Controversial General Political Discussion
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A bunch of those names ranges from right leaning to far right, and they all got almost the exact same reasoning and playbook:
1- Hitler called himself a socialist
2. Mussolini was a socialist so fascism is his modification of socialism
3. Both were totalitarian regimes
4. Stalin also had a totalitarian regime and was a communist
5. I'm a right winger who wants peace and justice for all, so the left must be the opposite of me
Every single time.
1- Hitler called himself a socialist
2. Mussolini was a socialist so fascism is his modification of socialism
3. Both were totalitarian regimes
4. Stalin also had a totalitarian regime and was a communist
5. I'm a right winger who wants peace and justice for all, so the left must be the opposite of me
Every single time.
? Hitler by defintion, actions, and goals was not a socialist. Hitler himself admitted that he only called himself and his party socialist because it was popular with the people, and redefined the word to mean racial and national loyalty in Nazi Germany alone.
Socialists and communists were two of Hitler's biggest targets and victims, and Hitler has expressed his hatred and perceived threat of them. Hitler banned and killed leftist, destroyed labor unions, protected big capital, and supported privatization.
He was one of the most cookie-cutter far rightist and anti-leftist imaginable.
Socialists and communists were two of Hitler's biggest targets and victims, and Hitler has expressed his hatred and perceived threat of them. Hitler banned and killed leftist, destroyed labor unions, protected big capital, and supported privatization.
He was one of the most cookie-cutter far rightist and anti-leftist imaginable.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure his party was called SOCIALIST. A quick AI search about why Hitler adopted the word "socialism":
"Adolf Hitler explained his redefinition of "socialism" and the party's name during a 1923 interview with the German-American writer George Sylvester Viereck, which was published in Liberty magazine. He stated that he wanted to take the word away from the Marxists and link it instead to national and racial solidarity. [1, 2, 3]
The 1923 Interview
- The Quote: When asked why he called his party a socialist one when its program was the opposite of traditional socialism, Hitler retorted: "I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists." [1]
- The Re-definition: He claimed that Marxism had stolen and confused the word, and that true socialism was an ancient Germanic institution focused on the common good (Gemeinnutz vor Eigennutz) rather than the abolition of private property. [1, 2]
- The Racial Tie: He explicitly tied this concept to the state and race, stating: "Our socialism is national... To us state and race are one." [1]"
The term "socialism" was first used in print in English in 1827 within the British Cooperative Magazine to describe Owen's cooperative movement.
Marx did not invent socialism. It started in the early 19th century, shaped by early thinkers like Robert Owen and Henri de Saint-Simon. Utopian socialism precedes Marxism. Henri supported private property. Robert did not.
Hitler opposed Marxism, which was a form of socialism based around workers' solidarity rather than racial solidarity. Nazism is national socialism; meanwhile, Marxism is an international approach to it. Hitler was pro-private property. Stalin was not. Just like Robert and Henri, the founders of socialism, had opposing views on private property.
Socialists and communists killed each other all the time. Stalin persecuted Trotskyists. Modern-day communists (aka "academics") think all previous communists were not socialists because they never achieved a truly socialist society.
They didn't achieve that, simply because they failed. Not because they were not socialists. They were incompetent, and their ideology was flawed and utopian.
You should watch that video; it's great historical material.
Global warming is what is going massively wrong lol
To be honest forest fire or zombie fires are not really what scare me the most, they can sometimes be helpfull for the environment, but the rise of temperatures and the fact that we are reaching extrem wet-bulb temperature level fast in many places is really scary
To be honest forest fire or zombie fires are not really what scare me the most, they can sometimes be helpfull for the environment, but the rise of temperatures and the fact that we are reaching extrem wet-bulb temperature level fast in many places is really scary
1-He did. So did his party members.
2-Yes, it is.
3-All of them were.
4-And?
5-I'm a left winger who wants peace and justice for all, so the right must be the opposite of me.
Let's call our historical rivals, socialist ideologies Nazism and Fascism, right-wing so we save face. Leon Trotsky, of all people, was accused of trying to restore capitalism by Stalin, by the way.
"Moving forward, let's distance ourselves from Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and so on. They weren't true socialists; we are." - Every leftie ever in history.
The left never takes accountability for anything. They always falsify history. In the future, children's school books will teach that Castro, Kim Jong Un, Lula, Xi, and Putin were right-wing conservatives. I have already seen people call Lula a liberal in here. I don't even need to say anything about Putin. lol
2-Yes, it is.
3-All of them were.
4-And?
5-I'm a left winger who wants peace and justice for all, so the right must be the opposite of me.
Let's call our historical rivals, socialist ideologies Nazism and Fascism, right-wing so we save face. Leon Trotsky, of all people, was accused of trying to restore capitalism by Stalin, by the way.
"Moving forward, let's distance ourselves from Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and so on. They weren't true socialists; we are." - Every leftie ever in history.
