Chapter Discussion Is Zoro nerf?

[ShinmenTakezo]

What do you believe ?

Is Zoro nerf or not ?

Is Enma a Magical sword ?

Of course he is not nerfed...
Even claiming the statement holds any relevance compared to Shusui is not substantiated by anything.
Zoro is only comparing what he accomplished to bring out of Enma vs what he imagined he might bring out, so it´s directly related to his statement "i will be much stronger once i master Enma"

 

[Garp the Fist]

And Zoro has gotten used to it. Current chapter shows that Enma has its own power Zoro needs to use now. Cmon show that panel too

He very clealry hasn’t got used to it, that’s what he’s saying this chapter. It’s no longer making him completely useless after one attack, like the first time he tried to use Enma, but it’s still not fully under his control

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Nope he didn't confirm anything.

You guys can't read. Or pretend to know the truth.

He says I need more of Enma's power which can very well mean " I can't use its full power yet because I lack mastery " instead of " Enma grants me additional power that I can't utilize yet "

You’re saying the quote “Enmas Power” doesn’t mean that Enma grants Zoro additional power... you can’t read then man because what more needs to be spelled out.

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

And Zoro has gotten used to it. Current chapter shows that Enma has its own power Zoro needs to use now. Cmon show that panel too

No he hasn't Enma doesnt have his own power otherwise hitetsu the master swordsmith and the man who forged Enmas twin would have said something about it

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

That’s comparing apples to oranges. Luffy’s gears and Zoro’s swords are very different conceptually.

Enma is a sword that Zoro cannot use to his fullest potential yet. He could with Shusui. Enma has a higher ceiling for Zoro, and when he can use it fully he’ll be stronger than he is with Shusui. That moment hasn’t arrived yet, but will later in the fight.

And what tells you that his current mastery of Enma in terms of applying it is below the full potential of Shusui?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

He very clealry hasn’t got used to it, that’s what he’s saying this chapter. It’s no longer making him completely useless after one attack, like the first time he tried to use Enma, but it’s still not fully under his control

Is he able to utilize it as if it’s a normal blade? Yes. He’s done it throughout the raid.
So how has he not gotten used to it... Enma has its own power that Zoro is now trying to tap into. That’s all there is.

 

[HA001]

You’re saying the quote “Enmas Power” doesn’t mean that Enma grants Zoro additional power... you can’t read then man because what more needs to be spelled out.

Enma does not have its own power.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Enma does not have its own power.

Canon says it does

 

[Finalbeta]

You’re saying the quote “Enmas Power” doesn’t mean that Enma grants Zoro additional power... you can’t read then man because what more needs to be spelled out.

You can't read because you can't read through lines, this is what I meant. No offence anyways.

More of Enma's power doesn't necessarily imply any additional power compared to the other o wazamono, but Zoro perhaps lacks mastery so he can't use Enma's full power

Enma 100
Any other O wazamono 100

Zoro can use 80 (?) and not 100

 

[HA001]

Canon says it does

No canon says it does.
Canon says it uses its holders ryou.
No where does it say enma has its own power.

 

[Roronoa-sama]

Then what were the points of him training for two weeks? What’s the point of showcasing he is capable of wielding Enma as if it’s a normal blade?
Zoro on the roof > Zoro two weeks ago. He’s grown stronger himself now he just needs to peruse the power within Enma better.

yes, zoro is now stronger than two week ago the problem is he still doesn't control enma so he use a least power with enma and others swords (because he must align his power between his three swords) and this do he doesn't uses all his power.
i do one example for undesrtaning more
Two weeks ago zoro have 100 (3 swords) power and now he have 150 power (it's great progress). The question this power must splite in 3 (the same each sword) but zoro doesn't controll enma so he uses less power for controlling.
so Two week ago: 33.33 power each swords while now if he'd controlled enma 50 power but he only use half 25 power (75 power)

 

[Sir Yasheen]

You can't read because you can't read through lines, this is what I meant. No offence anyways.

More of Enma's power doesn't necessarily imply any additional power compared to the other o wazamono, but Zoro perhaps lacks mastery so he can't use Enma's full power

Enma 100
Any other O wazamono 100

Zoro can use 80 (?) and not 100

Again what has to be said for you to accept Enma has its own power? I’m curious what quote does Oda have to have Zoro say for you to accept that? Because it seems your just backing up headcanon with more headcanon

Post automatically merged: Jan 15, 2021

No canon says it does.
Canon says it uses its holders ryou.
No where does it say enma has its own power.

