Controversial General Political Discussion

[Mathias]

@Logiko @Mathias

Calling my argument childish because I'm referencing a viral video is missing the point. I'm not saying that a small percentage of protesters looting a shop will make a million people abandon the protest. The point is that these incidents give right wing media ammunition to discredit the protests and shift public attention away from what people are actually protesting about. The fact that they've been trying to discredit the movement from the beginning doesn't contradict my argument, It reinforces it. The video is an example of how this style of protest in 2026 is self defeating, even if it's a small percentage, due to the nature of how super intelligence states operate. The protesters continuing to march and the public perception of the movement are two completely different things.

Honestly, my whole point is considering how French philosophers have historically been pioneers in revolutionary thought and tactics (while getting pretty much everything else wrong lol), I was hoping to see a different vision of what they had in store could look like this time around. Something that actually challenges the status quo rather than repeating the same tactics that aren't going to accomplish anything.

Anyway, it is what it is, Macros still gets slapped by his most likely transgender dad who is posing as his wife (or at least that's what Andrew Tate told me)

According to polls. A majority of people support what the protesters are asking for and even the protests themselves (55 to 69%). It goes up to 82% of people agreeing to having more teachers. 79% for better buildings.

I don't understand your point between French philosophers and this movement that has no leader.

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

Ok shifting from the France protests because I'm being misunderstood, I was gonna post this in the chapter thread but I'll post it here since y'all said you wanted a Gender Rights topic

How was anything that happened in 1196 transphobic? Literally the opposite imo

 

[Logiko]

One death (on top of another who died from falling).

All the indicators points to a street medic that we can see here in the video beginning at 1:41:43 (now take this with caution, we don't have a certainty about the information)

https://www.youtube.com/live/_fFe9zfI5OM?si=agM0BrM9UQ4auVcD&t=6105

(you can still see in 4k the police violence here)

Ok shifting from the France protests because I'm being misunderstood, I was gonna post this in the chapter thread but I'll post it here since y'all said you wanted a Gender Rights topic

How was anything that happened in 1196 transphobic? Literally the opposite imo

There is a legitimate criticism in this, and I will not blame trans people who consider these caricature as transmisogynistic indeed. Now, the contextuality of the chapter and the serie must also be taken into account. The serie tends to over caricature anything, and the problem of the okama until now, was the shallow depth of these caricature and their actual nature. This chapter, precisely dive into this and gives an actual amazing message on transidentity. As in despite being "funny" looking, these people are respectable in the love they give to themselves.

In fact, you can even say that from the moment Oda starts to brings that point forward, these women are humanized and depicted with a lot of impact visually, even if they look like macho mens in dresses.

I don't fully agree with it, but the critic here is legitimate.

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

One death (on top of another who died from falling).

All the indicators points to a street medic that we can see here in the video beginning at 1:41:43 (now take this with caution, we don't have a certainty about the information)

https://www.youtube.com/live/_fFe9zfI5OM?si=agM0BrM9UQ4auVcD&t=6105

(you can still see in 4k the police violence here)


There is a legitimate criticism in this, and I will not blame trans people who consider these caricature as transmisogynistic indeed. Now, the contextuality of the chapter and the serie must also be taken into account. The serie tends to over caricature anything, and the problem of the okama until now, was the shallow depth of these caricature and their actual nature. This chapter, precisely dive into this and gives an actual amazing message on transidentity. As in despite being "funny" looking, these people are respectable in the love they give to themselves.

In fact, you can even say that from the moment Oda starts to brings that point forward, these women are humanized and depicted with a lot of impact visually, even if they look like macho mens in dresses.

I don't fully agree with it, but the critic here is legitimate.

This is a case of someone being so concerned with being social justice conscious that they're looking for something to be offended by. One Piece caricatures pretty much everything, and the Okama are hardly an isolated example that warrants labeling Oda as transmisogynistic. That criticism would hold more weight if everyone else in the series were depicted as "normal" while the Okama were portrayed as exaggerated men in dresses. But as you said, the fact that they're seen as weirdos by everyone else while embodying some the strongest self love in the series makes it illegitimate to argue that Oda's intention is to demean or hurt a particular community

 

[Logiko]

This is a case of someone being so concerned with being social justice conscious that they're looking for something to be offended by.

