Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love

[Welkin]

This has nothing to do with wings and more to do with One Pieces plot structure, like this is not a new take of mine, its actually a pretty luke warm old take

At the day of the day the last arc of one piece will be overblown but in the core same Arlong park.

Now the argument to this is they were obviously other strong characters at that point in the story (roger, Shanks, Mihawk, Dragon)

Those will, however, be powercrept at that point

Just like people thought you cant be stronger than Kekdo Loki can and will powercrept at some point

The difference is that Loki, unlike Kaido, hasn't hit his peak at all

He's 21 in giant years (same age as Z/S) with an unawakened fruit and basic but strong advanced conqueror's haki. Loki, similar to Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, still has gas left in the tank in terms of growth

You can't really compare him to anyone we've met before. Narratively Loki has to keep up (1 of the 2 fruits that Rocks deemed necessary to take down Imu)

Also, Rayleigh and Gaban are not a comparison either, just like the SH already transcended the regular structure of a yonko crew, they will also transcend the regular structure of PK crew as Luffys journey and dream goes beyond that and he will fight opponents Roger didnt even see in his life, and accomplish thinks that Joyboy and his crew didnt

Which is why they'll be stronger than them. Stronger than Rayleigh and Gaban but stronger than Loki who's set to be alongside Luffy when he takes Imu out?

Not sure I see that

 

[Jackteo]

Cool, cool.
he doesn't look like that though.

Not yet

 

[RayanOO]

 

[kekaro]

The difference is that Loki, unlike Kaido, hasn't hit his peak at all

He's 21 in giant years (same age as Z/S) with an unawakened fruit and basic but strong advanced conqueror's haki. Loki, similar to Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, still has gas left in the tank in terms of growth

You can't really compare him to anyone we've met before. Narratively Loki has to keep up (1 of the 2 fruits that Rocks deemed necessary to take down Imu)



Which is why they'll be stronger than them. Stronger than Rayleigh and Gaban but stronger than Loki who's set to be alongside Luffy when he takes Imu out?

Not sure I see that

Sure, so doesnt have Law and Kidd and bunch of other characters, if you think he his the exception, fair, but i dont see it that way

Is that your personal L counter?

 

[Jackteo]

He's 21 in giant years (same age as Z/S) with an unawakened fruit and basic but strong advanced conqueror's haki. Loki, similar to Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, still has gas left in the tank in terms of growth

I'm not so sure about this. Unless he hasn't awakened his DF, he has very little room to grow. He also possess the strongest hammer in the world.
Better control over ACoC or a generic haki boost won't change much.

On the other hand, Zoro and Sanji are about to receive massive boosts, hakiwise, weaponwise and who knows what CL⁴⁶Oda is hiding behind Ashura and Sanji's flames.

Not to mention I think Loki is about to die and live on through Hajrudin when he becomes the new Nidhogg

 

[Doggo]

I'm not so sure about this. Unless he hasn't awakened his DF, he has very little room to grow. He also possess the strongest hammer in the world.
Better control over ACoC or a generic haki boost won't change much.

On the other hand, Zoro and Sanji are about to receive massive boosts, hakiwise, weaponwise and who knows what CL⁴⁶Oda is hiding behind Ashura and Sanji's flames.

Not to mention I think Loki is about to die and live on through Hajrudin when he becomes the new Nidhogg

Wtf is that last sentence?

 

[Etemenanki]

 

[Welkin]

I'm not so sure about this. Unless he hasn't awakened his DF, he has very little room to grow. He also possess the strongest hammer in the world.
Better control over ACoC or a generic haki boost won't change much.

On the other hand, Zoro and Sanji are about to receive massive boosts, hakiwise, weaponwise and who knows what CL⁴⁶Oda is hiding behind Ashura and Sanji's flames.

Not to mention I think Loki is about to die and live on through Hajrudin when he becomes the new Nidhogg

Better control over haki is a huge boost in One Piece lol

Mastery over haki is Shanks’ claim to fame with no devil fruit or other crazy gimmicks

Luffy’s few remaining powerups will also likely be haki related despite him having every (known) advanced version of every type besides observation killing

Zoro’s powerup this arc is legit just a generic ACoC upgrade which will likely have him jump a tier or 2 in strength

I don’t think Oda would set all this up for Loki if he planned on killing him in the arc he’s introduced in but who knows. I’ll say it isn’t a 0% chance tbh

 

[Jackteo]

Wtf is that last sentence?

