General & Others Has Sanji been more relevant than Zoro Post Timeskip?
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Zoro had significant personal growth pre-skip. He was a lone wolf that found his pack, gradually opening up and finding meaning in living beyond his ambition. With his crew, he found cause and people worthy of giving his life to, and even sacrificing his pride if necessary. He had a massive role to play in keeping Luffy in line, and their heads still attached to their necks by extension.
To some degree, Zoro still does that last part, but I would say in a diminished and far less interesting capacity.
Not only did he not get any meaningful setup post skip, a lot of his growth was diminished by reduced his personality to that of a hardass that every now and then cuts loose, but only when he's drunk. I don't know why Oda thought that was the interesting move. Zoro was much more interesting when that mfer was just as liable to save the crew as he was getting them in trouble because the wrong person crossed him.
Worst of all, the years of anticipation for Wano wound up giving him scraps while making space for the growth of others. Zoro actually visited Ringo, the harshest province, where his ancestors hailed from, and what happened? Nothing worthy of the time to get there.
Comparing him to Sanji shows a stark difference in treatment. Sanji got less personal growth, but a lot more setup in the pre-skip for payoff post-skip. From the beginning, Oda was planting seeds for his secret origin as a long lost prince of a warmonger kingdom, and he did it without compromising on Sanji role in pushing the plot pre-skip.
Why couldn't Zoro get that level of attention? There were three Acts in Wano and the manga probably would have been better for it if Zoro was allowed to be protagonist/central figure of one of them.
To some degree, Zoro still does that last part, but I would say in a diminished and far less interesting capacity.
Not only did he not get any meaningful setup post skip, a lot of his growth was diminished by reduced his personality to that of a hardass that every now and then cuts loose, but only when he's drunk. I don't know why Oda thought that was the interesting move. Zoro was much more interesting when that mfer was just as liable to save the crew as he was getting them in trouble because the wrong person crossed him.
Worst of all, the years of anticipation for Wano wound up giving him scraps while making space for the growth of others. Zoro actually visited Ringo, the harshest province, where his ancestors hailed from, and what happened? Nothing worthy of the time to get there.
Comparing him to Sanji shows a stark difference in treatment. Sanji got less personal growth, but a lot more setup in the pre-skip for payoff post-skip. From the beginning, Oda was planting seeds for his secret origin as a long lost prince of a warmonger kingdom, and he did it without compromising on Sanji role in pushing the plot pre-skip.
Why couldn't Zoro get that level of attention? There were three Acts in Wano and the manga probably would have been better for it if Zoro was allowed to be protagonist/central figure of one of them.
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My issue is that Zoro arguably was given his own personal storyline in the first two acts that felt as if it was corresponding to Luffy’s, but it ultimately had no payoff and little to do with anything with his role in the third act.
The Yasui interactions that allowed Zoro to grow endeared to him before his tragic death, laying the groundwork for making the Kaido/Orochi conflict personal. Doesn’t even so much as mention his name throughout the raid.
Several references to his potential lineage throughout the arc, but doesn’t actually get explored and has no relevancy to anything he does in the raid.
I don’t even know what the point of that Onimaru shit was.
Literally him just receiving the Enma sword and removing every other plot beat that involved him would allow the third act to play exactly as it did.
Him at least killing Orochi could have been the bare minimum thematic payoff to what I’ve already referenced, giving him a more involved role in collapsing the nations tyranny. Instead he amounted to scarring Kaido and then defeating his subordinate… hardly different from his involvement in previous arcs.
The Yasui interactions that allowed Zoro to grow endeared to him before his tragic death, laying the groundwork for making the Kaido/Orochi conflict personal. Doesn’t even so much as mention his name throughout the raid.
Several references to his potential lineage throughout the arc, but doesn’t actually get explored and has no relevancy to anything he does in the raid.
I don’t even know what the point of that Onimaru shit was.
Literally him just receiving the Enma sword and removing every other plot beat that involved him would allow the third act to play exactly as it did.
