Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love
Sanji stans everywhere desperate to see that mfer user advanced Armament to end the slander. 
Plus Sanji already has his exoskeleton so already has the second layer of defense but I digress.
@Sir Yasheen
it’s okay to want Shamrock to be very strong & statements are good and all (imo can’t take them at face value coz Oda is a bum but I digress). The question I’d pose to you is why does he have to be that strong so much so that he’s going to overcome the restrictions of ranks for it?
Argument that he’s Shanks brother is not good enough imo . I’d acknowledge that he’s probably talented but that isn’t a tangible argument. Lucci is also very talented for example.
it’s okay to want Shamrock to be very strong & statements are good and all (imo can’t take them at face value coz Oda is a bum but I digress). The question I’d pose to you is why does he have to be that strong so much so that he’s going to overcome the restrictions of ranks for it?
Argument that he’s Shanks brother is not good enough imo . I’d acknowledge that he’s probably talented but that isn’t a tangible argument. Lucci is also very talented for example.
I’d say the major thing is the amount oda has made sure to separate shamrock from all other Holy Knights.
1. He’s shown to have special privileges in his meeting with the gorosei “only cause it’s you”
2. He’s stated to be as strong as shanks would have been with the Deep seal (this version of shanks was already a powerhouse with CoC coating)
3. He’s given his very own demon ability like the gorosei in the form of Cerberus his sword
I think having him be limited by ranks is unfair to the visage of this character oda is building. It’s like limiting Garp for being merely a VA. So, since oda gave shamrock seemingly a similar kit as the gorosei (immortality, demon, and CoC) why would the fighter still in his prime be weaker than those who are far out of it and looked like subpar fighters last arc?
1. He’s shown to have special privileges in his meeting with the gorosei “only cause it’s you”
2. He’s stated to be as strong as shanks would have been with the Deep seal (this version of shanks was already a powerhouse with CoC coating)
3. He’s given his very own demon ability like the gorosei in the form of Cerberus his sword
I think having him be limited by ranks is unfair to the visage of this character oda is building. It’s like limiting Garp for being merely a VA. So, since oda gave shamrock seemingly a similar kit as the gorosei (immortality, demon, and CoC) why would the fighter still in his prime be weaker than those who are far out of it and looked like subpar fighters last arc?
None of the Strawhats beside Luffy have advanced Armament.
If Zoro and/or Sanji show it off any point, there will be no explanation.
The discourse about Armament when it comes to Sanji is particularly stupid because people routinely ignore the fact Sanji has been more reliant on Haki for defense than Luffy or Zoro.
He doesn't have a rubber body to absorb damage or swords to guard with.
By necessity, Sanji has had to use his Armament for defensive purposes and to a greater extent than the other two.
In fact, he has more direct acknowledgement of using it for defensive purposes than Zoro.
If Zoro and/or Sanji show it off any point, there will be no explanation.
The discourse about Armament when it comes to Sanji is particularly stupid because people routinely ignore the fact Sanji has been more reliant on Haki for defense than Luffy or Zoro.
He doesn't have a rubber body to absorb damage or swords to guard with.
By necessity, Sanji has had to use his Armament for defensive purposes and to a greater extent than the other two.
In fact, he has more direct acknowledgement of using it for defensive purposes than Zoro.
Last edited:
Fair you’ve been able to establish that Shamrock has been separated from the rest of the Holy Knights and I agree but that’s is understandable given he’s the captain of the Holy Knights (Lucci was much stronger than the rest of his Cp9 members pre-ts) but still not enough justification to put him over the Gorosei.
On the demon ability ting, there’s no evidence that is the same ability as the Gorosei but regardless of the logistics of that Shamrock has a deep seal not an abyss seal which the gorosei have until confirmed otherwise and also those seal ranks exist for a reason.
You can’t just completely bypass all of that as it will only undermine it.
You’re basically discarding the Gorosei positions and all of the seal development Oda’s setup just coz you think Shamrock is the bees knees.
Now I’m not saying Shamrock will not eventually be as strong as the Gorosei when we finally get to see him strut his stuff but there is a procedure to that. He will need to be promoted like his father was for that to happen.
Way I think it’ll go personally is that Oda will put Shamrock in that sweet spot just under the gorosei with similar abilities but not quite the same.
For example, CoC coating like the Gorosei so will be able to defend against CoC users (except they will be stronger coz of their abyss seal and have other perks the abyss seal gives)
Anyways to summarize my point is that if Shamrock is what you think he is, he will be given the appropriate rank and abilities to justify it. Won’t just override ranks & abyss seal coz.
On the Garp example, it’s a false equivalence btw. Garp not only has the feats to back up his hype but was also offered position of Admiral.
