Spoiler One Piece Chapter Spoiler 1196 Spoilers Discussion

[MegaSpider]

The whole “Sanji refusing to dodge because he has low sell worth” is just some nonsense Oda pulled out of his ass for this chapter

So WCI retconned Sanji with self-hate, that panel retconned the retcon of self-hate by dodging, and now this chapter retconned the retconned retcon by not dodging.

 

[soupongo]

The whole “Sanji refusing to dodge because he has low sell worth” is just some nonsense Oda pulled out of his ass for this chapter

It means that canonically, with Sanji being an observation haki specialist, he sensed Katakuri's presence and was afraid of death, which was too much for his own self masochism

....but not for Omen Killingham

 

[Shiroyru]

It means that canonically, with Sanji being an observation haki specialist, he sensed Katakuri's presence and was afraid of death, which was too much for his own self masochism

....but not for Omen Killingham

He’s dodged plenty of other non-lethal attacks before

 

[Halyup]

THIS IS TRASH. This is the equivalent of zoro not loving himself and becoming suicidal because of what kuina told him or how she treated him.

You hear how ASS that sounds?

They become oda angels accepting any crumbs

 

[HeroesNZ]

If sanji could dodge everything but chooses not to cuz he is into BDSM he could've taken him to safety, and saved someone his captain promised safety to.
Also vegapunk didn't want necessarily to die, he was ready to die which is different, and had a whole setup about it.
Still convinced it's not bad writing?

It's not that every single time Sanji's been hit in the history of the manga, he could've dodged and actively chose not to.

It's more that Sanji fights recklessly and takes more damage than he needs to because he doesn't care to protect himself half as much as he cares to protect others.

Now he's realising he needs to love himself too and that will boost his defensive abilities, in addition to later gaining CoC.

That doesn't mean he would've been able to do anything more to protect Vegapunk. Kizaru was simply massively faster and stronger than him.

 

[MegaSpider]

First hint to Sanji having a secret past in chapter 56, which opened on a 9 year old Sanji working on the Orbit without any explanation.

The name Vinsmoke did not appear until the last panel of chapter 812, that's 756 chapters later.

Mind you, Oda referenced Sanji's past in one some in every arc of preskip.

Not saying the North Blue past was a retcon, saying the self-hate was.

 

[Signman77]

The whole “Sanji refusing to dodge because he has low self worth” reminds me of when Oda weirdly kept insisting in WCI that Sanji is the nicest guy ever. Like sure, Sanji’s a kind dude, but nothing about his character writing suggested he was the nicest dude ever. There’s several SHs that are more kind than him

It's even worse because kindness isn't an "objective" metric.
Oda just opened a continuum in which Sanji is both unable to dodge every attack he took or able to dodge every attack he took and no one can prove which is which. Genuinely terrible writing.

 

[Halyup]

He’s dodged plenty of other non-lethal attacks before

He dodged queens laser , block kizaru laser but get hit by killingham

 

[soupongo]

He’s dodged plenty of other non-lethal attacks before

But none from Omen Killingham....

 

[Sir Yasheen]

The stella body is very material and Lilith isn't the same as stella vegapunk but a separate being (it's a theme of the arc w stussy).
Vegapunk would've preferred not to die. And Luffy maintaned his promise with a technicality.
And this is just the last arc. Sanji was overpowered countless times in the story, it's a battle manga, the crew is constantly in danger.
Should I think he could or could've not avoided it?
How do y'all like this shit?

Stussy has her own soul and Brain. Lilith is literally just making a new body for Stella to inhabit.

Sanji has always made it work till now, but now he’s hit a limit where he can no longer continue on while subconsciously holding himself back.

Cry all you want

 

[Signman77]

It's not that every single time Sanji's been hit in the history of the manga, he could've dodged and actively chose not to.

It's more that Sanji fights recklessly and takes more damage than he needs to because he doesn't care to protect himself half as much as he cares to protect others.

Now he's realising he needs to love himself too and that will boost his defensive abilities, in addition to later gaining CoC.

That doesn't mean he would've been able to do anything more to protect Vegapunk. Kizaru was simply massively faster and stronger than him.

I thought so too, but Ivankov specifically said he could dodge the Okamas attack and he choose not to, (Am I supposed to take he's into BSDM?) not that he fought recklessly agajnst them. Maybe they are fodder, but it'a such a vague statement.

 

[MegaSpider]

The whole “Sanji refusing to dodge because he has low self worth” reminds me of when Oda weirdly kept insisting in WCI that Sanji is the nicest guy ever. Like sure, Sanji’s a kind dude, but nothing about his character writing suggested he was the nicest dude ever. There’s several SHs that are more kind than him

Nice guy Sanji letting Zaza kidnap the kids and beat their mothers cause he doesn't want to kick a woman.

Ironically, isn't that self-love rather than self-sacrifice as he's prioritizing his chivalry over other peoples lives?

 

[Julius]

4 pages out of 17 for the flashback

Chapter has much more than it seems

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2110115660197941434

 

[Sir Yasheen]

The whole “Sanji refusing to dodge because he has low sell worth” is just some nonsense Oda pulled out of his ass for this chapter

Katakuri is just too slow for even restricted Sanji.

 

[Signman77]

Stussy has her own soul and Brain. Lilith is literally just making a new body for Stella to inhabit.

Sanji has always made it work till now, but now he’s hit a limit where he can no longer continue on while subconsciously holding himself back.

Cry all you want

Lilith also has her own soul and brain, she's a gemmation of Vegapunk but they developed into different entities while all being vegapunk. Hence york betrays them. It's again, a theme of the arc.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

You're arguing the quality of the action in that arc, not necessarily the tension. At no real point do we ever feel like the main characters are in any real danger. The closest we ever got to that was when Luffy died for a sec.

We're arguing two different things here lol

i felt tension

 

[Shiroyru]

But none from Omen Killingham....

That’s just a Killingham attack speed upscale

 

[soupongo]

If Sanji was fighting Super Sommers 2, he would likely get super serious and start dodging Gram. Against Omen Killingham, he's letting himself get beat up to *feel something*

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Lilith also has her own soul and brain, she's a gemmation of Vegapunk but they developed into different entities while all being vegapunk. Hence york betrays them. It's again, a theme of the arc.

Yes. And Lilith said she was bringing Stella back. She’s putting his soul and mind in a new body. But it’s still Stella

 

[Infitima]

If anyone else cannot understand Sanji's self-destructive courting of death vs suicidal.

Listen to this song and read the lyrics.