“Enmas Power” what more could be said to make you accept it

 

[Garp the Fist]

And what tells you that his current mastery of Enma in terms of applying it is below the full potential of Shusui?

General story telling. There’s no point him getting a new sword if it doesn’t eventually make him stronger.

But it’s also the case that Shusui was brilliant sword in it’s own right- we aren’t talking about Yubashiri here, we’re talking about one of the only two black blades we know about in existence, famed trasure of Wano, sword of Ryuma, equal in rank to Enma. It was a damned good sword.

Enma has forced Zoro to develop in a way that Shusui couldn’t have done, and we also know that one day, Zoro can make it even better- a supreme grade in it’s own right. But that day hasn’t came yet. Right now, Zoro is still showing difficulty in using it. He would not have that difficulty if he was using Shusui right now- but he also wouldn’t have the opportunity for growth.

Enma is, pardon the pun, a double edged sword. He will get stronger with it, but until it’s mastered, Zoro’s disadvantaged in a way that he wouldn’t be with Shusui.

 

[HA001]

General story telling. There’s no point him getting a new sword if it doesn’t eventually make him stronger.

But it’s also the case that Shusui was brilliant sword in it’s own right- we aren’t talking about Yubashiri here, we’re talking about one of the only two black blades we know about in existence, famed trasure of Wano, sword of Ryuma, equal in rank to Enma. It was a damned good sword.

Enma has forced Zoro to develop in a way that Shusui couldn’t have done, and we also know that one day, Zoro can make it even better- a supreme grade in it’s own right. But that day hasn’t came yet. Right now, Zoro is still showing difficulty in using it. He would not have that difficulty if he was using Shusui right now- but he also wouldn’t have the opportunity for growth.

Enma is, pardon the pun, a double edged sword. He will get stronger with it, but until it’s mastered, Zoro’s disadvantaged in a way that he wouldn’t be with Shusui.

Yup. The potential for enma when it becomes a kokuto surpasses shusui. So its worth it in the end.

 

[Finalbeta]

Again what has to be said for you to accept Enma has its own power? I’m curious what quote does Oda have to have Zoro say for you to accept that? Because it seems your just backing up headcanon with more headcanon

Post automatically merged: Jan 15, 2021

“Enmas Power” what more could be said to make you accept it

It's not headcanon

It's common sense

 

[Sir Yasheen]

It's not headcanon

It's common sense

No cmon tell me what quote will finally convince you Enma is a power up of the current chapter quote didnt?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Is he able to utilize it as if it’s a normal blade? Yes. He’s done it throughout the raid.
So how has he not gotten used to it... Enma has its own power that Zoro is now trying to tap into. That’s all there is.

Enma does not have “it’s own power.” There is no hidden store of Haki inside Enma that Zoro will be able to tap into and make stronger.

What makes Enma special is that it forcibly takes it user’s Haki out when the user doesn’t want it to do it. It’s a balancing act of a sword, and Zoro hasn’t got the balance right yet.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Enma does not have “it’s own power.” There is no hidden store of Haki inside Enma that Zoro will be able to tap into and make stronger.

What makes Enma special is that it forcibly takes it user’s Haki out when the user doesn’t want it to do it. It’s a balancing act of a sword, and Zoro hasn’t got the balance right yet.

If that’s the case how come Zoro himself mentioned Enmas own power rather than saying he hasn’t gotten used to it like he did with Shusui

 

[Finalbeta]

No cmon tell me what quote will finally convince you Enma is a power up of the current chapter quote didnt?

I mean why do I need to believe that Enma is 120 and the o wazamono are 100 and Zoro can't use 120 when it can very well be that Enma is 100 and Zoro still needs more of its power and can currently only make use of 80?

It's more intuitive to say that Enma is just as strong as an o wazamono being one too when his phrase can very well mean what I'm suggesting due his lack of mastery

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I mean why do I need to believe that Enma is 120 and the o wazamono are 100 and Zoro can't use 120 when it can very well be that Enma is 100 and Zoro still needs more of its power and can currently only make use of 80?

It's more intuitive to say that Enma is just as strong as an o wazamono being one too when his phrase can very well mean what I'm suggesting due his lack of mastery

If it worked like that why is Yoru the strongest blade in the world and not the other saijos?

Zoro himself saying Enma has its own power and you’re just trying to use headcanon to say that your ideas make more sense than canon at this point. And I keep asking you what needs to be said for you to realize Enma has its own power that Zoros other swords don’t and you won’t answer it? Because what Zoro himself said is pretty straightforward