Controversial The "World Draft" is lazy writing

[grey matter]

I love the notion that there are top tier characters out there who we’ve never met or heard of. The notion that every single top tier must be some legend of worldwide renown who everyone has heard of and tells stories about, is a notion propagated by 14 year old basement dwellers who have no actual clue how the world works. Notoriety/Fame =//////= actual strength.

You know how many monstrously strong/skilled lifters/athletes/fighters there are in the real world who no one has ever heard of? Thousands easily if not far more. You know how many professional athletes there are out there who sports teams literally just pulled off of the street? You should look it up because the numbers will shock you. Michael Lewis for example was an NFL kick off returner who before he played in the NFL, he drove beer delivery trucks, I shit you not.

So yeah, I absolutely love the notion that there are top tier motherfuckers out there who we’ve never heard of before. Issho and Aramaki in particular are quite awesome, these are two guys with ideals too extreme for the World Government who are now suddenly expected to uphold the Government’s agenda. That dynamic is so much more interesting to me than Aokiji and Kizaru who, while having their own ideals and opinions and such, were ultimately offer followers who would never go against the grain in huge ways like Issho and Aramaki do.

And for Oda to show us two wildcard Admirals who don’t follow orders, he had to first show us Admirals like Aokiji and Kizaru who mostly followed orders. These characters complement each other in that way.

I hear you.

While true for real world, in OP you don't get top tiers who haven't gone through several fights.
Because haki blooms in intense battle, there is a limit to how much training can do for you. I would argue same sort of applies to DFs as well.

Oden, who was a true genetic monster, capped at like YC1 level in Wano before going out with Whitebeard. This was after fighting many opponents like Shutenmaru.
Kaido surely wasn't some top tier as a rookie in Rocks crew, and he was a fighting maniac and has peak genetics.

Here is the issue though.
You cannot reach top tier without having several battles amongst which at least some become life threatening. Such strength comes through constant evolution.

Can you think of scenarios where you go around fighting like that, where you aren't a marine/govt-agent or a pirate/criminal?

Such fights become legendary level once you get near top tier.

Shanks and Mihawk presumably weren't solid top tiers 12 years ago, yet their duels back then were legendary and echoed through the grand line

 

[Mr. Tuna Sandwich]

Revolutionaries are criminals too.

We never heard of unaffiliated civilians being top tiers.

Like how Elizabello's King Punch can overpower one of the Four Emperors?
Just imagine if Elizabello ate the Strong Strong Fruit

Now seriously, powerful individuals can appear anywhere, for exemple Enel or Oden (before he became a pirate), natural born monsters and powerful DF users aren't exclusively sailors.

 

[Phantaminium4]

Now seriously, powerful individuals can appear anywhere, for exemple Enel or Oden (before he became a pirate), natural born monsters and powerful DF users aren't exclusively sailors.

Those are exceptions, though. Oden's a samurai from an isolated country that the World Government didn't want to enter, and the other''s in Skypea(somewhere the World Government doesn't go).

Post automatically merged: Feb 28, 2023

To be fair, Fuji and Greenbull can be from islands that are isolated like that, but either way, it's not like Oden or Enel were on that Admiral tier at the time.

 

[Mr. Tuna Sandwich]

Those are exceptions, though. Oden's a samurai from an isolated country that the World Government didn't want to enter, and the other''s in Skypea(somewhere the World Government doesn't go).

Ryokugyu and Fujitora are also exceptions.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

While true for real world, in OP you don't get top tiers who haven't gone through several fights.
Because haki blooms in intense battle, there is a limit to how much training can do for you. I would argue same sort of applies to DFs as well.

And I’m sure Aramaki and Issho have had their share of intense battles. The notion that the Marines would enlist Admirals who have no real combat record is lost on me lol. These two definitely have fought a lifetime’s worth of battles.

