Powers & Abilities Could it be that Zoro actually did go all out in dressrosa? Zoro doesn't know how to use asura

#1
The more the series goes on, the more I think that Zoro actually might have gone all out in Dressrosa. Not that Asura magically doesn't exist post skip, but rather that Zoro asura is an unreliable power up.

In enies lobby, Oda introduced power ups for all of the m3. The gears for Luffy, diable jambe for sanji, and asura for zoro. However, out of these three power ups, it seems as if Asura is the only one that Oda is treating specially.

Asura seems like the most elusive power in the series. It was used only two times in the manga, and both of them happened pre-skip, effectively 10 years ago in real time.

In thriller bark, we see Luffy use the gears and sanji use diable jambe, but no asura from Zoro. Then post skip happens and we see Luffy with improved G2/G3 as well as G4, Sanji with improved diable jambe and hell memories, but we haven't even seen asura. It seems as if instead of mastering asura, Zoro instead focused on mastering his physical strength and haki, as his high end moves using black hardening can arguably rival G4 in terms of attack power.

So why no asura? According to Zoro fans, its because Zoro is simply too good to use asura. He is so all powerful, that he doesn't even need to use his full strength to defeat powerful enemies. While this argument might be fun to entertain, especially if you are a zoro fan, I feel as if it is a bit biased and lacking in insight. We are to believe that Oda would go 10 years without showing Zoro, one of the most popular characters, use his true strength?

I just don't see the logic in this. I don't get what's the point in making us wait so long. Doflamingo was hyped since pre-skip, there is no reason why Oda couldn't have made Zoro go all out in dressrosa. There is no reason for Oda to prolong this moment.

So here is my theory. To the dismay of Zoro fans, I think it is very likely that Zoro went all out in dressrosa. The reason for this is because I speculate that Zoro 1) doesn't have control over asura and 2) never did have control over asura.

from our observations, we can see that asura is used very infrequently. I mean it was never used in Thriller bark at all. This obviously wasn't because Zoro didn't go all out, as Oars was stronger than all of the straw harts combined, so was moria. Zoro was even temporarily knocked out one or two times. Oars was so strong that Luffy needed to use nightmare luffy to defeat him and then go G2+G3 to beat moria. So why didn't zoro just use asura? he had absolutely no reason not to, especially when kuma showed up.

And I think you can make a similar argument in dressrosa. If Oda was going to give Zoro the enma training as a power up in wano, why didn't he show zoro's full strength in dressrosa? Wouldn't it make sense to see Zoro use asura at least once in 10 years before having him surpass his limits with the enma training?

I think the answer is simple. Zoro doesn't know how to use asura. Even if he's pushed with his back against the wall, there's no guarantee he will be able to use asura. This is why Zoro's non asura atttacks are so powerful, why he created new moves like ISDS and rengoku oni giri, rather than mastering asura and learning how to use asura casually. Zoro simply wasn't able to control asura.

While many people might laugh or troll at the idea that Zoro went all out against pica. It isn't actually without precedent. There is very strong evidence that both Sanji and jinbe went all out against wadatsumi, who parallel's pica in that he is also extremely large. Sanji stated that he used his ultimate attack in fishman island and vagabond drill was the same attack jinbe used against big mom(where he had absolutely no reason to hold back).

I think it could be that rather than give Zoro, Sanji, and jinbe strong and serious opponents in the. new world, he instead had them go all out against goofy giants that are hard to take out.

And as for why Zoro cant use asura on command. I think it might be due to the sandai kitetsu. The sandai is the weakest kitetsu after all. If asura is from the kitetsu, maybe zoro needs a stronger kitetsu sword, like the nidai, before he can fully control asuraa.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#3
The more the series goes on, the more I think that Zoro actually might have gone all out in Dressrosa. Not that Asura magically doesn't exist post skip, but rather that Zoro asura is an unreliable power up.

In enies lobby, Oda introduced power ups for all of the m3. The gears for Luffy, diable jambe for sanji, and asura for zoro. However, out of these three power ups, it seems as if Asura is the only one that Oda is treating specially.