Nidhogg Hajrudin is real, you can't stop it

 

[Welkin]

Sure, so doesnt have Law and Kidd and bunch of other characters, if you think he his the exception, fair, but i dont see it that way

People keep comparing Loki to characters that have come and gone (though Law and Kidd are both guaranteed to still be relevant going forward) but not one of them has ever had the narrative backing that Loki has

One of the two fruits that Rocks thought was an absolute must to beat Imu (with the other probably being Luffy's or BB's) and he possesses Ragnir which is also necessary for the next step of Rocks' plan (freeing the Galleila Giants)

He's not another Yamato, or Kidd, or Paulie, or anything like that. He's set to be one of the most important characters amongst the allies going into the final battle

Arguably the most important outside of Luffy and maybe Shirahoshi

 

[Jackteo]

Better control over haki is a huge boost in One Piece lol

It really depends on the character haki level. YC1+ Luffy got ACoA and ACoC and yet in G4 (so while in a temporary mode) he was barely able to keep up with Kaido. G5 was the real deal

 

[Welkin]

It really depends on the character haki level. YC1+ Luffy got ACoA and ACoC and yet in G4 (so while in a temporary mode) he was barely able to keep up with Kaido. G5 was the real deal

ACoA and ACoC let Luffy contend with hybrid Kaido while in base

He’d never win but that’s a huge bump from start of Wano Luffy who couldn’t even tickle base Kaido while in his strongest form before getting oneshot

 

[Rumble]

Sanji will fight the most plot relevant Gorosei available.

It’ll mostly likely to be Mars, imo.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

On this discussion of who the wings fight or whether they are adequte or not, personally I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I think the narrative is demanding from them which is to become pillars strong enough to be able to support Luffy in the war he's going to be waging against the world but it seems that the standard which I personally think is required for them to be at is different from some of my other Sanji bros, so the question I'd like to pose to y'all is "what standard do you think the wings need to be at to be able to fulfil their narrative role as Luffy's main support pillars"?

Right now to me personally I think Yonko level is their current floor and each will have to be strong enough to be able to combat something on a level as freaky as DR Xebec 1 v 1 (i.e. this is from the persepetive that they need to be able to beat whatever level of subordinate Imu is able to dish out keep in mind that in addtion to being able to domi reversi a monster like Xebec, Imu is also able to amp up his suborindates with maki meaning that the Gorosei can potentially get amps as well)

Where are y'all at with this?

imo Zoro and Sanji fight the Seraphim for final matchups, who could very easily be PK tier or higher threats at their peaks.

 

[Dark Knight Sanji]

imo Zoro and Sanji fight the Seraphim for final matchups, who could very easily be PK tier or higher threats at their peaks.

That would be so mid.
They need to fight actual villains if they are going to free the world. The Gorosei are the obly catchup that make sense.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Bare minimum on par with the Yonko but they'll probably go beyond that

Being able to handle DR Xebec in a 1v1 is a pretty high bar though, if we're being honest. A solo skysplit is a feat that only DR Xebec and Joyboy have currently

Not to mention Roger and Garp had to give every ounce of haki they had just to take him out. I think Zoro/Sanji will be playing in that prime Roger/Whitebeard/Garp territory but surpassing them seems like a leap to me currently

Their opponents have always been the biggest issue to me though. None of the EOS opponents besides the Gorosei (possibly buffed) feel strong enough to warrant that much growth

HK Harald doesn't really have a sky split but I'd argue he was just as strong as DR Xebec.
In the same vein it's possible that Sanji and or Zoro never get sky splits via clashes in the series and they are most likely going to be beyond Kaido and Linlin EoS. So I wouldn't really split hairs over that tbh but we can disagree on that.
Reason I set the standard as DR Xebec is coz 1.) Imu is capable of creating lackys on that level (i.e DR Xebec, HK Harald) and 2.) I think the ultimate challenge that will be presented to the wings is that CoC barrier that Roger/Garp and Gaban/Shanks had so much difficulty with.

Agree with you though that given the power inflation in the series atm all of the opponents available to the wings feel a bit lucklustre but all of that could change with Domi Reversi to high top tiers (i.e. imagine Domi Reversi Kaido/Linlin or Domi Reversi Admirals) or the Gorosei getting futher buffs from Imu.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

On Loki, whilst I agree that he still has room for growth given his age, I doubt he gets any stronger than what he's currently capable off at his max currently. For OP abilities like his, akin to Nika, I wouldn't at all be surprised if his Hybrid form has a stamin cap on it (i.e. in which case it will completely change the perspective of how his fight with Harald played out btw)

Honestly Loki though is a weird one coz I'm not really sure what Oda's tryna do with him narratively particulalry bcoz this fight with Imu is happening so early on. Right now he feels like he's taking up the type of role Law took up on DR when he fought alongside Luffy against Doffy (i.e a powerful ally that has a strong vendetta against the arc antagonist) but at the end of the day regardless of how powerful an ally his, an ally is simply an ally. I can't really see him sharing the spotlight with Nika when the climax battle with Imu happens further down the line in the future. Like has been the case with all allies before him, he will fall in line behind Luffy before the final war happens. In which case, it begs the question of who then fights Loki if he doesn't fight Imu coz Loki cannot be god tier only second to Imu and then pit against one of his subordinates surely? This has been the main issue I've had with the Loki god tier claims from jump.

For me personally I think there is a strong indication that Loki fights Shamrock but at this point the only way that will work is if Shanks really did beat Loki as Oda could simply hype Shamrock up as Shanks's equal but even then it'd still mean that Loki is not as strong as he appears to be.

 

[Paragorn]

It's between Ju Peter or Mars to fight Sanji

 

[Paragorn]

We're close to surpass the Temple...

 

[Royal Kick]

It's between Mars or Mars to fight Sanji

Agreed.