In regards to Haki blooming, I’m not sure. We know for example you can achieve a black blade purely by training (Mihawk’s exact words), I’m sure you can unlock any form of Haki via training. That’s neither here nor there because Issho and Aramaki definitely have combat records lol.

 

[Phantaminium4]

Ryokugyu and Fujitora are also exceptions.

The Land Of Wano still had some fighters, and was still primarily a warrior country(having many samurai), it's not like it's that surprising for Oden to be that strong, looking at his position. You have people like Ryuma as well, but the point is, Oden NEVER stepped foot outside of his country, and it was an isolated country. I can't even say he was a top tier then as well, he was strong, not a top tier. He only became a top tier afterwards.

To be an Admiral, one must be a top tier already. Fuji got sent straight to an Admiral, at least that's statement's imply.

Where's Fujitora from? An Isolated country? How did the World Government find out about Fujitora if he's in an isolated country? Because they definitely didn't know about Oden before he left Wano. Same thing for Greenbull.

Post automatically merged: Feb 28, 2023

 

[Mr. Tuna Sandwich]

The Land Of Wano still had some fighters, and was still primarily a warrior country(having many samurai), it's not like it's that surprising for Oden to be that strong, looking at his position. You have people like Ryuma as well, but the point is, Oden NEVER stepped foot outside of his country, and it was an isolated country. I can't even say he was a top tier then as well, he was strong, not a top tier. He only became a top tier afterwards.

To be an Admiral, one must be a top tier already. Fuji got sent straight to an Admiral, at least that's statement's imply.

Where's Fujitora from? An Isolated country? How did the World Government find out about Fujitora if he's in an isolated country? Because they definitely didn't know about Oden before he left Wano. Same thing for Greenbull.

Post automatically merged: Feb 28, 2023

Oden could've master Enma in his youth and dumbfounded prime Whitebeard when they met.

We don't know their backstories, ask Oda.

Idk why you complaining so much when there's a random island with wild animals that stronger than preskip Luffy.

 

[RedditorsAreBitchmade]

"im too dumb to consider the obvious fact that in a huge world like that not everyone has sided with the marines yet so I'll say its bad writting" youre embarassing yourself shithead

 

[Phantaminium4]

Oden could've master Enma in his youth and dumbfounded prime Whitebeard when they met.

Zoro could too, nothing crazy. It doesn't put him at the Admiral level yet, but is definitely out of the ordinary for someone who isn't known by other pirates or marines. Then again, Oden wasn't in some small fry country Wano was a well known country but was isolated from the rest of the world. It was known to have strong warriors, they were just unknown because anyone who tried to visit were immediately defeated. There haven't been much countries with the same level of hype for the average warrior other than like Elbaf which Fuji and Greenbull probably aren't from(given their physique).

For Oden to get that level, he had to step out, and get much stronger by traveling with people like WB.


Having animals or average inhabitants of an island being stronger than Pre-TS Luffy isn't that big of an issue. He wasn't even stronger than the average NW Pirate Captain. The Admirals are a different issue, they're among the strongest marines)surpassing even Old Garp) and being in the same league as some of the Yonko, finding TWO of these out of a military draft is lazy writing.


We knew about all the top tiers by the time of Marineford, Fuji and Greenbull weren't listed....

C'mon....

 

[L55]

they were not civilians. Just were in other branch of WG thus "World Military Draft".

@Phantaminium4

 

[Phantaminium4]

@Phantaminium4

The World Military Draft doesn't have to be another branch of the World Government. It can be like the average draft with newcomers who want to beocme Marines joining and receiving a rank.

Post automatically merged: Feb 28, 2023

They can be from any country, any place, and probably had no affliation with the World Government.

 

[grey matter]

And I’m sure Aramaki and Issho have had their share of intense battles. The notion that the Marines would enlist Admirals who have no real combat record is lost on me lol. These two definitely have fought a lifetime’s worth of battles.