Him at least killing Orochi could have been the bare minimum thematic payoff to what I’ve already referenced, giving him a more involved role in collapsing the nations tyranny. Instead he amounted to scarring Kaido and then defeating his subordinate… hardly different from his involvement in previous arcs.
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Oda actually gives Sanji things to do besides fight
I’ve been begging for Zoro to get more plot relevance since the start of this site and all the way back during the orojackson days
Zoro getting a fight and acting badass every arc is fine but extremely disappointing with it feeling like all he does. Oda obviously planned to do alot more with Zoro in Wano but that was obviously dropped along with 50 other plot lines
Tho I might be way too optimistic and hopeful I still think Oda will eventually cover some of those dropped plots later. I still want to see more character moments and maybe even development coming him that don’t just involve him just cutting
All 4 have the same insecurity
The insecurity of being a burden to the crew and not being good enough
Luffy honestly is rarely insecure about his strength the main times he was when he was a child, sabaody, post marineford were all moments where he didn’t feel like he was good enough. The ones later in life making him question if he’s worthy of his crew and becoming pirate king His childhood being a big reason he’s so tough on character like shirahoshi and momonosuke since they remind him of himself back then
At this point I’d say he’s fine and pretty much over it
Usopp while obviously not the strongest strawhat is also pretty much grown for the better. It being very much highlighted pre timeskip that for a lot of it Usopp started to feel unworthy and not good enough to be with the crew. That coming to the forefront during enies lobby
Now he’s excepted him not being as strong as zoro or sanji he can still contribute in ways they can’t and be just as valuable. Also realizing that luffy doesn’t pick members just because they’re strong but because he likes them. So while he’s not usually going to be in front of all the action that doesn’t mean he’s not willing to do whatever he can to help and sup
Sanji is/was an extremely self sacrificing character. Always ready to put the wants and needs of the people he cares about above his own. Because of that he so willing to give up just about anything even his life away easily if he believes it helps them. Even the thought of disappointing the people he cares about weighs heavily on him
And sanji himself realizes he has a lot of “flaws” and “weaknesses” that he himself is willing to carry his own plus more he was very much ashamed to get help for the things he can’t do. Him never wanting to feel like a burden on anyone else
All that getting very much highlighted during zou/wci. With him showing growth for the better since
It’s the same with zoro. While confident in his strength he constantly dogs on himself about being to weak and how every failure is because he’s not good enough. Even when the situation isn’t even really his fault
With Zoro always trying to come off as strong even when he doesn’t need to. To the point he can come off as extremely cold despite not actually meaning what he says. Zou being a clear example of him saying 1 thing but deep down meaning the other. Punk hazard being another example of him being extremely hard on himself that he projects it out.
The comment about Vegapunks death could also be a scenario of while there might be a bit of truth in what he says a lot of it could just be him projecting his insecurity of the situation and everything that happened in egghead
Say what you want about egghead zoro even if you think he did the best and was the mvp you still gotta admit man was getting shit on verbally. Just about every character friend and foe taking a turn basically calling him incompetent. Not saying I agree but it’s just what happened.
With zoro being hard on himself as is with no help needed I imagine he feels way fucking worse. So hopefully oda can delve more into that aspect of his character. I know people don’t expect much meaningful character moments and growth for zoro anymore but I still do so eh.
