General & Others which Series had bigger Retcons? One Piece or Naruto

[TheAncientCenturion]

Then Naruto is revealed to be Minato's son, an Uzumaki, Kurama's jinchuriki, Jiraiya's and Asura's reincarnation, while Sasuke is Indra's reincarnation.

Same thing happened to Luffy, who’s related to a world famous marine, the most wanted man in the world, brothers with Gold Rogers son, taught by Rayleigh the pirate kings right hand man, inherited the strongest Devil fruit at a young age and is the spitting image of Joyboy, inherited CoC and voice of all things, prophesied to destroy fishman island, the person Roger is specifically waiting for to come around

it happens to every shonen protagonist

 

[Logiko]

A retcon is a reframing of a specific story element through the introduction of new elements.

This:

Is a retcon and a revelation
Just like Gear 5

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

The thing with Luffy's power is a retcon, solely because it was a Paramecia and now is a Mythical Zoan. Simple as that.

Now, Luffy's status as a chosen one type isn't really a retcon. Even as early as Roguetown, people were comparing him to Roger, then Kureha musing about the Will of D. So, even early on, we had an inkling this kid was going to be pretty special.

But Naruto was supposed to be a total underdog. An unlucky orphan who is a pariah and not particularly talented. Then it's revealed he's the son of the Kage and a direct descendant of their setting's version of Jesus. While actual underdog with no destiny, Rock Lee, gets absolutely shit. The whole theme of Naruto early on was with hard work, even a nobody can be somebody. But that became a total lie.

So, yeah, Oda's had some hiccups here and there...but he's not pissed in the mouth of the central theme of his story like Kishimoto did.

 

[Logiko]

Okay I'll go farther, One Piece is FULL of retcon, in fact, one of Oda's main narrative tool IS the retcon.

 

[Logiko]

Time people start understanding how storytelling works.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

No, it was his own choices that took him there. If Naruto didn’t learn under Jiraiya, learn & accept pain from Nagato and spare him, he never would’ve been able to take the kyuubi’s power for KCM and eventually befriend him and the other Bijuu.

More of his power can be attributed to his ideology which comes from Jiraiya than destiny. We even see destiny being malleable with the “Children of the prophecy” blindsiding the guy who gave the prophecy in the first place.

His “choice” that was guided by prophecy and destiny step by step. Neji was right there was no free will, everything that happened Naruto was destined to do to become great just like all Asura reincarnations

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

Naruto is still the better series because of tension fights and emotional moments. Also no Gear 5.

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

The thing with Luffy's power is a retcon, solely because it was a Paramecia and now is a Mythical Zoan. Simple as that.

Now, Luffy's status as a chosen one type isn't really a retcon. Even as early as Roguetown, people were comparing him to Roger, then Kureha musing about the Will of D. So, even early on, we had an inkling this kid was going to be pretty special.

But Naruto was supposed to be a total underdog. An unlucky orphan who is a pariah and not particularly talented. Then it's revealed he's the son of the Kage and a direct descendant of their setting's version of Jesus. While actual underdog with no destiny, Rock Lee, gets absolutely shit. The whole theme of Naruto early on was with hard work, even a nobody can be somebody. But that became a total lie.

So, yeah, Oda's had some hiccups here and there...but he's not pissed in the mouth of the central theme of his story like Kishimoto did.

Rock Lee has bad genetics. It’s all about genes at the end of the day 🧬 and that’s why Naruto is superior to OP.

 

[Cruxroux]

With or without retcons, Naruto is simply better.

 

[Reborn]

Same thing happened to Luffy, who’s related to a world famous marine, the most wanted man in the world, brothers with Gold Rogers son, taught by Rayleigh the pirate kings right hand man, inherited the strongest Devil fruit at a young age and is the spitting image of Joyboy, inherited CoC and voice of all things, prophesied to destroy fishman island, the person Roger is specifically waiting for to come around

it happens to every shonen protagonist

No it's not the same thing though.

Contrast is way more significant in Naruto for people to feel his character was retconned.

Naruto was portrayed as an underdog, talentless and a failure in contrast to talented Sasuke and others who were gifted or came from great lineage. He got portrayed as a character who will write his own destiny rather than having being handed to him through lineage or fate. People liked Naruto because of this specific thing and then it went completely out of picture.

Luffy never got portrayed as talentless and an outcast who has to prove everyone. Infact, we kicked off one piece with Luffy feeling that he's strong and with a df.

Then inherited will was already laid down in the beginning of one piece and Luffy story revolved more around freedom and nakama.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

With or without retcons, Naruto is simply better.

It's sure better at completely disregarding the core theme of it's story.

 

[Cruxroux]

It's sure better at completely disregarding the core theme of it's story.

Which is?

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Which is?

That hard work is what matters in life, and you make your own destiny.

Naruto: Actually the son of the previous Kage and the Jinchuriki, direct descendant of Ashura.

Rock Lee: Gets fuck all to do.

Neji: Dies in a pathetic manner, never escaping his fate.

 

[NikaInParis]

Funniest retcon in Naruto is how he apparently didn't have ANY friends at all, to the point he spent all his time alone.
Fast forward a few arcs and it turns out Shikamaru and Choji used to hang out with him and play all the time.

All prior to the academy ofc

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Funniest retcon in Naruto is how he apparently didn't have ANY friends at all, to the point he spent all his time alone.
Fast forward a few arcs and it turns out Shikamaru and Choji used to hang out with him and play all the time.

