Chapter Discussion Is Zoro nerf?

[M944]

Through usage of Enma, Zoro's ryuo will become stronger and/or his control and mastery over it will improve.

Am I in a time loop ?
He didn't need to improve his control as only Enma make this issue. If he does Enma needs to give him an advantage
I don't know where it's stated using a sword makes your ryou stronger.
This is just an headcannon to justify an other headcannon
Enma is a P. U that Zoro needs to be used like every others swords he gets.
Swords give him boosts if he manages to control them

 

[Doggo]

It's kinda retarded if he decided to nerf himself going against a yonko.
So, for the sake of Oda not making Zoro and Hyori, who asked him to swap weapon, dumb as fuck, I'm gonna say "no". He is indeed stronger with Enma, but still have ways to go.

Am I in a time loop ?
He didn't need to improve his control as only Enma make this issue. If he does Enma needs to give him an advantage
I don't know where it's stated using a sword makes your ryou stronger.
This is just an headcannon to justify an other headcannon
Enma is a P. U that Zoro needs to be used like every others swords he gets.
Swords give him boosts if he manages to control them

During his training, Mihawk states that if you can control your Haki well enough, all of Zoro's blades could become black blades. Which is funny, because Shuusui was right there, and Mihawk NEVER mentioned anything about it. We only learn that Shuusui is special like Mihawk's weapon, with the swordsmith in Wano.
Seriously? Not a single "oh look at that, you have a permanent black blade already. You need to reach a level where you others swords can become black as well".

 

[stairs-kun]

Zoro always nerfed, thats why he's badass.

 

[M944]

It's kinda retarded if he decided to nerf himself going against a yonko.
So, for the sake of Oda not making Zoro and Hyori, who asked him to swap weapon, dumb as fuck, I'm gonna say "no". He is indeed stronger with Enma, but still have ways to go.


During his training, Mihawk states that if you can control your Haki well enough, all of Zoro's blades could become black blades. Which is funny, because Shuusui was right there, and Mihawk NEVER mentioned anything about it. We only learn that Shuusui is special like Mihawk's weapon, with the swordsmith in Wano.
Seriously? Not a single "oh look at that, you have a permanent black blade already. You need to reach a level where you others swords can become black as well".

Yeah it's weird. I think he talked about it a little bit.
This whole scene is weird if I remember well he also said no alchool before you reached that level but Zoro drinks Sake
Swords are something not clear for now I wait for more pieces of informations.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I think this is a reasonable interpretation. It's not currently the interpretation I share, but it's not too implausible. I guess time will tell if it's correct.

Expanding bit on that.

We know Zoro can use Ryou but can he achieve this? Simply because he knows how to use Ryou?
We know many characters can use Ryou but we have never seen them clash like Roger and WB did.
So answer is "Probably not".

Enma helps Zoro in this for now, to out more Haki than he normally can to cut open Kaidou. Trying to control Enma will boost Zoro to learn this faster by his final fight with Mihawk. He needed to learn to control it to not waste Haki unnecessarily and not get killed while attempting to open Kaidou.

@Garp the Fist i think i previously wasn't able to properly make my points clear to you.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Am I in a time loop ?
He didn't need to improve his control as only Enma make this issue. If he does Enma needs to give him an advantage
I don't know where it's stated using a sword makes your ryou stronger.
This is just an headcannon to justify an other headcannon
Enma is a P. U that Zoro needs to be used like every others swords he gets.
Swords give him boosts if he manages to control them

Zoro says that getting use to Enma will make him stronger. Enma was a nerf when Zoro initially picked it up. Yes Zoro gets better after mastering his Zoro. It means the Sword Bends to his Will, which is what Swordsmanship is about

 

[Cinera]

It's kinda retarded if he decided to nerf himself going against a yonko.
So, for the sake of Oda not making Zoro and Hyori, who asked him to swap weapon, dumb as fuck, I'm gonna say "no". He is indeed stronger with Enma, but still have ways to go.

Zoro not using Koka on his attack already makes him retarded. Zoro didn't take Enma because it made him immediately stronger, he took Enma as a trade in for Shusui (which Hiyori begged him to return). He'll become stronger after mastering Enma, but he hasn't yet.

Unless Enma is the reason Zoro didn't use Koka, Zoro isn't nerfed, he's just retarded.

Expanding bit on that.

We know Zoro can use Ryou but can he achieve this? Simply because he knows how to use Ryou?
We know many characters can use Ryou but we have never seen them clash like Roger and WB did.
So answer is "Probably not".

Enma helps Zoro in this for now, to out more Haki than he normally can to cut open Kaidou. Trying to control Enma will boost Zoro to learn this faster by his final fight with Mihawk. He needed to learn to control it to not waste Haki unnecessarily and not get killed while attempting to open Kaidou.

@Garp the Fist i think i previously wasn't able to properly make my points clear to you.

Zoro did not use Koka in the latest chapter. It seems he was holding back on the haki he released through Enma and was saying he needs to release more.

We should wait for more chapters, but so far, Enma hasn't helped him release more haki.

I do think the idea of Enma letting Zoro release more haki than he can ordinarily is interesting, and I can see it happen. We'll see whether Oda takes that route.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

oda needs to show progression
having zoro use enma to its full potential right off the bat like prime oden will be shitty . even shusui had a bit of a learning curve. so he isnt nerfed , he is right where he is supposed to be.

he isnt nerfed
he is getting used to it. how much ryou he needs to use and how much he needs to restrain.

