Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1183 Spoilers Discussion

[comrade]

Take in it takes Loki to use his lightning and Ragnir to use his ice combined to create light/lasers.

Just like it took Big Mom to combine fire, lightning and her blade to mimic lasers.

Anytime elements are on screen the Kizaru upscale goes crazy.

There are two elements that are used to show a superior element in the verse. Light and Magma. Oda uses Magma to show a higher level of flame similar to how he combines elements to create light.

Ice and lightning are a tier below them as shown by Loki and Ragnir. However the thing with Kuzan is he's not an ice man, he's a cold man, his actual ability is just lowering temperature, so while his produced element is clearly weaker he can probably just lower the temperature even further to cancel out stuff like magma (idk about lasers he's kinda cooked on that front).

Dunno if it's as easy. Combining elements gives them new properties, but it doesn't mean it is inherently superior to the source elements. And Kuzan's DF was equal to Akainu's in the literal sense.

And yes, logia awakening remains to be seen. Kuzan passively turning Punk Hazard into frozen wasteland with permanently changed weather is crazy in itself. Who knows how far an awakened cold fruit could go.

The fact Vegapunk couldn't replicate logias while he could with the Azure Dragon also demonstrates their complexity.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

https://x.com/i/status/2056742614062215581
Bruh.... @HeroesNZ yea this thing one shot freezes top tiers I'm afraid.

Remember there are multiple plot elements which have seemingly been perma frozen:

(Although I don’t know why Ragnir would allegedly freeze giants)

Anyway magic ice in the OP world is absolutely a thing

 

[Hedfi]

Cold cold fruit or chill chill. That's what his df is. It's not ice ice. Calling him ice man obviously makes sense, but his df works by lowering temperatures. He's not spawning ice over the ocean, he's freezing the ocean.

So essentially he has the ability to freeze things. And he should be able to control the temperature of the freeze.

The DF name is misleading, in actuality it's the ice + lowering temperature fruit cause aokiji literally turns into ice.

 

[Apollo]

If we're being honest and I've said this before, if not for the logia property. Oven has a stronger fruit than Akainu. Oven controls temperature itself and can heat things up as he sees fit and god knows how high those temps can go, I'm assuming the hottest in the verse since he has complete control over it.

However being a logia is just too big of an advantage. Producing an element of the highest class at will, and turning into it gives it too much separation. If it were a flame logia maybe it's a closer discussion, but the magma element is innately strong enough where not having complete control over temps isn't a big enough issue.

I always assumed Oven's fruit is limited by his own tolerance for temperature since he is not a logia. So he can't heat up to a million degrees since his body wouldn't survive those temperatures, even if he could do it in theory.

Unless I forgot and he can heat things without his body heating up.

 

[comrade]

If we're being honest and I've said this before, if not for the logia property. Oven has a stronger fruit than Akainu. Oven controls temperature itself and can heat things up as he sees fit and god knows how high those temps can go, I'm assuming the hottest in the verse since he has complete control over it.

However being a logia is just too big of an advantage. Producing an element of the highest class at will, and turning into it gives it too much separation. If it were a flame logia maybe it's a closer discussion, but the magma element is innately strong enough where not having complete control over temps isn't a big enough issue.

Nah, it obviously has limits, or else he could turn into the sun's core. But his heat punches barely so anything, while Akainu busts holes into people left and right. Oven's fruit makes him into a glorified oven, literally. Molten rock on the other hand is more or less unmatched in terms of AP/lethality.

 

[ZenZu]

Dunno if it's as easy. Combining elements gives them new properties, but it doesn't mean it is inherently superior to the source elements. And Kuzan's DF was equal to Akainu's in the literal sense.

And yes, logia awakening remains to be seen. Kuzan passively turning Punk Hazard into frozen wasteland with permanently changed weather is crazy in itself. Who knows how far an awakened cold fruit could go.

The fact Vegapunk couldn't replicate logias while he could with the Azure Dragon also demonstrates their complexity.

Kuzan's base powers have not proven to be a problem for top tiers like Kizaru and Akainu's would be. They can just facetank it and break out with no damage.

This is also consistent with the lightning element.