All prior to the academy ofc

http://imgur.com/a/NO8FtJA

Accurate Naruto childhood

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

His “choice” that was guided by prophecy and destiny step by step. Neji was right there was no free will, everything that happened Naruto was destined to do to become great just like all Asura reincarnations

no it wasn’t, it was guided by his life journey. Evidenced by the Child of the Prophecy turning into Children of the Prophecy because of Naruto’s independent decisions.

The story has never once been presented as predetermined

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

no it wasn’t, it was guided by his life journey. Evidenced by the Child of the Prophecy turning into Children of the Prophecy because of Naruto’s independent decisions.

The story has never once been presented as predetermined

You know what would have made that a lot easier to believe? Not actually have him be descended from Ninja Jesus.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

no it wasn’t, it was guided by his life journey. Evidenced by the Child of the Prophecy turning into Children of the Prophecy because of Naruto’s independent decisions.

The story has never once been presented as predetermined

It was literally destiny. The child of prophecy was just that one toad. Being a reincarnation of Asura destined him for greatness, all those personal choices were just guided by that destiny.

Did you just completely skip over the last arc of Naruto? This was literally stated outright:

http://imgur.com/a/GbzXGdy

 

[Cruxroux]

That hard work is what matters in life, and you make your own destiny.

Naruto: Actually the son of the previous Kage and the Jinchuriki, direct descendant of Ashura.

Rock Lee: Gets fuck all to do.

Neji: Dies in a pathetic manner, never escaping his fate.

This all boils down to real world 'Fate' exists or not. If it's pre decided than why bother trying and if it's not, then work hard to achieve anything.

But if a Baby learns to walk which is pre~determined, bound to happen, that's fate. But how he utlises it is upto him, if he keeps walking he will bump on some wall or some shit. But if he stops, that's his own will.

You can't deny the fact naruto worked hard and even harder later on.
When they were all chunin, Naruto wasn't even at the top, no destiny kicked in for him.
Hell Neji and Shikamaru were the ones to become Jonin first solely on merit and Hardwork.

Naruto only advantage back then was him being an Uzumaki, which helped him immesnly with Shadow clone because that requires a lot of life force and Uzumaki are known to have it.

But to hell everyone had their own advantages, Shika trio were all Kekkei genkei or some special jutsu user. Neji, Hinata and Sasuke had Sharingan and Byakugan. Shinzo was the collest guy around. Rocklee clowned a fuckin Jinchuriki and the list goes on. They all looked more impressive every now and then.

Coming to shippuden, all them choose to guy normal route after that.

- They all had access to learn from the best, they all had access to learning Senjutsu, they simply choose not to. Which was Sasuke and Naruto advantage which they gained themselves.

Post that, Naruto was training with two jonin to master a single jutsu. Sasuke was learning with Orochimaru. Both choose their path and worked on it again.

Then comes the sage jutsu and Sasuke getting Mangekyou, these powers have more downsides than plus sides. Too much of a risk, going blind vs turning into a stone, these are forbidden level jutsu we are talking about.
Yet they risked it, other didn't.

Someone like Conan managed to push obito to use Izanagi/Izanami. That should be enough to tell if one works hard enough they can topple such people.
Tsuchikage who got clowned by Madara in his young years, ended up learning Kekkei Tota.

Again it's all just hardwork at the end of the day. Some start with a huge advantage at hand and some don't.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

This all boils down to real world 'Fate' exists or not. If it's pre decided than why bother trying and if it's not, then work hard to achieve anything.

But if a Baby learns to walk which is pre~determined, bound to happen, that's fate. But how he utlises it is upto him, if he keeps walking he will bump on some wall or some shit. But if he stops, that's his own will.

You can't deny the fact naruto worked hard and even harder later on.
When they were all chunin, Naruto wasn't even at the top, no destiny kicked in for him.
Hell Neji and Shikamaru were the ones to become Jonin first solely on merit and Hardwork.

Naruto only advantage back then was him being an Uzumaki, which helped him immesnly with Shadow clone because that requires a lot of life force and Uzumaki are known to have it.

But to hell everyone had their own advantages, Shika trio were all Kekkei genkei or some special jutsu user. Neji, Hinata and Sasuke had Sharingan and Byakugan. Shinzo was the collest guy around. Rocklee clowned a fuckin Jinchuriki and the list goes on. They all looked more impressive every now and then.

Coming to shippuden, all them choose to guy normal route after that.

- They all had access to learn from the best, they all had access to learning Senjutsu, they simply choose not to. Which was Sasuke and Naruto advantage which they gained themselves.

Post that, Naruto was training with two jonin to master a single jutsu. Sasuke was learning with Orochimaru. Both choose their path and worked on it again.

Then comes the sage jutsu and Sasuke getting Mangekyou, these powers have more downsides than plus sides. Too much of a risk, going blind vs turning into a stone, these are forbidden level jutsu we are talking about.
Yet they risked it, other didn't.

Someone like Conan managed to push obito to use Izanagi/Izanami. That should be enough to tell if one works hard enough they can topple such people.
Tsuchikage who got clowned by Madara in his young years, ended up learning Kekkei Tota.

Again it's all just hardwork at the end of the day. Some start with a huge advantage at hand and some don't.

You know what would make this little speech more believable? If Naruto wasn't the reincarnation of Ashura.

All Kishimoto had to do was keep Naruto as a orphan of no particularly important descent and keep Sasuke as his asshole, privileged rival who had all this impressive lineage and stuff. But nope!

Say what you will about how OP handles fate and chosen ones, but as I said earlier, it wasn't pretending Luffy was some random kid on a island and then the chosen one reveal. It was early as Drum when we knew there was more to him. Then came Post-Enies Lobby.