Game of Thrones/ASOIAF

[Ricassian]

Where would you place Mance Ryder in terms of combat prowess?

Wildlings only submit to strenght, if I remember correctly, that means that Mance Rayder is the best combatant there (of course we're not considering Giants cause Mance has strenght/skill + brain to lead).

I'd say he would be a great and renowned warrior in the Kingdoms, someone that would put up a good fight against someone like the Hound before losing. His combat prowness should be on the same level of Beric Dondarrion.

 

[Rumble]

On rereads, it just becomes so much more frustrating Robb didn't adapt accordingly when Winterfell was taken.

If he had just been smart, he would've embraced a much slower and protracted war.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

On rereads, it just becomes so much more frustrating Robb didn't adapt accordingly when Winterfell was taken.

If he had just been smart, he would've embraced a much slower and protracted war.

The absolute worst thing that could have happened to them, Catelyn stupidly sending Jaime out to rescue Sansa and Arya, wasn't actually his fault, but even if the Red Wedding never happened, it still made a bad precedent, as he basically had to break a promise because he banged Jeyne Westerling, so now his Riverlands vassals don't really get the show of good faith of unifying both kingdoms like he should have.

But yeah, if Jaime was still a hostage, even Tywin wouldn't have risked his safety for the RW.

 

[Rumble]

The absolute worst thing that could have happened to them, Catelyn stupidly sending Jaime out to rescue Sansa and Arya, wasn't actually his fault, but even if the Red Wedding never happened, it still made a bad precedent, as he basically had to break a promise because he banged Jeyne Westerling, so now his Riverlands vassals don't really get the show of good faith of unifying both kingdoms like he should have.

But yeah, if Jaime was still a hostage, even Tywin wouldn't have risked his safety for the RW.

Many mistakes were made by many people, but not immediately turning back North was imo Robb's biggest mistake. By his grandfather's doing, he was the King in the North and King of the Trident.

The moment he learned Winterfell had fallen, he should've returned North to secure his seat and restore order. On the way, he could've kept his word to the Freys. With them in the fold, they would've likely committed even more men to the cause. Robb could've left Blackfish in charge of mustering the remaining able lords of the Riverlands.

Restoring order to the North and Riverlands would've given Robb legitimacy as monarch over both and a much stronger base to work with. In time, he could've possibly drawn the Vale into the war and into an alliance of two kingdoms. Hell, with the way wars go, perhaps one. Robb could've ended up the greatest nation builder without a dragon since Harwyn Hoare.

If only he had the good sense to prioritise securing his own kindgdom first.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Many mistakes were made by many people, but not immediately turning back North was imo Robb's biggest mistake. By his grandfather's doing, he was the King in the North and King of the Trident.

The moment he learned Winterfell had fallen, he should've returned North to secure his seat and restore order. On the way back, he could've kept his word to the Freys. With the Twins firmly in the fold, Robb could've left Blackfish in charge of mustering the remaining able lords of the Riverlands.

Restoring order to the North and Riverlands would've given Robb a much stronger base. In time, he could've possibly drawn the Vale into the war and into an alliance of two kingdoms. Hell, with the way wars go, perhaps one. Robb could've ended up the greatest nation builder without a dragon since Harwyn Hoare.

If only he had the good sense to prioritise securing his own kindgdom first.

Unfortunately, while the idea in itself was sound, he really should not have reached out to Balon Greyjoy, because all that accomplished was planting a seed of doubt in Theon and telling Balon it's prime time for some raiding. Now, a smarter Greyjoy should have went with Robb's plan, but it was just that Balon is a stupid, petty asshole.

That said, even Tywin is guilty of short-term planning. Because he really didn't seem to understand he wasn't immortal and his own succession is a bit...shaky. So, as soon as he was dead and the hostages, once way or another, are gone, they *would* unquestionably rise up again, because he just permanently established the Lannisters as untrustworthy assholes with the biggest taboo in their society attributed to them.