No it can legitimatly hurt

One Piece caricatures pretty much everything, and the Okama are hardly an isolated example that warrants labeling Oda as transmisogynistic.

The problem to me is not really the transmisogynic caricature and rather the fact that these trans people are actively hunting for Sanji, which is a transphobic moral panic. This is not fundamentally damaging for me, especially when we compare the actual message of Oda, it's a panels in a thousand others, but I can understand how it can be taken.

the fact that they're seen as weirdos by everyone else while embodying some the strongest self love in the series makes it illegitimate to argue that Oda's intention is to demean or hurt a particular community

I agree, Oda is not trying to hurt them and actually care to make the right message, the problem is that the guy has a vision of the way this should be done and when he finds something funny, it's hard for him to then stop and reflect. It's that contradictory mindset that makes his story great, but it can make it look like a boomer sometimes on certain subjects, even if it is done with love in mind.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I think publicly beatings could be a useful way to punish and rehabilitate violent and heinous criminals.

I think one issue with modern justice is that it is insincere. We outlawed the punishments of the past because they were “too brutal”, but I feel like people failed to realize that the brutality served a purpose.
And while the law theoretically became less brutal, the people never did. And as a result the brutality never went away, it merely changed form.

To truly rehabilitate a criminal, the government must resolve the public’s relationship to the criminal. The public rightfully hates the criminal and wishes to see him be punished for his crimes.

In order for the government to rehabilitate someone such as a rapist, they need to first resolve the public’s anger with the individual before rebuilding the person with the proper support.

The issue with prison is that the brutality of prison is too abstract for the public to properly grasp. Do you know what 5 years in prison is like? How am I supposed to know this is an adequate punishment for a wicked person? If the public cannot properly understand the depth of the punishment, they’re not going to support rehabilitation and reintegration.

So rather than abstracting the brutality of punishment behind something like prison, why not just be up front about it for both the criminal and the public to witness. Why not publicly beat the shit out of particularly violent and heinous criminals?

it is harsh and brutal, but in seeing the harshness of the punishment first hand, they’re public gains sympathy for the offender. This then allows for the offender to be redeemed and reintegrated.

I think harsher punishment allows for more unconditional rehabilitation.

 

[Logiko]

I think publicly beatings could be a useful way to punish and rehabilitate violent and heinous criminals.

I think one issue with modern justice is that it is insincere. We outlawed the punishments of the past because they were “too brutal”, but I feel like people failed to realize that the brutality served a purpose.
And while the law theoretically became less brutal, the people never did. And as a result the brutality never went away, it merely changed form.

You really have no idea where the violence comes from, right?

The issue with prison is that the brutality of prison is too abstract for the public to properly grasp. Do you know what 5 years in prison is like? How am I supposed to know this is an adequate punishment for a wicked person? If the public cannot properly understand the depth of the punishment, they’re not going to support rehabilitation and reintegration.

Prisons are not made for punishment, they are made to exile a criminal from the group in order ot "keep the collectivity safe" or as they say.

Why not publicly beat the shit out of particularly violent and heinous criminals?

This is called an authoritarian state policy, also used in circus in in ancient times. This is the very definition of barbarism.

Again, prison are not here to punish, they are here, officially to keep people safe and unofficially to justify the repression of the state against the marginalized stratus of society. Because spoilers : people that go in prison are not the top of the bunch, it's the weak, the marginalized, the crippled, the racialized, the toxico, the dealers, the poor.

Punishment do not prevent crimes or create rehabilitation. Punishement creates trauma, trauma creates precarity and isolation, and all of this results in violences.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

This is called an authoritarian state policy, also used in circus in in ancient times. This is the very definition of barbarism.

Again, prison are not here to punish, they are here, officially to keep people safe and unofficially to justify the repression of the state against the marginalized stratus of society. Because spoilers : people that go in prison are not the top of the bunch, it's the weak, the marginalized, the crippled, the racialized, the toxico, the dealers, the poor.

Punishment do not prevent crimes or create rehabilitation. Punishement creates trauma, trauma creates precarity and isolation, and all of this results in violences.

