So let me reduce this to a few straightforward questions:
- Can you show the panel where Zoro says he wants to become the strongest human, person, creature or living being, without the qualification “swordsman”?
- Can you show where Mihawk is called the strongest character overall, rather than the World’s Strongest Swordsman?
- Can you show proof that Mihawk personally turned Yoru black?
- Can you show proof that creating a black blade requires the strongest Haki in the world?
- Can you show proof that nobody stronger than Mihawk can exist without invalidating Zoro’s dream?
- Can you explain why Mihawk’s qualified title must be expanded beyond its wording, WHILE Whitebeard’s and Kaido’s broader titles can simply be dismissed?
If every answer requires another interpretation, assumption or appeal to what the story “must” mean, then you are really not deriving your conclusion from evidence. You are starting with “Mihawk is the strongest” and constructing enough speculative bridges to arrive back at it.
At some point, the fact that none of the decisive premises can be demonstrated should make you reconsider whether this is textual analysis or merely an agenda being reverse-engineered into the manga.
With all due respect, this is all a conclusion-first argument:
1. Zoro must become the strongest character.
2. Therefore Mihawk must currently be the strongest character.
3. Therefore Yoru must prove Mihawk has the strongest Haki.
4. Therefore Mihawk must have forged Yoru black.
5. The evidence that he forged it is that nobody has explicitly said he did not.
That is a mixture of begging the question, argument from ignorance and narrative wishful thinking.
Mihawk’s actual title is World’s Strongest Swordsman. You are removing the limiting word “swordsman” and claiming his real title is effectively just “the strongest,” because that better fits your conclusion. Yet Kaido’s and Whitebeard’s explicitly broader titles are dismissed as rumours or outdated. That is special pleading: Mihawk’s title is interpreted as broadly as possible, while every competing title is weakened as much as necessary.
The black-blade argument is just another stack of unsupported assumptions:
Yoru is a black blade -> Mihawk personally forged it black -> blackening requires the world’s strongest Haki -> therefore Mihawk has the world’s strongest Haki.
None of those transitions has been established. “There is no reason to doubt it” is not evidence; it merely shifts the burden of proof.
And saying Zoro’s dream would otherwise “lose its meaning” is not proof either. Zoro wants to become the world’s strongest swordsman, not the strongest living being through the technicality of using swords.
So the reasoning is ultimately circular: Mihawk must be the strongest because Zoro must surpass the strongest, and Zoro must surpass the strongest because Mihawk is his final opponent. Everything between those two claims is speculation being presented as confirmation.
Why should anyone who does not already share the agenda accept that?
- Can you show the panel where Zoro says he wants to become the strongest human, person, creature or living being, without the qualification “swordsman”?
- Can you show where Mihawk is called the strongest character overall, rather than the World’s Strongest Swordsman?
- Can you show proof that Mihawk personally turned Yoru black?
- Can you show proof that creating a black blade requires the strongest Haki in the world?
- Can you show proof that nobody stronger than Mihawk can exist without invalidating Zoro’s dream?
- Can you explain why Mihawk’s qualified title must be expanded beyond its wording, WHILE Whitebeard’s and Kaido’s broader titles can simply be dismissed?
If every answer requires another interpretation, assumption or appeal to what the story “must” mean, then you are really not deriving your conclusion from evidence. You are starting with “Mihawk is the strongest” and constructing enough speculative bridges to arrive back at it.
At some point, the fact that none of the decisive premises can be demonstrated should make you reconsider whether this is textual analysis or merely an agenda being reverse-engineered into the manga.
With all due respect, this is all a conclusion-first argument:
1. Zoro must become the strongest character.
2. Therefore Mihawk must currently be the strongest character.
3. Therefore Yoru must prove Mihawk has the strongest Haki.
4. Therefore Mihawk must have forged Yoru black.
5. The evidence that he forged it is that nobody has explicitly said he did not.
That is a mixture of begging the question, argument from ignorance and narrative wishful thinking.
