Controversial Poll: Religious or rational?
- Thread starter Crow
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Alrighty but what do you think about the fact that Isaiah 53 was written around 500 BC, and there was a man born 500 years after that prophecy, who fulfilled it, and split history into two?
There were 47 prophecies about Jesus made centuries before he was born
Isaiah 53:3-5
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Zechariah 12:10
“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
@Logiko @Mathias I'd be interested in your guys' thoughts too
There were 47 prophecies about Jesus made centuries before he was born
Isaiah 53:3-5
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Zechariah 12:10
“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
@Logiko @Mathias I'd be interested in your guys' thoughts too
That can only be called a prophecy if you can prove a son of god actually died and the consequence of him doing so washed the world of sin. That would first involve proving a god exists and there is an afterlife and baptism takes you there.
If you can't prove those things then it isn't a prophecy it's just a repeated story.
And by the way, that is a very broad verse that can be applied to any number of situations. Predicting that at some point, in the next few centuries, a man will exist who people hate and wrongly execute is a fairly safe prediction especially for Romans. People just decided to make it fit one guy.
If you can't prove those things then it isn't a prophecy it's just a repeated story.
And by the way, that is a very broad verse that can be applied to any number of situations. Predicting that at some point, in the next few centuries, a man will exist who people hate and wrongly execute is a fairly safe prediction especially for Romans. People just decided to make it fit one guy.
I'm sorry. I don't believe in anything religious. To me "sacred texts" are just text that were passed down orally by humans. To me the "evidences" or the "lessons" that we find in them are just the result of our biases and our needs to find meaning.
And when we need to find meaning, everything will do.
And when we need to find meaning, everything will do.
I think rational science have God as the first cause / necessary existence that creates a foundation of science. Can't build a complex, functional/applicable, and collaborative system such as biology and chemistry in life, law of physics throughout universe, etc without the prime architect and engineer.
I agree, God is the basis of logic and existence
The Bible says:
John 3:19-21
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
________
People reject God because their deeds are evil and they dont want to come to the light, because they'd be out in the open and admit their deeds are evil.
You just have to be humble and say, yeah I'm a sinner, and well Jesus Christ came to save sinners, so if you're a sinner you're in the exact position to receive salvation.
Theres a quote that says
"Religion is a fairy tale for those afraid of the dark."
And I really like this quote:
"Atheism is a fairy tale for those afraid of the light"
The Bible says:
John 3:19-21
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
________
People reject God because their deeds are evil and they dont want to come to the light, because they'd be out in the open and admit their deeds are evil.
You just have to be humble and say, yeah I'm a sinner, and well Jesus Christ came to save sinners, so if you're a sinner you're in the exact position to receive salvation.
Theres a quote that says
"Religion is a fairy tale for those afraid of the dark."
And I really like this quote:
"Atheism is a fairy tale for those afraid of the light"
You are right. But that doesn’t necessarily ‘debunk’ religion.
This sort of thinking misunderstands what faith is.
Faith is a worldview. It determines the way you live your life. It is scientific nor does it need to be scientific.
It is fundamentally about values, culture, and identity. In that respect it is like Pokémon, as it is something of a fandom. However it obviously goes much deeper as religions contain wisdom accumulated over centuries by the countless people who have followed them.
This sort of thinking misunderstands what faith is.
Faith is a worldview. It determines the way you live your life. It is scientific nor does it need to be scientific.
It is fundamentally about values, culture, and identity. In that respect it is like Pokémon, as it is something of a fandom. However it obviously goes much deeper as religions contain wisdom accumulated over centuries by the countless people who have followed them.
Ya there are conflicts between the current secular Science and Religions, such as Common Ancestry between Humans and Apes conflicting with the Adam and Eve story
But at the same time, maybe Science has made the position of belief in God more respectable than at any time in the past
● Fine Tuning from Physics/Cosmology seems to be an overwhelming evidence for the existence of a God
● the study of Origin of Life, which is an intersection of sciences ( Chemistry Physics Biology maybe others ) is maybe where an evidence of God has also come out from
According to this presentation by Physicist/Thermodynamicist Brian Miller, the minimally complex self-replicating/reproducing life forms have to have all these technologies to live :
Manufacturing, Automated Repair, Waste Disposal and Recycling, Auto Assembly, Global Coordination etc.
I guess to at least most of us laymen, who don't work in the Sciences, it seems case closed if that is true, that those life forms had to be made by creator(s).
● but i hope the most powerful evidence for God will come out from Biology
According to that same Physicist (Brian Miller), we are actually at the earliest stages of the next Great Scientific Revolution in Biology, because as he said
The most profound thinkers in Biology such as Michael Levin and Dennis Noble sees the evidence of cognition or mind directing Embryology
In this video he also argued that the information needed to make a life form/embryo is astronomical:
There are probably other evidences of design from Biology, such as the Heteropalindromic Information Compression that is contained in the DNA
But at the same time, maybe Science has made the position of belief in God more respectable than at any time in the past
● Fine Tuning from Physics/Cosmology seems to be an overwhelming evidence for the existence of a God
● the study of Origin of Life, which is an intersection of sciences ( Chemistry Physics Biology maybe others ) is maybe where an evidence of God has also come out from
According to this presentation by Physicist/Thermodynamicist Brian Miller, the minimally complex self-replicating/reproducing life forms have to have all these technologies to live :
Manufacturing, Automated Repair, Waste Disposal and Recycling, Auto Assembly, Global Coordination etc.