On the demon ability ting, there’s no evidence that is the same ability as the Gorosei but regardless of the logistics of that Shamrock has a deep seal not an abyss seal which the gorosei have until confirmed otherwise and also those seal ranks exist for a reason.
You can’t just completely bypass all of that as it will only undermine it.
You’re basically discarding the Gorosei positions and all of the seal development Oda’s setup just coz you think Shamrock is the bees knees.
Now I’m not saying Shamrock will not eventually be as strong as the Gorosei when we finally get to see him strut his stuff but there is a procedure to that. He will need to be promoted like his father was for that to happen.
Way I think it’ll go personally is that Oda will put Shamrock in that sweet spot just under the gorosei with similar abilities but not quite the same.
For example, CoC coating like the Gorosei so will be able to defend against CoC users (except they will be stronger coz of their abyss seal and have other perks the abyss seal gives)
Anyways to summarize my point is that if Shamrock is what you think he is, he will be given the appropriate rank and abilities to justify it. Won’t just override ranks & abyss seal coz.
On the Garp example, it’s a false equivalence btw. Garp not only has the feats to back up his hype but was also offered position of Admiral.
There is direct evidence that shamrocks Cerberus and the goroseis forms are the same. When Cerberus was revealed, he got a title box that had no devil fruit name, just the name off the demon. Which is identical to the boxes the gorosei got when that’s used the power.
And no I’m not discarding the seal development, I’m acknowledging the kit And abilities that they were given. I’m just also acknowledging shamrock being given the same kit. I also acknowledge that shamrock was introduced alongside someone who also seems to be an abyss seal (Gunko who hasn’t aged in over 56 years) and shamrock was the one who was treated as the bigger deal of the two.
If you won’t accept the Garp example I’ll use a fellow HK in Harald. He was a god blade for years and was way stronger than just about any god knight. Saying shamrock must be weaker than gorosei due to promotion scaling, is the same as saying any god knight must be stronger than Harald for the same reason.
All in all I think you’re downplaying the fact that oda specifically gave shamrock an identical kit to the gorosei combined with shamrock being in the prime of his youth still.
And no I’m not discarding the seal development, I’m acknowledging the kit And abilities that they were given. I’m just also acknowledging shamrock being given the same kit. I also acknowledge that shamrock was introduced alongside someone who also seems to be an abyss seal (Gunko who hasn’t aged in over 56 years) and shamrock was the one who was treated as the bigger deal of the two.
If you won’t accept the Garp example I’ll use a fellow HK in Harald. He was a god blade for years and was way stronger than just about any god knight. Saying shamrock must be weaker than gorosei due to promotion scaling, is the same as saying any god knight must be stronger than Harald for the same reason.
All in all I think you’re downplaying the fact that oda specifically gave shamrock an identical kit to the gorosei combined with shamrock being in the prime of his youth still.
Shanks probably has better haki, but in overall comparison, when you consider that Shamrock has Imu boosts, probably some fruit power and an awakened mythical zoan fed to his sword, he has the tools to be the stronger brother. There´s also the symbolism of Shanks losing his arm, which was originally supposed to represent Shanks´s potential to become the ruler of the seas, and has now been retconned to also include a connection to Imu, giving him literal strength.
I was originally against the idea, but in the flashback, where we get the only direct comparison between the two, Garling acknowledges Shamrock as being the stronger brother, and I don´t think there was any narrative reason for Oda to set this up for no reason, since they weren´t portrayed like ¨rivals¨ or anything in the flashback.
I was originally against the idea, but in the flashback, where we get the only direct comparison between the two, Garling acknowledges Shamrock as being the stronger brother, and I don´t think there was any narrative reason for Oda to set this up for no reason, since they weren´t portrayed like ¨rivals¨ or anything in the flashback.
Sanji is pretty much always nerfed beforehand or disadvantaged somehow in a fight, and I don't expect Killingham to be any different.
..Or he has a female hostage, but the former is less cliche.
I usually don't use the golden boy thing as an excuse to put Shanks above anyone (mostly because Oda still felt comfortable putting him below Mihawk for example) but I think in this case it could be considered a valid argument.
There's no way Oda has Shanks of all people be the weakest member of his family. He'd usually have the good member of an evil family be the strongest.
I'm not convinced that Sanji's opponent is actually Killingham.
Sanji just kicked him, like he kicked the S-Shark in the previous arc, but there wasn't a real fight.
I think Killingham might use his power to activate the nightmare of Sanji's that triggers him to awaken his AdvCoC, but in the end, I believe Sanji will finish off Sommers (which makes the most sense)
Sanji just kicked him, like he kicked the S-Shark in the previous arc, but there wasn't a real fight.
I think Killingham might use his power to activate the nightmare of Sanji's that triggers him to awaken his AdvCoC, but in the end, I believe Sanji will finish off Sommers (which makes the most sense)
