Future Events When Sanji unlocks Conqueror's Haki, would that affect people's opinions on Sanji's character?

Thoughts?


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No worries, I could see after my reply that other Sanji fans brought up similar points and I get it can be wearing to debate with many people at once.

Sanji never gave up on his dream, I don't see it that way. He simply sacrificed his life, big difference. The fact he didn't sacrifice himself physically, doesn't mean it wasn't a sacrifice of his life. It wasn't about abandoning his dream, it was about doing a selfless act so the people he cared about could keep living/fulfill their own dreams. That was the whole point of WCI, showing his kindness and selflessness. He never claimed or implied that finding All Blue was too hard or anything like that, it wasn't about his dream per se.

What Luffy did for him wasn't meant to show Sanji lacked resolve compared to him, it only showed Luffy wouldn't leave his friends behind, no matter what.
I agree that his dream wasn't exactly the point, because his captors didn't know or care about it anyway. What I mean is meeting an obstruction and then making a decision with the implication of yielding. I think that makes him unlike the others.
I think it's legit amazing that you are gonna insist on that.
Whatever helps you to sleep at night, I guess.
:hapnoel:
List the things he was made to do against his will, tell me who beat him into submission, and explain why being a literal conqueror, a warrior king, is the same as being one of several members of a pirate crew.
 
Not the question. Which one of them had nothing to live for? Did Ace give up on WB becoming the PK? Did he lose interest in Wano or state he'd return? Did Oden give up on saving Wano? Has Gaban given up on saving Elbaf despite the hostages? Has Garp given up on saving Marines? Has Zoro given up on becoming the best or making Luffy PK? Rocks wanted them to kill him when he was possessed, did he stop caring about the survival of his son?

I don't actually care what randoms on a Japanese comic book think about me. That's not why I post lol.

He did have the upper hand: nothing in the manga tells us that Rocks would have been wrong to believe that Harald on his side couldn't prevail. The endgame characters all understand that the strength of Elbaf is a factor in the final battle.

Harald was unfortunately a very bad judge of the long game, but that describes most characters in the series. If you want Sanji to measure up, you have to realize that the people who captured him had no actual interest in what he has to offer. Judge left without even understanding it.
Dying is literally the same thing lmao yes Ace gave up making WB PK when he chose saving Luffy over that dream
 
Regardless of your opinion I don't really see the point of prolonging this

Both sides aren't gonna change their stance on it so what's the point in arguing. You're all just talking in circles

Might as well wait to see the rest of Elbaf and see how it pans out
Well, that's discussing any story before it finishes. And even when it does finish you'll have view points that some will swear goes against the reality of the writer. Oh well lol, guess it's bragging rights in the future or something
 
Well, that's discussing any story before it finishes. And even when it does finish you'll have view points that some will swear goes against the reality of the writer. Oh well lol, guess it's bragging rights in the future or something
Theorizing and all that I understand but this really isn’t even that

You’re both arguing over the way you interpret a character’s actions/personality

They can’t force you to see their POV and you can’t force them to see yours

Its just one of those “agree to disagree” situations

:ShishioIsBack:
 
Dying is literally the same thing lmao yes Ace gave up making WB PK when he chose saving Luffy over that dream
Dying is not giving up. I guess I can see how the nuance is lost, especially when you then see Luffy accepting his fate in Logue Town, Oden, etc. Sanji's dreams never became impossible to him, but he accepted that he wouldn't see them (All Blue and told Luffy to go without him to be specific).
 
Dying is not giving up. I guess I can see how the nuance is lost, especially when you then see Luffy accepting his fate in Logue Town, Oden, etc. Sanji's dreams never became impossible to him, but he accepted that he wouldn't see them (All Blue and told Luffy to go without him to be specific).
Dying is giving up? Dying for a dream that is not yours is definition of giving up on your dream for something else lmao
 

Doggo

Talent is something you make bloom.

List the things he was made to do against his will, tell me who beat him into submission, and explain why being a literal conqueror, a warrior king, is the same as being one of several members of a pirate crew.
You questioned Sanji getting it because he was too much subservient due to the stussy dog thing.
I told you that "subservient" thing is BS as Harald, a coc user, willingly offered himself to become WG's S-L-A-V-E in order to achieve his goal.

You then started to come up with a bunch of other traits for Harald as if I was saying Sanji=Harald, when I just pointed out your "subservient" argument is BS when multiple times in the story coc characters acted in "non-dominant" ways.

Luffy specifically in sabaody bowing down to Boa and asking to de-stone the other chicks was pointed out as an unusual thing for someone with coc to do by the old lady.

Roger begged WB and Oden for Oden to join his crew and help him.

Shanks let the mountain bozo shit on him because there wasn't anything relevant to fight over.
etc.