In regards to Haki blooming, I’m not sure. We know for example you can achieve a black blade purely by training (Mihawk’s exact words), I’m sure you can unlock any form of Haki via training. That’s neither here nor there because Issho and Aramaki definitely have combat records lol.

My point isn't that they didn't fight.
Obviously they should've had several fights before they become so strong. That is the entire point.

My point simply is that once fights reach that level, they become legends, enough to be infamous worldwide. So it is impossible to become top tier without having world fame.

Yet we never heard of any of them before they joined as admirals.

Oda didn't execute this well

 

[DarkKingSlander]

This is a good topic. On one hand i agree with the people who say "its a big world so its logical that we have admiral level fighters scattered around who have no interest in pirates and marines", but on the other hand, oda has done nothing to show this.

One piece is an adventure manga where our protagonists travel every arc and go to new kingdom's and islands. Of all the people we've met, if you subtract pirates like yonko crews/warlords and government officials, nobody of any worth is left.

Who was admiral level on drum island? Alabasta? Dressrosa? Hell, fishman are naturally 10 times stronger than man, but that entire kingdom is filled with weaklings. I have no reason to believe jack and jinbe couldn't pull a madara/itachi level genocide on their own people low diff.

5 year old big mom smacked up an elder giant. The skypieans were terrorized by a single commanderish level enel, the two strongest minks couldn't beat jack after 3 days of tagging in one another every 12 hours. Oda has done terribly with every races depictions and every kingdoms combatants. Kyros was the best dressrosa had to offer. And pell was one of alabastas heavy hitters.

If there were admiral level fighters who are neither pirates or gov officials, oda has had 26 years to have the strawhats encounter them.

 

[grey matter]

This is a good topic. On one hand i agree with the people who say "its a big world so its logical that we have admiral level fighters scattered around who have no interest in pirates and marines", but on the other hand, oda has done nothing to show this.

One piece is an adventure manga where our protagonists travel every arc and go to new kingdom's and islands. Of all the people we've met, if you subtract pirates like yonko crews/warlords and government officials, nobody of any worth is left.

Who was admiral level on drum island? Alabasta? Dressrosa? Hell, fishman are naturally 10 times stronger than man, but that entire kingdom is filled with weaklings. I have no reason to believe jack and jinbe couldn't pull a madara/itachi level genocide on their own people low diff.

5 year old big mom smacked up an elder giant. The skypieans were terrorized by a single commanderish level enel, the two strongest minks couldn't beat jack after 3 days of tagging in one another every 12 hours. Oda has done terribly with every races depictions and every kingdoms combatants. Kyros was the best dressrosa had to offer. And pell was one of alabastas heavy hitters.

If there were admiral level fighters who are neither pirates or gov officials, oda has had 26 years to have the strawhats encounter them.

It also doesn't help that the only exception to this pattern of everyone unaffiliated being fodder so far, was high level fighters of Wano who are commander level.
And Wano is a country where news of NOTHING gets out, they are completely insulated to the rest of the world.

Another possible exception would be the giant kingdom of Elbaph, which we know should have many powerful fighters since BM said she could become PK if she got their alliance.
Again a country that is unaffiliated and usually insulated from the rest of the world, hence marines needing proxies such as mother caramel to go there.

If we rule out Wano and Elbaph, which are pretty much insulated from the rest of the world, there should be zero reason that even commander level fighters don't get some form of world fame. Let alone actual top tier fighters powerful enough to be admirals. Fujitora and Greenbull are certainly not from Wano or Elbaph for sure.

 

[Toryu]

This is a good topic. On one hand i agree with the people who say "its a big world so its logical that we have admiral level fighters scattered around who have no interest in pirates and marines", but on the other hand, oda has done nothing to show this.

One piece is an adventure manga where our protagonists travel every arc and go to new kingdom's and islands. Of all the people we've met, if you subtract pirates like yonko crews/warlords and government officials, nobody of any worth is left.