 

[Rumble]

Unfortunately, while the idea in itself was sound, he really should not have reached out to Balon Greyjoy, because all that accomplished was planting a seed of doubt in Theon and telling Balon it's prime time for some raiding. Now, a smarter Greyjoy should have went with Robb's plan, but it was just that Balon is a stupid, petty asshole.

That said, even Tywin is guilty of short-term planning. Because he really didn't seem to understand he wasn't immortal and his own succession is a bit...shaky. So, as soon as he was dead and the hostages, once way or another, are gone, they *would* unquestionably rise up again, because he just permanently established the Lannisters as untrustworthy assholes with the biggest taboo in their society.

My point is Theon's treachery could've worked out incredibly well for Robb if he had responded correctly. A crisis can be an opportunity, and he squandered a massive one, is what I'm saying.

The Ironborn were there for easy pickings, not a sustained invasion. I doubt Robb would've even had to deal much with them once they heard of his return at the head of an army of northmen and rivermen.

With Winterfell retaken, Robb could've actually had a good think on the ways to best leverage his kingdom's resources. The Kings of Winter didn't have Hands, but Robb might've been inclined to adopt practical Southern traditions. With the Blackfish marshalling the Riverlands, Robb could've leveraged the Boltons, Glovers, Umbers and the Manderlys to fight remaining raiders, impose the king's peace and build ships.

If Robb had understood time was on his side after a certain point, his position would've only got stronger.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

My point is Theon's treachery could've worked out incredibly well for Robb if he had responded correctly. A crisis can be an opportunity, and he squandered a massive one, is what I'm saying.

The Ironborn were there for easy pickings, not a sustained invasion. I doubt Robb would've even had to deal much with them once they heard of his return at the head of an army of northmen and rivermen.

With Winterfell retaken, Robb could've actually had a good think on the ways to best leverage his kingdom's resources. The Kings of Winter didn't have Hands, but Robb might've been inclined to adopt practical Southern traditions. With the Blackfish marshalling the Riverlands, Robb could've leveraged the Boltons, Glovers, Umbers and the Manderlys to fight remaining raiders, impose the king's peace and build ships.

If Robb had understood time was on his side after a certain point, his position would've only got stronger.

By the way, as we're on the subject of the Ironborn, what's with the ritual Euron is planning?

It is blood magic, probably the most potent power in the 'verse, but what is the intended effect?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

By the way, as we're on the subject of the Ironborn, what's with the ritual Euron is planning?

It is blood magic, probably the most potent power in the 'verse, but what is the intended effect?

I forget which character specifically but one of them has a vision of a large tower falling and we believe it’s the high tower of oldtown. Euron is probably summoning a kraken (?), a storm/wave or something else to destroy it.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

I forget which character specifically but one of them has a vision of a large tower falling and we believe it’s the high tower of oldtown. Euron is probably summoning a kraken (?), a storm/wave or something else to destroy it.

I thought something similar, but if all it takes is a lot of blood sacrifices and such, why has Euron assembled priests of practically every religion, among others?

With his would-be God ambitions, I wonder if it's to try to ascend as one? Apparently, in lore, the Bloodstone Emperor tried such things.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I thought something similar, but if all it takes is a lot of blood sacrifices and such, why has Euron assembled priests of practically every religion, among others?

With his would-be God ambitions, I wonder if it's to try to ascend as one? Apparently, in lore, the Bloodstone Emperor tried such things.

I think he’s just a mad warlock using hidden knowledge & secrets to his advantage. Iirc he was driven insane when he went to Valyria, maybe it has something to do with that

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

I think he’s just a mad warlock using hidden knowledge & secrets to his advantage. Iirc he was driven insane when he went to Valyria, maybe it has something to do with that

Well, he was a truly horrible person even before then, but when even Balerion was wounded going to Valyria, but he comes back unscathed and with a full set of VS scale armor, which not even Aegon the Conqueror had, that's definitely eyebrow-raising .