Powers & Abilities Misunderstanding of CoC

#1
I think some people fundamentally misunderstand what CoC is and does. Here are some in-canon explanations

(1) You cannot "train" your CoC to be stronger. You can train to manipulate it. That's it. CoC is a reflection of your base strength. So this idea that Shanks has stronger CoC but he is weaker than other characters like Kaido or Mihawk, is nonsense. Shanks can learn to manipulate it better, but the strength of your CoC is fixed.



(2) ACoC is a not magic pill that automatically makes you Admiral/Yonko level. You can still be close to High Tier with ACoC (Zoro/Yamato).

This comes from VIZ exaggerating their translations. (They did the same for Future Sight)



The actual Japanese does not use the superlative "strongest". It simply says "some strong people" can use. Rayleigh said the same about Future Sight, and VIZ again translated it as "strongest".

The reason Luffy became so powerful with ACoC is because Luffy's base was already Top Tier. Just because awakening made Luffy Kaido's equal, it doesn't mean awakening will make Kaku Kaido's equal. It's all about your base.

------

My main point here is, CoC or ACoC is not some magic bullet in and of itself. It's a reflection of your base strength. Having CoC or ACoC in and of itself is not going to make you Admiral or Yonko level.
 
#6
"Coc can't get stronger or train to get stronger"
Kaidou the King of Wisdom with a bottle of vodka on his least intelligent day: Shuron Hakke.

Kaido is making himself stronger, so his CoC automatically grows stronger as well.

That's why Luffy's first training had nothing to do with Haki in Udon prison. It was pure physical training caused by seacuffs. Luffy used the seacuffs to become physically far stronger than before. That's how Luffy was partially dodging Kaido's Thunder Bagua in base even if he saw it in the future. Kuri Luffy defininitely wouldn't be able to. He was simply too weak.

So it makes sense why Luffy began with physical training at first - it was due to CoC.

Kuzan's ship punching training was for a similar purpose. A physical training is the best way to train your CoC. If you are physically strong, your CoA will also be on a better level but unlike CoC, there's effective training for CoA.
 
#8



The same way everyone’s conquerors haki in general isn’t the same that also applies when using it to coat your attacks

Just like how Yamato knowing it doesn’t mean their conquerors haki is comparable to kaido’s. It also doesn’t mean they have better conquerors than anyone without coating. At the end of the day all it is anyway is a way to enhance your armament and attacks at this point


Like Rayleigh said conquerors isn’t something you can train to get stronger directly but it’s something that reflects the user’s general strength

Like if both Doflamingo and katakuri learned coating katakuri’s coated attacks would definitely be boosted more due to him having stronger conquerors
Or like if Marco and jozu somehow both had it Marco’s would be stronger
The pictures are broken now but been saying the same

  1. Someone with basic conquers can have conquers just as strong as those capable of infusing it into their attacks
  2. Conquerors just represents overall strength
  3. Someone without conquerors can be just as strong if not stronger than someone with it
  4. All infusion is is an amplifier


Not focusing on learning advanced forms of haki doesn't automatically mean weak haki or that your haki cant compete with those that do.
Doesn't change the fact that yes advancing in haki makes the individual stronger but again doesn't necessarily mean their base level haki strength is superior



Armament haki-
Not having armament barrier or penetration doesn't mean your armament haki is weaker than those who do
Don't think anyone believes this but
  1. Marigold having barrier armament doesn't mean her armament is stronger than sanji's
  2. Pica having full body armament doesn't mean he has better armament than killer
  3. Raisin coating his blade in hardening doesn't mean he has stronger armament than law
  4. Having a black blade doesn't mean you have better armament than garp
  5. The scabbards having whatever haki they got doesn't mean their haki is better than blackbeard's


Observation haki-
In the case of observation haki it is slightly different. Main reason being is yes you can just have better observation haki than someone else. This being because observation and armament working differently

With armament there's a clear step by step progress
Basic armament-> barrier armament-> penetration armament