Asura seems like the most elusive power in the series. It was used only two times in the manga, and both of them happened pre-skip, effectively 10 years ago in real time.

In thriller bark, we see Luffy use the gears and sanji use diable jambe, but no asura from Zoro. Then post skip happens and we see Luffy with improved G2/G3 as well as G4, Sanji with improved diable jambe and hell memories, but we haven't even seen asura. It seems as if instead of mastering asura, Zoro instead focused on mastering his physical strength and haki, as his high end moves using black hardening can arguably rival G4 in terms of attack power.

So why no asura? According to Zoro fans, its because Zoro is simply too good to use asura. He is so all powerful, that he doesn't even need to use his full strength to defeat powerful enemies. While this argument might be fun to entertain, especially if you are a zoro fan, I feel as if it is a bit biased and lacking in insight. We are to believe that Oda would go 10 years without showing Zoro, one of the most popular characters, use his true strength?

I just don't see the logic in this. I don't get what's the point in making us wait so long. Doflamingo was hyped since pre-skip, there is no reason why Oda couldn't have made Zoro go all out in dressrosa. There is no reason for Oda to prolong this moment.

So here is my theory. To the dismay of Zoro fans, I think it is very likely that Zoro went all out in dressrosa. The reason for this is because I speculate that Zoro 1) doesn't have control over asura and 2) never did have control over asura.

from our observations, we can see that asura is used very infrequently. I mean it was never used in Thriller bark at all. This obviously wasn't because Zoro didn't go all out, as Oars was stronger than all of the straw harts combined, so was moria. Zoro was even temporarily knocked out one or two times. Oars was so strong that Luffy needed to use nightmare luffy to defeat him and then go G2+G3 to beat moria. So why didn't zoro just use asura? he had absolutely no reason not to, especially when kuma showed up.

And I think you can make a similar argument in dressrosa. If Oda was going to give Zoro the enma training as a power up in wano, why didn't he show zoro's full strength in dressrosa? Wouldn't it make sense to see Zoro use asura at least once in 10 years before having him surpass his limits with the enma training?

I think the answer is simple. Zoro doesn't know how to use asura. Even if he's pushed with his back against the wall, there's no guarantee he will be able to use asura. This is why Zoro's non asura atttacks are so powerful, why he created new moves like ISDS and rengoku oni giri, rather than mastering asura and learning how to use asura casually. Zoro simply wasn't able to control asura.

While many people might laugh or troll at the idea that Zoro went all out against pica. It isn't actually without precedent. There is very strong evidence that both Sanji and jinbe went all out against wadatsumi, who parallel's pica in that he is also extremely large. Sanji stated that he used his ultimate attack in fishman island and vagabond drill was the same attack jinbe used against big mom(where he had absolutely no reason to hold back).

I think it could be that rather than give Zoro, Sanji, and jinbe strong and serious opponents in the. new world, he instead had them go all out against goofy giants that are hard to take out.

And as for why Zoro cant use asura on command. I think it might be due to the sandai kitetsu. The sandai is the weakest kitetsu after all. If asura is from the kitetsu, maybe zoro needs a stronger kitetsu sword, like the nidai, before he can fully control asuraa.
Zoroa fight was never doffy
Oda put an admiral in the way
Weve had one mihawk flashback and it was the very begining of his training
He was trained for 2 years.
He used asura in sabaody by his own accord.
This whole thread goes out the window if he uses it again.
 
#5
Zoroa fight was never doffy
Oda put an admiral in the way
My point is that since doffy was so hyped, Oda could have given him a stronger subordinate if Pica really wasn't enough to make Zoreo go all out. I see no reason why Oda wouldn't let Zoro go all out in dressrosa, given that the next time Zoro even got a serious fight was killer and gyukimaru in the middle of act 2 wano.