Mihawk’s actual title is World’s Strongest Swordsman. You are removing the limiting word “swordsman” and claiming his real title is effectively just “the strongest,” because that better fits your conclusion. Yet Kaido’s and Whitebeard’s explicitly broader titles are dismissed as rumours or outdated. That is special pleading: Mihawk’s title is interpreted as broadly as possible, while every competing title is weakened as much as necessary.
The black-blade argument is just another stack of unsupported assumptions:
Yoru is a black blade -> Mihawk personally forged it black -> blackening requires the world’s strongest Haki -> therefore Mihawk has the world’s strongest Haki.
None of those transitions has been established. “There is no reason to doubt it” is not evidence; it merely shifts the burden of proof.
And saying Zoro’s dream would otherwise “lose its meaning” is not proof either. Zoro wants to become the world’s strongest swordsman, not the strongest living being through the technicality of using swords.
So the reasoning is ultimately circular: Mihawk must be the strongest because Zoro must surpass the strongest, and Zoro must surpass the strongest because Mihawk is his final opponent. Everything between those two claims is speculation being presented as confirmation.
Why should anyone who does not already share the agenda accept that?
Zoro desires Strength more than anything, it is superior desire to Swords.
- Also yes, in Baratie, Sanji called Mihawk the World's Strongest.
- Why would we need proof of Mihawk personally forging Yoru black? Only those who argue in bad faith and push anti-Mihawk agendas need that proof, anything to undermine him instead of accepting his supremacy. His statement that every blade can become a black blade is proof enough already.
- I never said that forging a Kokuto requires the strongest haki in the world - I said forging the strongest weapon requires it. Difference.
- Also yes, Zoro's aim is fixed onto whoever is the strongest. We saw in Wano as well, that he was fixated on Kaido and challenging him, all because he is known as the toughest in the world... You fail to understand Zoro's mindset. Even if someone stronger than Mihawk were to show up, he would become Zoro's target instead of Mihawk but as already explained, such character doesnt exist because Mihawk is the strongest.
- Kaido and Whitebeard are additions to the story, due to popularity, added into the story after Mihawk. They were designed so they do not stand above Mihawk. Whitebeard is old and his title was received long ago when Mihawk wasnt in his prime. Kaido was merely rumored strongest in the present. That way, neither WSC nor WSM stand above WSS. And, in Oda own words, Final Saga is the part of the story that matters and everything before is more or less irrelevant. As you can see, there is no WSM in Final Saga, there is no WSC in Final Saga... A World's Strongest doesnt exist in the core of the story because there can be only 1.
You are not wrong, I do start with "Mihawk is the strongest" but I construct my arguments on logic and evidence.
I do not dismiss the fact that in all the story, Mihawk holds the strongest weapon and that he told Zoro to basically forge stronger weapons with his willpower(haki) in order to dethrone him, something that no other has done. Those who argue in bad faith, constantly want to undermine, either by saying that Yoru is not the strongest or that someone aint a swordsman so it doesnt matter. It goes to such lengths that they deny swordsmen being swordsmen.
1 - Who else than the one who desires Strength more than anything else and is 2nd main character of the show?
2 - Who else than the one wielding the strongest weapon in history and is the one who awaits Zoro at the top?
3 - What else does it prove when he literally told Zoro to use haki to beat him?
4 - Who else?
5 - As I said, desperate, bad faith arguments. Yall would accept anyone forging it strongest, just not Mihawk.
Actually, Mihawk himself said there are no limits by saying >This sword knows no bounds.
I have never dismissed Kaido and WB, I have logically explained both.
You can see for yourself what is more important to Oda, WSS or WSC+WSM... Which one did he save up last? The weakest? lol
Not jsut Black blade but the strongest weapon argument is as logical as it gets and backed up by manga facts.
Actually, Zoro wants to become the strongest and swords are merely a tool of achieving that. That's what yall dont understand, yall are convinced that the strongest swordsman is not the strongest overall...
You think shortcuts to power like science and Devil Fruits are superior to swordsmanship...
They are not. They all have a counter, supreme swordsmanship doesnt. That's why we find ourselves in Sword Piece now...
@nik87 you're cooked pal


