .

xebec was able to hurt garling cuz his haki is way stronger than garling's haki defense but imu's haki defense is on another level so he was unable to get past imu's immortality

http://imgur.com/a/l8H2pzP

u just gotta hope oda will be consistent with this power system , he will not be

we can joke how the ultimate solution to a battle would be " hurr durr stronger haki "
but thats literally how its been going for the past 2 events now

egghead's saviour was a simple haki blast from joyboy and god valley's saviour was a huge mass of strong haki attack

http://imgur.com/a/iCXEIgQ

and it looks like elbaf might be concluded with haki too

http://imgur.com/a/43Ljel8

Devil fruits have been useless since wano lol this isn't anything new

"I am stronger and have more will than you hence I win the fight" is the new fighting system. No creativity. No nuance. No complexity. No consistency. No rules. Just straight up plot convenience that this piece of shit scumbag author pulls out of his ass whenever he wants it.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Stick to your ass grape
Law has no business with haki

he's literally done what zolo did before zolo
he beat the superior doffy commander

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

There are clear exceptions to this though

I don’t really understand the logic behind it but it seems like certain fruit abilities/fruits entirely are exempt from this

For example, as far as we know no amount of haki makes you completely immune to Boa’s ability

If you get hit you’re fucked

Big Mom and Kaido were noted to have “passive” haki barriers that negated a chunk of Law’s kit but not all of it

Shit, Luffy should have much stronger haki than Kizaru but if anything it’s almost like Kizaru is the one that negated Luffy’s abilities since they did so little damage

I’m hoping for an explanation on this but it doesn’t really seem like we’ll ever get one

DFs have their own level of intensity/output.

Simply put, the stronger the DF attack is, the more haki you need to negate it.

That’s why BM/Kaido can fully negate shambles but not awakened attacks from Law.

In Kizaru’s case light beams have high output at base (why they were afraid of seraphim: getting hit by them), hence why Sanji dispersing one completely was a big deal.

It's literally plot. Oda can't make devil fruits useless as they're the DNA of the series but he also has to justify fruitless top tiers existence considering how broken fruits can get so this is why haki can sometimes cancel DF moves, and sometimes it can't.

 

[MonochromeYoru]

Law had DF power + haki against Vergo, just like Aokiji had against Garp

which is in topic of this thread

df + haki seems to be the route oda is going. with goofy having godfruit and best haki

 

[Blackbeard]

At the end of the day DF Joy Boy folds DFless Joy Boy.

Haki is a booster for everything, blades, guns, DFs, muscles.

It's all about having comparable Haki to your opponent, once that clicks, your DF is an actual threat.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

It's literally plot. Oda can't make devil fruits useless as they're the DNA of the series but he also has to justify fruitless top tiers existence considering how broken fruits can get so this is why haki can sometimes cancel DF moves, and sometimes it can't.

But notice that Garp can negate a deep freeze from Kuzan with haki while Cracker and Jozu can’t?

Like some DF attacks are stronger than others and thus you’re going to need more haki to deal with them. Kuzan’s freezes are not imbued with haki as far as we can tell.

Like there’s no way anyone here thinks Vergo could cancel Gura Gura quakes even if they’re not imbued with haki.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Just straight up plot convenience that this piece of shit scumbag author pulls out of his ass whenever he wants it.

Yes, everything is in this manga.
Who will have CoC? No logic, whoever Oda wants to give.
Who is a swordsman? Doesnt matter if someone fights with sword or not, Oda just decides.
Its fucking annoying and we are a bunch of clowns reading this garbage.

df + haki seems to be the route oda is going. with goofy having godfruit and best haki

Nah, Oda will go haki vs DF route. BB will negate Lolfy's fruit - Lolfy has to win with haki. Oda's message will be: willpower > artificial power