It does change the properties but it wouldn't make sense to change properties to something weaker, most likely the properties change to something more potent. That's where Big Mom's maser abilities came in, her base lightning and fire were clearly not as potent. And now recently we saw Loki do the same.

 

[NikaInParis]

Inserting flashbacks at bad times, overusing silhouettes, fake hype... is Oda a haramball practicioner in the manga industry?
Is Haramanga a thing now?
Ibn Seeichiro, Ebu Wann Bies, El Ichiro Ouda


Thoughts, football enjoyers?
@mly90 @Apollo @Tyki_Mikk @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @ShinichiMugi

 

[Doggo]

Yea its an odd one. He's just coldness, and the element he produces is ice. But really ice is just frozen water.

Remember when Whitebeard stabbed him, he created almost like a fluid area around his stomach so that he was basically made of water and the blade passed through, then he froze it. So he actually was able to choose how cold he wants his element to be I guess.

So his attacks being "ice saber", Ice time, ice glove, ice ice ice, is just for the kicks?

 

[ZenZu]

I always assumed Oven's fruit is limited by his own tolerance for temperature since he is not a logia. So he can't heat up to a million degrees since his body wouldn't survive those temperatures, even if he could do it in theory.

Unless I forgot and he can heat things without his body heating up.

I wonder what his tolerance is then? Should be very high. Also we saw him heat things up from a range, but I don't remember how much that effects his body.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

If Ragnir ice only gets undone by some other magic bullshit I will take it as a confirmation you can't break it by brute forcing

 

[Fn Lucci]

Possibly couldn't be worse than that

While Loki is facing the main villain a few blocks away

Zoro fell off so bad man

There's no reason at all in the story that Zoro should be fighting Imu. Did you also think he should've fought Doffy instead of Law?

 

[ZenZu]

So his attacks being "ice saber", Ice time, ice glove, ice ice ice, is just for the kicks?

What do you mean?

 

[comrade]

Kuzan's base powers have not proven to be a problem for top tiers like Kizaru and Akainu's would be. They can just facetank it and break out with no damage

So far Kuzan only trapped Whitebeard and Garp in a capsule of ice. His true potency lies in freezing people from the inside out (Ice Time). In Doffy's case, Buffalo even showed relief that Doffy's heart wasn't frozen. If your entire tissue is frozen, including brain and heart, there isn't really a breaking out of it.

 

[ZenZu]

The DF name is misleading, in actuality it's the ice + lowering temperature fruit cause aokiji literally turns into ice.

This is true. Because it's a logia it has to be an element. But he is the inverse of Oven's heat heat fruit in that he lowers temperature instead of raising it.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

There's no reason at all in the story that Zoro should be fighting Imu. Did you also think he should've fought Doffy instead of Law?

Yes hé should be fighting imu with Loki

Not face a fodder like bummers

 

[Doggo]

What do you mean?

Why are we trying to overcomplicate Aokiji's Ice fruit?
xD

 

[ZenZu]

So far Kuzan only trapped Whitebeard and Garp in a capsule of ice. His true potency lies in freezing people from the inside out (Ice Time). In Doffy's case, Buffalo even showed relief that Doffy's heart wasn't frozen. If your entire tissue is frozen, including brain and heart, there isn't really a breaking out of it.

I believe this to be the case too. However this just goes in line with what I'm saying.

Those slow deep freezes is him lowering temperature to a greater degree. Ice itself is not as big a threat as Magma or Lasers.

 

[soheilhazrat]

Who knows maybe this arc will be Sanji's IT moment where he realizes that he should stop being sexist and beat up women just like he beats up men

Or maybe you guys can finally read the manga and realize the reason why sanji doesnt hit women isnt cause he is a smip its cause he doesnt want to disappoint his dad
If zeff said stop beating men then he'd give uo fighting all together

 

[kurwa]

Ragnir's ice --> can't dmg Gunko

Kuzan's cold --> can scar Magma man

Ragnir is just kuzan upscale. Simple as.

 

[Goofball_Your_Nika]

Remember there are multiple plot elements which have seemingly been perma frozen:

(Although I don’t know why Ragnir would allegedly freeze giants)

Anyway magic ice in the OP world is absolutely a thing

How that bozo Meme missed them I'll never know...

"Information network" yeah right