People are barbaric. The state wielding the stick allows for barbarism to be controlled and channeled in a constructive manner.

punishment is a necessity for rehabilitation because rehabilitation isn’t a one way streak. It’s not simply about the offender, but rather the public’s relationship to the offender.

if a man is convicted of rape—a terrible and heinous crime, how is the public to reintegrate him? How do we know this person is to be trusted again? Wouldn’t people wish to see this person suffer? If the state doesn’t grant that wish, giving the public justice, then they will never accept the individual.

prison is a form of justice. But it’s imperfect because it’s too abstract. I think displaying the offender’s suffering for all to see, via a public beating, grants the people the retribution they desire and allows for an individual to be fully restored afterward.

Also it’s not as if prison is somehow better. I’d argue it is worse. It literally drains a person’s life away over the course of years, and it’s not like they aren’t subjected to violence in prison.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

People are barbaric. The state wielding the stick allows for barbarism to be controlled and channeled in a constructive manner.

punishment is a necessity for rehabilitation because rehabilitation isn’t a one way streak. It’s not simply about the offender, but rather the public’s relationship to the offender.

if a man is convicted of rape—a terrible and heinous crime, how is the public to reintegrate him? How do we know this person is to be trusted again? Wouldn’t people wish to see this person suffer? If the state doesn’t grant that wish, giving the public justice, then they will never accept the individual.

prison is a form of justice. But it’s imperfect because it’s too abstract. I think displaying the offender’s suffering for all to see, via a public beating, grants the people the retribution they desire and allows for an individual to be fully restored afterward.

Also it’s not as if prison is somehow better. I’d argue it is worse. It literally drains a person’s life away over the course of years, and it’s not like they aren’t subjected to violence in prison.

You know if you want to see some violence, you can just watch a Stallone movie.

 

[Logiko]

People are barbaric.

No People are not barbaric. People are made barbaric.

The state wielding the stick allows for barbarism to be controlled and channeled in a constructive manner.

No, it only creates more barbarism

punishment is a necessity for rehabilitation because rehabilitation isn’t a one way streak.

No it's not. Education, time, investment are needed for rehabilitation.

You do not repair someone by adding more violence.

if a man is convicted of rape—a terrible and heinous crime, how is the public to reintegrate him?

I know I'm talking with GPT here, but the public is not the question. The question here is, how can society reintegrate it. NOT the public itself.

How do we know this person is to be trusted again?

You don't, and you don't have to. It's not up to you. It's up to the system to create the right condition for said rehabilitation to work. And this can't be done with more violence or complete exclusion or complete repression.

Prison and punishment do not deter crimes, they create precarity.

Wouldn’t people wish to see this person suffer?

Perhaps, but that's why it's not up to them.

If the state doesn’t grant that wish, giving the public justice, then they will never accept the individual.

They don't have to.
Accountability is not forgiveness.

You can be a human being with someone you do not forgive. It's called being a social human being. If you start creating violence each time you can't forgive someone, you are not an healthy part of society no more.

prison is a form of justice

No, it's a repression center aimed at reenforcing the interest of the capital by assigning the legitimate marginalization, repression and isolation of already oppressed people.

It's state violence, pure and simple.

But it’s imperfect because it’s too abstract.

No, it's really not abstract, it's just not the right solution. The solution is abolitionism and the creation of the condition in which crimes do not happen in the first place.

I think displaying the offender’s suffering for all to see, via a public beating, grants the people the retribution they desire and allows for an individual to be fully restored afterward.

No, it's just fascism.

Also it’s not as if prison is somehow better. I’d argue it is worse. It literally drains a person’s life away over the course of years, and it’s not like they aren’t subjected to violence in prison.

And your answer is to do the same thing, but differently and physically.

This is stupid, fascistic and barbaric.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I know I'm talking with GPT here, but the public is not the question. The question here is, how can society reintegrate it. NOT the public itself.


You don't, and you don't have to. It's not up to you. It's up to the system to create the right condition for said rehabilitation to work. And this can't be done with more violence or complete exclusion or complete repression.

Prison and punishment do not deter crimes, they create precarity.