Weve had one mihawk flashback and it was the very begining of his training
He was trained for 2 years.
He used asura in sabaody by his own accord.
This whole thread goes out the window if he uses it again.
Its not that he can't use it, but that he cannot use it at will. Zoro using asura is like pre-skip Luffy using CoC.

Overall, if Zoro has indeed mastered asura and can use it whenever he wants, then imo Oda mishandled Zoro post-skip. Like there's literally zero point in having him get a power up if we don't even know what his limit is. I don't understand why Oda would wait until one of the most important wars in the series to establish how strong Zoro was when he left mihawk.

At least with sanji, we saw him use his strongest attack and we've seen him get dominated in fights, so we know what his limits are.

When I take all of what I said above with the fact that Zoro didn't even use it in thriller bark, despite being heavily outclassed by Oars, Moria, and Kuma, I think he might actually just not know how to control it.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#8
My point is that since doffy was so hyped, Oda could have given him a stronger subordinate if Pica really wasn't enough to make Zoreo go all out. I see no reason why Oda wouldn't let Zoro go all out in dressrosa, given that the next time Zoro even got a serious fight was killer and gyukimaru in the middle of act 2 wano.



Its not that he can't use it, but that he cannot use it at will. Zoro using asura is like pre-skip Luffy using CoC.

Overall, if Zoro has indeed mastered asura and can use it whenever he wants, then imo Oda mishandled Zoro post-skip. Like there's literally zero point in having him get a power up if we don't even know what his limit is. I don't understand why Oda would wait until one of the most important wars in the series to establish how strong Zoro was when he left mihawk.

At least with sanji, we saw him use his strongest attack and we've seen him get dominated in fights, so we know what his limits are.

When I take all of what I said above with the fact that Zoro didn't even use it in thriller bark, despite being heavily outclassed by Oars, Moria, and Kuma, I think he might actually just not know how to control it.
Its convenience why he didnt use it thats all.
As weve learned since about what ryou is and what zoro did in alabasta being haki when he used shi son son skypia is conveniently the only arc he doesnt use that move from alabasta to thriller bark. The only arc he didnt use it was when he fought a logia
Again the only flashback weve had from zoro was right at the start of the timeskip. Do you think that mihawks only lesson in 2 YEARS ?
 
#10
Its convenience why he didnt use it thats all.
As weve learned since about what ryou is and what zoro did in alabasta being haki when he used shi son son skypia is conveniently the only arc he doesnt use that move from alabasta to thriller bark. The only arc he didnt use it was when he fought a logia
Again the only flashback weve had from zoro was right at the start of the timeskip. Do you think that mihawks only lesson in 2 YEARS ?
I think that was the most significant lesson.

Zoro's black blade hardening seems to be his equivalent to G4, given how much AP he has when he uses black blade hardening.
 
#11
Zoro didnt get sliced once, pica spent the whole fight running away, and zoro didn't use his strongest attack, he didnt go all out and it's not even a debate.

Oda has something in store for Zoro in Wano,

Also when Oda has someone go all out, they usually show a new move/ technique to show the protagonist surpassing his limits, there was nothing there that suggested that
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#12
I think that was the most significant lesson.

Zoro's black blade hardening seems to be his equivalent to G4, given how much AP he has when he uses black blade hardening.
Bro seriously think about what youre saying here just to make your point. Smh
In 2 years the only thing mihawk taught him was pre time skip right at the start. In 2 years.
Its more plausible zoro came back too strong to go all out and luffys had all the action come up than zoro one flashback being all he did for 2 years.
 
#13
It wasn’t on a whim check the manga he activate it by will didn’t happen out of nowhere ..
I don't know. If he uses it by will, then maybe asura isn't as strong as we think it is. Maybe sanzen sekai and asura are on the same level.

I just feel like if Oda actually was making zoro hold back his power in dressrosa, its kinda shit writing imo. You already had Zoro showing off his weaker abilities in fishman island and punk hazard. Dressrosa was the first major arc in the new world. Its the new world equivalent to alabasta. Why wouldnt Oda have Zoro go all out in that arc?
 