Throughout the entire story there have been coc users that completely break the narrative of what this retarded fandom deems "coc worthy".

Whether or not you are capable of seeing that, it's up to you.
:pepegg:
 
Theorizing and all that I understand but this really isn’t even that

You’re both arguing over the way you interpret a character’s actions/personality

They can’t force you to see their POV and you can’t force them to see yours

Its just one of those “agree to disagree” situations

:ShishioIsBack:
Again though, I don't see how this thread is different from countless others in that way. I've also even stated that I don't care if Sanji has CoC. I don't put it past Oda and I don't think it scratches the top ten of his bad ideas. I just know why I don't think it should happen.
 



I agree that his dream wasn't exactly the point, because his captors didn't know or care about it anyway. What I mean is meeting an obstruction and then making a decision with the implication of yielding. I think that makes him unlike the others.
That's pretty much what Oden did when he danced naked in the streets for 5 years. It's not yielding as much as it is putting other people's lives above their own.
 
Dying is giving up? Dying for a dream that is not yours is definition of giving up on your dream for something else lmao
No, especially not if those dreams aren't mutually exclusive.

Zoro would die before living in a world where he doesn't help Luffy become PK, and he'd even die before letting Sanjie die. Sanji would die before letting someone harm Nami... except he could've been 50 years old married to Pudding as a Charlotte slave while Nami was getting reamed by Charloss.
 
No, especially not if those dreams aren't mutually exclusive.

Zoro would die before living in a world where he doesn't help Luffy become PK, and he'd even die before letting Sanjie die. Sanji would die before letting someone harm Nami... except he could've been 50 years old married to Pudding as a Charlotte slave while Nami was getting reamed by Charloss.
And what about Harald sacrificing himself to a lifetime of servitude in order to clear Elbafs crimes?

Sacrificing your life is sacrificing your life. Doesn’t matter if you’re dead or imprisoned.
 

Doggo

Talent is something you make bloom.
No, especially not if those dreams aren't mutually exclusive.

Zoro would die before living in a world where he doesn't help Luffy become PK, and he'd even die before letting Sanjie die. Sanji would die before letting someone harm Nami... except he could've been 50 years old married to Pudding as a Charlotte slave while Nami was getting reamed by Charloss.
WHAT EVEN IS THIS ARGUMENT?
:lulz:
 
You questioned Sanji getting it because he was too much subservient due to the stussy dog thing.
I told you that "subservient" thing is BS as Harald, a coc user, willingly offered himself to become WG's S-L-A-V-E in order to achieve his goal.

You then started to come up with a bunch of other traits for Harald as if I was saying Sanji=Harald, when I just pointed out your "subservient" argument is BS when multiple times in the story coc characters acted in "non-dominant" ways.

Luffy specifically in sabaody bowing down to Boa and asking to de-stone the other chicks was pointed out as an unusual thing for someone with coc to do by the old lady.

Roger begged WB and Oden for Oden to join his crew and help him.

Shanks let the mountain bozo shit on him because there wasn't anything relevant to fight over.
etc.

Throughout the entire story there have been coc users that completely break the narrative of what this retarded fandom deems "coc worthy".

Whether or not you are capable of seeing that, it's up to you.
:pepegg:
It would be moving goalposts if adding to what I said contradicted what I had said as it was, but since I'm responding so much I figured it's easier to follow up than go back and edit lol.

Sanji simps for any woman, and no, that's not the same as a man offering himself with a specific goal in mind. He didn't just go around offering himself to anyone, and if they wanted him to be a slave without any promises for his people it wouldn't have worked.
That's pretty much what Oden did when he danced naked in the streets for 5 years. It's not yielding as much as it is putting other people's lives above their own.
He danced for five years under the impression that it would lead to his goal. Again, not a bright character or one I really like, but this is still different from yielding. When Oden found out they played him, he didn't sit down and cry about it
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Zoro would’ve let Luffy die if the offer was a lifetime in impel down or Luffys life
:shocked:
Luffy can take care of himself, he's considered more powerful than Zoro. So no, that doesn't line up with Sanji and Nami.

Believing also that Zoro would surrender without taking the effort to free himself is equally dubious. We already saw Shiki cut his legs off to break free, and we've seen Zoro try to do the same when trapped. You think Zoro would actually accept a lifetime?
 
YES. EXACTLY. THAT'S JUST A GAG.
You are ALMOST there.
ALMOST.
I believe in you.
:joker:
It's not just a gag, unless you consider Sanji just a gag. There's no point in the series where Sanji would decide that since no one is there to fight for him, he'd fight a woman to save himself.
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Yet our boy has rejected more women than any other member of the crew
:cryabit:
Sanji cried when he found out that he spent two years with transvestites while Luffy had the attention of Hancock.

The fact that the other males are essentially asexual means that such things are irrelevant to them, so nothing to flex
 
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