Who was admiral level on drum island? Alabasta? Dressrosa? Hell, fishman are naturally 10 times stronger than man, but that entire kingdom is filled with weaklings. I have no reason to believe jack and jinbe couldn't pull a madara/itachi level genocide on their own people low diff.

5 year old big mom smacked up an elder giant. The skypieans were terrorized by a single commanderish level enel, the two strongest minks couldn't beat jack after 3 days of tagging in one another every 12 hours. Oda has done terribly with every races depictions and every kingdoms combatants. Kyros was the best dressrosa had to offer. And pell was one of alabastas heavy hitters.

If there were admiral level fighters who are neither pirates or gov officials, oda has had 26 years to have the strawhats encounter them.

I feel like the closes thing to this is Mihawk, prior to his hunt on the Marines, I think we can assume that he was a powerful top tier without affiliation.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

yea and ultimately burying all other marines in the process...good job.

made everyone useless cause how you gon let 2 random people pass you up

Do you think the Marines have a magical button they can press that would turn low ranking soldiers into top Tiers?

Or just by giving someone the rank of Admiral, they automatically become top Tiers?

The Admirals are known as The World Governments strongest military might. The hell would they look like promoting a mid/high tier to the position that means being the strongest of the strong?

They did what they had to do to keep the integrity of the position intact.

And not for nothing, but if they promoted two people from within the Marines to the position, then it calls into question as to where the hell these two individuals have been hiding all along, why haven't we seen them before, and more importantly, where were they during Marineford, when the Marines made it mandatory that all capable fighters be present?

Drafting from outside solves something that would have been a massive plothole.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

My point simply is that once fights reach that level, they become legends, enough to be infamous worldwide. So it is impossible to become top tier without having world fame.

This is not true irl and I doubt it’s true in One Piece. Since OP is allegory for reality then this should not be true in series but that’s really all I can say here unfortunately. Lol

Look at Garp, no one had ever heard of him before the Rox incident but he was as strong as those guys were. Ryokugyu and Fujitora are similar, they were largely unknown prior to becoming Admirals but the whole OP world acknowledged them once they did.

 

[Apollo]

My interpretation of the military draft is the marines going across all countires affliated with it, searching for warriors to join the marines. Aramaki and Fuji were both fighter in some kingdom that joined the marines(which is the military force of the WG).

I do wish Oda expanded more on their backstories + giving some relevance to admiral candidates.

 

[NikaInParis]

It just tells you how the real meritocracy in the world is Marine HQ. You enroll a beast like Fujitora, he steamrolls through your tests or whichever way you meassure his qualities, and the only choice you have is to put him at Admiral position.

Now they got two new admirals, and two new admiral candidates (basically inbetweeners).

 

[grey matter]

This is not true irl and I doubt it’s true in One Piece. Since OP is allegory for reality then this should not be true in series but that’s really all I can say here unfortunately. Lol

Look at Garp, no one had ever heard of him before the Rox incident but he was as strong as those guys were. Ryokugyu and Fujitora are similar, they were largely unknown prior to becoming Admirals but the whole OP world acknowledged them once they did.

It works IRL, because someone can just be super powerful and not go for competitions. Fights or competition between two very powerful/skilled humans IRL can just be contained, they compete amongst themselves and nobody hears of them.
At best, they become popular in their village if they don't go for professional competition.

But in OP, once you reach a certain power level and fight, it turns into a huge deal and spills over to large areas.

Let's consider Shanks and Mihawk 12 years ago to be low top tiers.
Their duels were legendary and echoed through the grand line.

Look at commander level fight between Doflamingo and G4 Luffy, levelled an entire city.


As for Garp, who knows? Was it ever said that he was an unknown pre God Valley? Maybe he was well known top tier even before the God Valley incident. But he went from a regular accomplished and famed marines, to the greatest marine/marine hero post God Valley.