#14
The more the series goes on, the more I think that Zoro actually might have gone all out in Dressrosa. Not that Asura magically doesn't exist post skip, but rather that Zoro asura is an unreliable power up.

In enies lobby, Oda introduced power ups for all of the m3. The gears for Luffy, diable jambe for sanji, and asura for zoro. However, out of these three power ups, it seems as if Asura is the only one that Oda is treating specially.

Asura seems like the most elusive power in the series. It was used only two times in the manga, and both of them happened pre-skip, effectively 10 years ago in real time.

In thriller bark, we see Luffy use the gears and sanji use diable jambe, but no asura from Zoro. Then post skip happens and we see Luffy with improved G2/G3 as well as G4, Sanji with improved diable jambe and hell memories, but we haven't even seen asura. It seems as if instead of mastering asura, Zoro instead focused on mastering his physical strength and haki, as his high end moves using black hardening can arguably rival G4 in terms of attack power.

So why no asura? According to Zoro fans, its because Zoro is simply too good to use asura. He is so all powerful, that he doesn't even need to use his full strength to defeat powerful enemies. While this argument might be fun to entertain, especially if you are a zoro fan, I feel as if it is a bit biased and lacking in insight. We are to believe that Oda would go 10 years without showing Zoro, one of the most popular characters, use his true strength?

I just don't see the logic in this. I don't get what's the point in making us wait so long. Doflamingo was hyped since pre-skip, there is no reason why Oda couldn't have made Zoro go all out in dressrosa. There is no reason for Oda to prolong this moment.

So here is my theory. To the dismay of Zoro fans, I think it is very likely that Zoro went all out in dressrosa. The reason for this is because I speculate that Zoro 1) doesn't have control over asura and 2) never did have control over asura.

from our observations, we can see that asura is used very infrequently. I mean it was never used in Thriller bark at all. This obviously wasn't because Zoro didn't go all out, as Oars was stronger than all of the straw harts combined, so was moria. Zoro was even temporarily knocked out one or two times. Oars was so strong that Luffy needed to use nightmare luffy to defeat him and then go G2+G3 to beat moria. So why didn't zoro just use asura? he had absolutely no reason not to, especially when kuma showed up.

And I think you can make a similar argument in dressrosa. If Oda was going to give Zoro the enma training as a power up in wano, why didn't he show zoro's full strength in dressrosa? Wouldn't it make sense to see Zoro use asura at least once in 10 years before having him surpass his limits with the enma training?

I think the answer is simple. Zoro doesn't know how to use asura. Even if he's pushed with his back against the wall, there's no guarantee he will be able to use asura. This is why Zoro's non asura atttacks are so powerful, why he created new moves like ISDS and rengoku oni giri, rather than mastering asura and learning how to use asura casually. Zoro simply wasn't able to control asura.

While many people might laugh or troll at the idea that Zoro went all out against pica. It isn't actually without precedent. There is very strong evidence that both Sanji and jinbe went all out against wadatsumi, who parallel's pica in that he is also extremely large. Sanji stated that he used his ultimate attack in fishman island and vagabond drill was the same attack jinbe used against big mom(where he had absolutely no reason to hold back).

I think it could be that rather than give Zoro, Sanji, and jinbe strong and serious opponents in the. new world, he instead had them go all out against goofy giants that are hard to take out.

And as for why Zoro cant use asura on command. I think it might be due to the sandai kitetsu. The sandai is the weakest kitetsu after all. If asura is from the kitetsu, maybe zoro needs a stronger kitetsu sword, like the nidai, before he can fully control asuraa.
So you think zoro only learned haki from mihawk and couldn't master asura when luffy and sanji completely mastered g2/g3 and dj? It not hard to believe zoro hasn't went all out cuz its just common sense. This is unless you think zoro barely learned anything from mihawk and was so far behind sanji and luffy pre time skip that he couldn't master his pu while they did even tho they had to do more than him. I mean sanji had to learn to cook and get recipes while luffy had to learn 1 more type of haki and had to train out of draw backs his pu's had that asura didn't.