Perhaps, but that's why it's not up to them.



They don't have to.
Accountability is not forgiveness.

You can be a human being with someone you do not forgive. It's called being a social human being. If you start creating violence each time you can't forgive someone, you are not an healthy part of society no more.

The oldest and most basic moral code is an eye for an eye. Though that particular phrasing is Abrahamic, such ideas exist in most cultures(ex. karma in Asian cultures).

If a man inflicts physical suffering onto others, how does he atone for his sins? Would it not be by himself enduring suffering?

 

[Logiko]

The oldest and most basic moral code is an eye for an eye. Though that particular phrasing is Abrahamic, such ideas exist in most cultures(ex. karma in Asian cultures).

If a man inflicts physical suffering onto others, how does he atone for his sins? Would it not be by himself enduring suffering?

One does not atone for their sins, they work their way to creates the necessary conditions for said sins not to happen again as well as the necessary reparations to restore the balance of society and justice.

You do not create an healthy and functionning society by forcing forgiveness on people, but by conditionning a society in which we don't have to forgive people

To find solutions, look toward the future, not the past

 

[Monkey D Theories]

One does not atone for their sins, they work their way to creates the necessary conditions for said sins not to happen again as well as the necessary reparations to restore the balance of society and justice.

You do not create an healthy and functionning society by forcing forgiveness on people, but by conditionning a society in which we don't have to forgive people

To find solutions, look toward the future, not the past

How does that even work? Society works via one man’s relationship to another.

Acts of evil damage that relationship. It undermines the trust one has in their fellow man, a trust that is the building block of society.

How do you fix this relationship if not by creating a situation where forgiveness is accessible to the offender? How do you do that without retribution?

 

[Logiko]

How does that even work? Society works via one man’s relationship to another.

I will give you a secret: When the material needs of people are met, anger vanishes away.

This means that a society that meets all the necessary material needs of the entire collective creates the conditions for forgiveness to flourish by itself. There is no reason for anyone to keep the anger going if the system is just and ethical.

Acts of evil damage that relationship. It undermines the trust one has in their fellow man, a trust that is the building block of society.

You do not live outside of society. You are part of society. In consequences what impacts society impacts you and therefore the way to heal yourself from pain and anger, is to heal the entire society, people who commit evil acts included.

This is not an utopia. This is a mathematical and logical reasonning based on the notions of systems, materialism, and socialisms.

If your quest is to add violence to a problem that cannot be fixed with violence, you will never create an healthy society. Violence is needed when it is needed, do not use it against the people, use it against the institutions that create the violent systems.

How do you fix this relationship if not by creating a situation where forgiveness is accessible to the offender? How do you do that without retribution?

By thinking beyond.

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

This is what happens when Nameless and Herrea are gone, I need to create threads like this to keep myself entertained
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/was-signman77-cruxroux.89851/

 

[Logiko]

One death (on top of another who died from falling).

All the indicators points to a street medic that we can see here in the video beginning at 1:41:43 (now take this with caution, we don't have a certainty about the information)

https://www.youtube.com/live/_fFe9zfI5OM?si=agM0BrM9UQ4auVcD&t=6105

(you can still see in 4k the police violence here)

Seems like this was a false alarm. The guy is safe. We are still searching for informations on the one who actually died. And there was another death at Chatelet, Paris btw. Police violence too it seems.

Now, this doesn't negate the actual violence that you can see here so check it up please. This is what protesters are facing in France.

 

[Mathias]

Just seen a clip from the Lula debate. Flávio Bolsonaro asks why 73% of prisoners vote for him and Lula answers that he wants 100% of them including his dad Jair Bolsonaro

 

[Logiko]

Just seen a clip from the Lula debate. Flávio Bolsonaro asks why 73% of prisoners vote for him and Lula answers that he wants 100% of them including his dad Jair Bolsonaro

I saw that, that guy has aura

 

[Midnight Delight]

This is what happens when Nameless and Herrea are gone, I need to create threads like this to keep myself entertained
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/was-signman77-cruxroux.89851/

You lost
To @K!NG HARA$H!MA

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

You lost
To @K!NG HARA$H!MA

I would neg Harashima with all due respect