With observation it's more like a tree with different branches. The different abilities being
  1. Presence sensing
  2. Emotion sensing
  3. Intent sensing
  4. Strength sensing

Like yes having future sight clearly mean you have better intent sensing than those without at the very least. At the same time due to their being different branches of observation doesn't mean you have overall better observations technically


Having future sight doesn't necessarily mean you'll automatically have the ability to sense a whole like fujitora, rayleigh, and enel have shown
Tho enel technically used his fruit to help if i remember correctly



Conquerors haki-
Like rayleigh explained to luffy when he first showed it off you can't train to strengthen it directly
The strength of your conquerors just depends on your overall strength


As for coating
When it comes to coating attacks it's most likely them appying the same rules as armament and its advanced stages. Infusing your armament and conquerors together makes it stronger
Yamato not being as skilled as luffy and kaido in armament is likley the reason why her and kaido's attacks made direct impact but not theirs


As for why or how sky splitting happens its likely just due to the raw pressure/strength of 2 extremely strong conquerors blast clashing
Also in general more advanced haki doesn’t mean you have stronger than someone without haki or even mean you have stronger haki than them

  1. Characters without haki can beat characters with haki
  2. Luffy not having external (barrier) haki till wano doesn’t mean marigold or raisin had stronger haki than him just more advanced
    • Same applies to conquerors
 
#11
Kaido is making himself stronger, so his CoC automatically grows stronger as well.

That's why Luffy's first training had nothing to do with Haki in Udon prison. It was pure physical training caused by seacuffs. Luffy used the seacuffs to become physically far stronger than before. That's how Luffy was partially dodging Kaido's Thunder Bagua in base even if he saw it in the future. Kuri Luffy defininitely wouldn't be able to. He was simply too weak.

So it makes sense why Luffy began with physical training at first - it was due to CoC.

Kuzan's ship punching training was for a similar purpose. A physical training is the best way to train your CoC. If you are physically strong, your CoA will also be on a better level but unlike CoC, there's effective training for CoA.
Alcohol didn't make Kaidou physically stronger, so none of what you said holds up.
 
#14
"but he is weaker than other characters like Kaido or Mihawk, is nonsense"

If your swordsmanship uses Conquerors haki (since kamusari is stated to be a sword technique that uses conquerors haki) and you're directly stated to have weaker swordsmanship (and therefore sword techniques) than someone

That means even with your conquerors haki, your sword techniques are inferior to whatever they can do.

So even with Shanks near joyboy level coc, his sword techniques like his kamusari is still weaker than whatever Mihawk is capable of doing.

So why are Mihawks sword techniques greater?, is it because he utilises haki better than shanks (with ryuou), is it because his haki is stronger than shanks, or is it merely because he can adjust his blade 0.00000001 inches in any direction necessary at a moments notice to achieve the greatest affect with a cut.

you tell me
 
#15
This comes from VIZ exaggerating their translations. (They did the same for Future Sight)


The actual Japanese does not use the superlative "strongest". It simply says "some strong people" can use. Rayleigh said the same about Future Sight, and VIZ again translated it as "strongest".
This is completely wrong, Viz's translation is more accurate and you should stop pretending to know more than literal experts who's entire careers are built on translating accurately for decades.
 
#18
This is completely wrong, Viz's translation is more accurate and you should stop pretending to know more than literal experts who's entire careers are built on translating accurately for decades.
Here is the Japanese: ひと握りの強者だけな!



Nowhere here does it "the very strongest". "Tsuwamono" literally means "strong people".

Here is ChatGPT explanation



Here is Google Translate



It's not about who is the "expert" in Japanese, but you can't seem to grasp that translators take liberty with translation to make things more dramatic. Not every translation is 100% literal. VIZ doesn't care about powerscaling agendas. They want to make a more readable manga.

I'm simply giving you the 100% literal translation, with no dramatic effect.
 
Top