As for it not making sense as to why it takes so long to show him going all out it's because there is more than just zoro. Its no secret post time skip all the sh's bar luffy have taken a step back in terms of fights. Sanji still till this day hasn't shown hardening unless you use a ultra microscope and argue if he did or didn't. So why does oda wait so long for sanji to do this? Same with his double dj he used vs mingo. That literally makes his dj twice as good yet sanji still doesn't spam it but just uses dj on 1 leg. This can go for pretty much every sh cuz not just zoro or sanji but no sh bar luffy went all out. Example despite chopper showing right out of the time skip he mastered monster point to some extent he rarely uses it to help the crew and /or gain better control over it. When robin doesn't spam her giant abilities nor her clone abilities despite it looking casual for her to use. You can do this with every sh if you wanted.
 
#15
Bro seriously think about what youre saying here just to make your point. Smh
In 2 years the only thing mihawk taught him was pre time skip right at the start. In 2 years.
Its more plausible zoro came back too strong to go all out and luffys had all the action come up than zoro one flashback being all he did for 2 years.
I think there might be more mihawk flashbacks to come, but it'll be about stuff zoro knows about but hasn't mastered. Similar to the WCI rayleigh flashbacks.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#16
I don't know. If he uses it by will, then maybe asura isn't as strong as we think it is. Maybe sanzen sekai and asura are on the same level.

I just feel like if Oda actually was making zoro hold back his power in dressrosa, its kinda shit writing imo. You already had Zoro showing off his weaker abilities in fishman island and punk hazard. Dressrosa was the first major arc in the new world. Its the new world equivalent to alabasta. Why wouldnt Oda have Zoro go all out in that arc?
Because doffy in the grand scheme of things in terms of strength is ok nothing more. Look at how he had to make pica a moving mountain to give zoro something to do heck look at kinemons reaction to zoro cutting the golem and this is someone whos seen oden all his life fought kaido etc.
 
#17
I don't know. If he uses it by will, then maybe asura isn't as strong as we think it is. Maybe sanzen sekai and asura are on the same level.

I just feel like if Oda actually was making zoro hold back his power in dressrosa, its kinda shit writing imo. You already had Zoro showing off his weaker abilities in fishman island and punk hazard. Dressrosa was the first major arc in the new world. Its the new world equivalent to alabasta. Why wouldnt Oda have Zoro go all out in that arc?
Zoro if he is not near dead then is not all out that’s how always is

now to your question why he didn’t go all out well they are many reasons but the one I think is more possible is that oda want to showcase coo and COa through Luffy That’s why neither Sanji or zoro got all out cuz I believe zoro had already adv coa and Sanji coo respectively And that’s why we conclude in want everyone finally is together and everyone gonna go all out so taht could be one of the reason but we will see
 
#20
First, Zoro did use asura against the pacifista pre time skip so he can use that power on command.

When he attacked Pica he wanted to make sure he had an attack that was powerful enough to defeat Pica in his strongest and largest golem. It turns out that power was actually too much. How do I come to that conclusion? Simple, his first attack was the only time he used the name attack. The rest of the time he cut the golem with non-named range haki attacks. And of course he did use another name attack when he fought Pica's body directly but Pica stated he was invincible with his full body haki.

Why haven't we seen Zoro use it post time skip? It's because there hasn't been enough strong opponents around two push Zoro to that level. Dressrosa was the first time there was more than one opponent that was at or above commander level. Unfortunately, the other opponent was an admiral. It's too soon for any admiral to be defeated. No, I'm not saying that Zoro or any straw hat could have defeated an admiral at that time.

He didn't go to WCI which sucks because I would have loved to have seen Zoro vs Cracker. Wano is really the first time Zoro has an opportunity to fight an opponent at Commander level or above in a full-length battle.

We also must remember that he has only used haki twice seriously in battle. Against Pica and Killer and both times he used it he completely destroyed his opponent. He didn't use it when he bested Hawkins, who was using a good card to go beyond his power.
 
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