I do hope he delves into Zoro seemingly feeling insecure after what went down on egghead
Oden’s sword unironically outshined Zoro on the roof
I’ve been begging for Zoro to get more plot relevance since the start of this site and all the way back during the orojackson days
Zoro getting a fight and acting badass every arc is fine but extremely disappointing with it feeling like all he does. Oda obviously planned to do alot more with Zoro in Wano but that was obviously dropped along with 50 other plot lines
Tho I might be way too optimistic and hopeful I still think Oda will eventually cover some of those dropped plots later. I still want to see more character moments and maybe even development coming him that don’t just involve him just cutting
All 4 have the same insecurity
The insecurity of being a burden to the crew and not being good enough
Luffy honestly is rarely insecure about his strength the main times he was when he was a child, sabaody, post marineford were all moments where he didn’t feel like he was good enough. The ones later in life making him question if he’s worthy of his crew and becoming pirate king His childhood being a big reason he’s so tough on character like shirahoshi and momonosuke since they remind him of himself back then
At this point I’d say he’s fine and pretty much over it
Usopp while obviously not the strongest strawhat is also pretty much grown for the better. It being very much highlighted pre timeskip that for a lot of it Usopp started to feel unworthy and not good enough to be with the crew. That coming to the forefront during enies lobby
Now he’s excepted him not being as strong as zoro or sanji he can still contribute in ways they can’t and be just as valuable. Also realizing that luffy doesn’t pick members just because they’re strong but because he likes them. So while he’s not usually going to be in front of all the action that doesn’t mean he’s not willing to do whatever he can to help and sup
Sanji is/was an extremely self sacrificing character. Always ready to put the wants and needs of the people he cares about above his own. Because of that he so willing to give up just about anything even his life away easily if he believes it helps them. Even the thought of disappointing the people he cares about weighs heavily on him
And sanji himself realizes he has a lot of “flaws” and “weaknesses” that he himself is willing to carry his own plus more he was very much ashamed to get help for the things he can’t do. Him never wanting to feel like a burden on anyone else
All that getting very much highlighted during zou/wci. With him showing growth for the better since
It’s the same with zoro. While confident in his strength he constantly dogs on himself about being to weak and how every failure is because he’s not good enough. Even when the situation isn’t even really his fault
With Zoro always trying to come off as strong even when he doesn’t need to. To the point he can come off as extremely cold despite not actually meaning what he says. Zou being a clear example of him saying 1 thing but deep down meaning the other. Punk hazard being another example of him being extremely hard on himself that he projects it out.
The comment about Vegapunks death could also be a scenario of while there might be a bit of truth in what he says a lot of it could just be him projecting his insecurity of the situation and everything that happened in egghead
Say what you want about egghead zoro even if you think he did the best and was the mvp you still gotta admit man was getting shit on verbally. Just about every character friend and foe taking a turn basically calling him incompetent. Not saying I agree but it’s just what happened.
With zoro being hard on himself as is with no help needed I imagine he feels way fucking worse. So hopefully oda can delve more into that aspect of his character. I know people don’t expect much meaningful character moments and growth for zoro anymore but I still do so eh.
Oden’s sword unironically outshined Zoro on the roof
1. This is because yall don't pay attention to Zoro. He not the type to just yell things a d rarely says his true feelings. Zoro wanted to take out Orochi but realized Hyori had more of a right to that than him. Like how Luffy gave the sccabards a chance to stsrt the war and fight Kaido first.
2. Whats your obsession about Zoro keeps mentioning peoples name. He not that type of character. He barley mentions Kuina or WSS. I think he said he going be WSS like 3 times the entire story.
3. Agreed his family lineage could of been explored more but we did get his Shimotsuki sword maker from his lineage giving him sword that help him come to the right conclusion.
4. Zoro the one who got the antidote for Chopper, he also bonded with Momo/trained him and saved the Queen and Yasui adopted dauther. Him risking his life for random little girl and woman is why Yasui liked hik in the first place cause he could see that in him.
2. Whats your obsession about Zoro keeps mentioning peoples name. He not that type of character. He barley mentions Kuina or WSS. I think he said he going be WSS like 3 times the entire story.
3. Agreed his family lineage could of been explored more but we did get his Shimotsuki sword maker from his lineage giving him sword that help him come to the right conclusion.
4. Zoro the one who got the antidote for Chopper, he also bonded with Momo/trained him and saved the Queen and Yasui adopted dauther. Him risking his life for random little girl and woman is why Yasui liked hik in the first place cause he could see that in him.