 

[Garp the Fist]

What Enma does is pretty simple. It doesn’t allow you to use more Haki than what you actually have. That’s impossible, and may actually kill you.

Haki is a finite source, right? We know that, Luffy‘s said at much in Dressrosa when he ran out against Doflamingo and had to wait 15 mins for it to recover.

So you have Zoro. Zoro hasn’t attacked anyone yet. At this stage, he has his Haki at 100%. He’s fresh and ready to fight.

Say he does an attack like Onigiri, using Hardening, but not using Enma. His Haki reserves then go down 5%, he’s used 5% of his Haki.

Zoro then waits five minutes, and his Haki reserves are back up to 100%. He decides to try and cut a tree, using Enma, but without using Haki.

Enma does not then make Zoro use 200% of his Haki. That‘s impossible, and i think would probably kill him. What it does is draws out all 100% of his Haki, despite him wanting to use 0%. That makes his attack much more powerful than intended, destroying the entire cliff that the tree is on.

It’s also a terrible way to fight, as Zoro is now down to 0% Haki reserves and is totally useless. He has to fight with the sword to try and recover some Haki. He has cut more than what he intends, and a good swordsman only cuts what he wants to cut. That’s the heart of Ryou, what Zoro did against Mr 1, and what Oda brought back in Udon as the first step for Luffy learning internal destruction Haki.

So when Zoro’s using Enma, every attack is a fight with the sword. He’s having told it back from taking everything he has and leaving him useless. That’s why his attack failed to the damage he wanted it to this chapter.

But the advantage of Enma is that by training with it, and using it, you can gradually increase your ability and strength in using CoA. It’s a bit like weightlifting, if a beginner tries and go for the heaviest weight they’ll snap their arms in half. Work gradually up though, and their strength will grow incrementally with it.

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

- Well anime showed and explained that Zoro just tried to cut the bambo with his full strength but after that enma draining ability appeared yet again and something has to be known Zoro new swords always get mastered in action / fight not just from a simple training sandai / yubashiri / shusui all of them got used by Zoro mid battle though not by swinging the blade around bambos or some trees but by using them in combination with his techniques .

 

[sanjikun]

Short answer: Yes. He did train A BIT, but that training doesn't make up for the fact that he can't use his best blade properly.

But by the end of the arc, he'll definitely be stronger than what he was in Dressrosa.

 

[Fujishiro]

we've seen than zoro can't still control enma so do you think this zoro is weaker than zoro with shushui?

No

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2021

Anyone who’s coming on rn and honestly saying that he’s weaker, that he made himself weaker coming into a fight he yelled at luffy at to be serious about. A matter of life or death.

Is biased and their opinion should be dismissed.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

What Enma does is pretty simple. It doesn’t allow you to use more Haki than what you actually have. That’s impossible, and may actually kill you.

Haki is a finite source, right? We know that, Luffy‘s said at much in Dressrosa when he ran out against Doflamingo and had to wait 15 mins for it to recover.

So you have Zoro. Zoro hasn’t attacked anyone yet. At this stage, he has his Haki at 100%. He’s fresh and ready to fight.

Say he does an attack like Onigiri, using Hardening, but not using Enma. His Haki reserves then go down 5%, he’s used 5% of his Haki.

Zoro then waits five minutes, and his Haki reserves are back up to 100%. He decides to try and cut a tree, using Enma, but without using Haki.

Enma does not then make Zoro use 200% of his Haki. That‘s impossible, and i think would probably kill him. What it does is draws out all 100% of his Haki, despite him wanting to use 0%. That makes his attack much more powerful than intended, destroying the entire cliff that the tree is on.

It’s also a terrible way to fight, as Zoro is now down to 0% Haki reserves and is totally useless. He has to fight with the sword to try and recover some Haki. He has cut more than what he intends, and a good swordsman only cuts what he wants to cut. That’s the heart of Ryou, what Zoro did against Mr 1, and what Oda brought back in Udon as the first step for Luffy learning internal destruction Haki.

So when Zoro’s using Enma, every attack is a fight with the sword. He’s having told it back from taking everything he has and leaving him useless. That’s why his attack failed to the damage he wanted it to this chapter.

But the advantage of Enma is that by training with it, and using it, you can gradually increase your ability and strength in using CoA. It’s a bit like weightlifting, if a beginner tries and go for the heaviest weight they’ll snap their arms in half. Work gradually up though, and their strength will grow incrementally with it.

honestly it reminds me a bit of g4
letting it drain his haki in exchange for more disastrous cuts that leaves him drained is bad

at the same time holding it back to the point where no ryou is exuded is also bad
I like the way its been set up.

 

[Cinera]

No

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2021

Anyone who’s coming on rn and honestly saying that he’s weaker, that he made himself weaker coming into a fight he yelled at luffy at to be serious about. A matter of life or death.

Is biased and their opinion should be dismissed.

It's not as if Zoro had the option of using Shusui in the upcoming battle. Using Shusui wasn't an option, and mastering Enma would make him stronger. He just hasn't mastered it yet. He'll adapt to it over the course of the battle and grow over the course of the battle.

In his opening attack, Zoro didn't use Koka. If Enma is the reason he didn't use Koka, then that's a significant hindrance to his combat ability, until he can work around it.