● but i hope the most powerful evidence for God will come out from Biology
According to that same Physicist (Brian Miller), we are actually at the earliest stages of the next Great Scientific Revolution in Biology, because as he said
The most profound thinkers in Biology such as Michael Levin and Dennis Noble sees the evidence of cognition or mind directing Embryology
In this video he also argued that the information needed to make a life form/embryo is astronomical:
Heteropalindromic Information Compression in DNA
Alright, i don't fully understand the video yet, but i get the gist that the amount of information stored in DNA is insane, and again there is information compression in there, which doesn't happen by chance
( relying on chance for everything seems ridiculous lol, the Universe comes by chance, Origin of Life = Chance, DNA = chance )
Here are some quotes from it:
- "we're only scratching the surface how packed with information your DNA is"
- "organisms like Viruses and even Bacteria make use of all 6 open reading frames"
( relying on chance for everything seems ridiculous lol, the Universe comes by chance, Origin of Life = Chance, DNA = chance )
Here are some quotes from it:
- "we're only scratching the surface how packed with information your DNA is"
- "organisms like Viruses and even Bacteria make use of all 6 open reading frames"
Ya there are conflicts between the current secular Science and Religions, such as Common Ancestry between Humans and Apes conflicting with the Adam and Eve story
But at the same time, maybe Science has made the position of belief in God more respectable than at any time in the past
● Fine Tuning from Physics/Cosmology seems to be an overwhelming evidence for the existence of a God
● the study of Origin of Life, which is an intersection of sciences ( Chemistry Physics Biology maybe others ) is maybe where an evidence of God has also come out from
According to this presentation by Physicist/Thermodynamicist Brian Miller, the minimally complex self-replicating/reproducing life forms have to have all these technologies to live :
Manufacturing, Automated Repair, Waste Disposal and Recycling, Auto Assembly, Global Coordination etc.
I guess to at least most of us laymen, who don't work in the Sciences, it seems case closed if that is true, that those life forms had to be made by creator(s).
● but i hope the most powerful evidence for God will come out from Biology
According to that same Physicist (Brian Miller), we are actually at the earliest stages of the next Great Scientific Revolution in Biology, because as he said
The most profound thinkers in Biology such as Michael Levin and Dennis Noble sees the evidence of cognition or mind directing Embryology
In this video he also argued that the information needed to make a life form/embryo is astronomical:
There are probably other evidences of design from Biology, such as the Heteropalindromic Information Compression that is contained in the DNA
But at the same time, maybe Science has made the position of belief in God more respectable than at any time in the past
● Fine Tuning from Physics/Cosmology seems to be an overwhelming evidence for the existence of a God
● the study of Origin of Life, which is an intersection of sciences ( Chemistry Physics Biology maybe others ) is maybe where an evidence of God has also come out from
According to this presentation by Physicist/Thermodynamicist Brian Miller, the minimally complex self-replicating/reproducing life forms have to have all these technologies to live :
Manufacturing, Automated Repair, Waste Disposal and Recycling, Auto Assembly, Global Coordination etc.
● but i hope the most powerful evidence for God will come out from Biology
According to that same Physicist (Brian Miller), we are actually at the earliest stages of the next Great Scientific Revolution in Biology, because as he said
The most profound thinkers in Biology such as Michael Levin and Dennis Noble sees the evidence of cognition or mind directing Embryology
In this video he also argued that the information needed to make a life form/embryo is astronomical:
I don't need some scientists in a lab to tell me their opinion though personally, I decided long ago that in my worldview it's crystal clear God exists
I don’t think religion is inherently a tool for controlling the masses. But it is often weaponized into that.
I think folks need to be very cautious when people try to blend religion into nationalism. Because governments have a vested interest in corrupting religions in order to further their own agendas.
I think on some level, the highest form of faith is inherently anti-nationalist. If we say God is real, then why do people need to divide themselves by arbitrary borders? Do the people across the border not pray to the same God we do? Does that God really care about the imaginary lines by which people divide themselves against?
I think folks need to be very cautious when people try to blend religion into nationalism. Because governments have a vested interest in corrupting religions in order to further their own agendas.
I think on some level, the highest form of faith is inherently anti-nationalist. If we say God is real, then why do people need to divide themselves by arbitrary borders? Do the people across the border not pray to the same God we do? Does that God really care about the imaginary lines by which people divide themselves against?
Yes, religion is meant to be anti nationalist and anti racist. Muslims pride themselves upon this (well at least towards other Sunnis, they're terrible towards Shias). There's a reason why pastors and all never discriminate. It's only weaponized as a nationalist tool by right wingers who don't even know their own religion but use it as a tool to gain votes like a certain president.