The left never takes accountability for anything. They always falsify history. In the future, children's school books will teach that Castro, Kim Jong Un, Lula, Xi, and Putin were right-wing conservatives. I have already seen people call Lula a liberal in here. I don't even need to say anything about Putin. lol
You know, this part is actually quite interesting. I was unaware that Marx was not the progenitor to the term, however you must be careful, because if one can have their own spin on socialism, then the individuals you are debating with can just state they believe in Marxist socialism, not proto-socialism.
However, this does pose the question of what socialism even is. To follow the thread of logic provided by yourself, it would seem you posit that base socialism is about solidarity of people unified in purpose, and thinkers add their own caveats to whom this solidarity applies. For Marx it was workers, for Hitler is was racial.
Is this a correct representation of what you're saying? If so, I'll have to look into this to determine if proto-socialism has been effectively co-opted by popular Marxism, with the latter being an usurper to the name. Fascinating to think about, to be honest.
However, this does pose the question of what socialism even is. To follow the thread of logic provided by yourself, it would seem you posit that base socialism is about solidarity of people unified in purpose, and thinkers add their own caveats to whom this solidarity applies. For Marx it was workers, for Hitler is was racial.
Is this a correct representation of what you're saying? If so, I'll have to look into this to determine if proto-socialism has been effectively co-opted by popular Marxism, with the latter being an usurper to the name. Fascinating to think about, to be honest.
There are dozens of variations of socialism out there lol To name a few:
Democratic Socialism: Seeks public control of the economy through democratic political systems rather than revolution.
State Socialism: Features centralized economic planning and government ownership of major industries.
Market Socialism: Combines social or worker ownership of production with market-based allocation of goods and services.
Libertarian Socialism: Rejects state control in favor of decentralized worker self-management, syndicalism, or cooperatives.
Revolutionary Socialism / Communism: Argues that capitalism must be forcefully overthrown to establish a classless society.
Eco-Socialism: Blends socialist economics with green politics and environmental protection.
Social Democracy: Uses high progressive taxation and robust welfare states within a regulated capitalist framework.
Socialism of the 21st Century: A populist regional variant blending state asset nationalization with anti-neoliberal policies.
Democratic Socialism: Seeks public control of the economy through democratic political systems rather than revolution.
State Socialism: Features centralized economic planning and government ownership of major industries.
Market Socialism: Combines social or worker ownership of production with market-based allocation of goods and services.
Libertarian Socialism: Rejects state control in favor of decentralized worker self-management, syndicalism, or cooperatives.
Revolutionary Socialism / Communism: Argues that capitalism must be forcefully overthrown to establish a classless society.
Eco-Socialism: Blends socialist economics with green politics and environmental protection.
Social Democracy: Uses high progressive taxation and robust welfare states within a regulated capitalist framework.
Socialism of the 21st Century: A populist regional variant blending state asset nationalization with anti-neoliberal policies.
Political movements have material realities, they are not etheral things that are just floating around us. Meaning that you can't really say "well X was socialist because Marx didn't invent the term". In reality, language and political meaning evolve and the term socialism has taken a very specific political meaning.
Which is why National socialism (Nazism) was never and will never be "socialist". Again, marxist were the first target of Hitler, among the first to die. Looking at the term "socialism" on a name while ignoring and denying the nature of the system (which is against socialism itself and the working class) is like saying "my milk bottle had a yellow cow on it, therefore the milk can only come from a yellow cow".
Socialism has a political reality that can't be stripped away, we know for a fact that Hitler used that term as a way to lure the working class who was starting to side with communist at the time. It was strategical, precisely because he knew that there are people who only look at the surface to make a judgement not the actual structures and material realities of political systems.
Which is why National socialism (Nazism) was never and will never be "socialist". Again, marxist were the first target of Hitler, among the first to die. Looking at the term "socialism" on a name while ignoring and denying the nature of the system (which is against socialism itself and the working class) is like saying "my milk bottle had a yellow cow on it, therefore the milk can only come from a yellow cow".
Socialism has a political reality that can't be stripped away, we know for a fact that Hitler used that term as a way to lure the working class who was starting to side with communist at the time. It was strategical, precisely because he knew that there are people who only look at the surface to make a judgement not the actual structures and material realities of political systems.
In essence:
I love when I predict the future.
Just identify as a marxist, not a socialist, it's not difficult.
Can you define what socialism is at its core? From where does the concept spring? Are you arguing that marxism and socialism are the same thing now, and that no other definition exists? If that latter is untrue, then what is the difference between the two, and what is the political reality of socialism?
@NAMELESS do you want to answer this too?
I love when I predict the future.
Just identify as a marxist, not a socialist, it's not difficult.
Can you define what socialism is at its core? From where does the concept spring? Are you arguing that marxism and socialism are the same thing now, and that no other definition exists? If that latter is untrue, then what is the difference between the two, and what is the political reality of socialism?
@NAMELESS do you want to answer this too?