Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love
- Thread starter RayanOO
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- Tags add rayan to the poll keep reloaded out reloaded is innocent sanji bodies goofy cry about it wanji szn who let reloaded in???
M
You have a very strange definition of "introduction" that you use and modify all the time so it can fit your pattern...
Jabra didn't appear to be a trickster when he got introduced, we saw him fight with Lucci and Kaku, act goofy, then he chased Usopp and Zoro with Kaku for God knows how many chapters. He started lying literally in the chapter preceding his loss at the hands (or more like at the feet) of Sanji.
I understand your reasons about Lafitte, but your extreme rationalization to force the idea that there's no way Pizarro can be deceptive makes no sense to me. We just don't know, but you want to believe he can't be deceptive. You're also ignoring Wadatsumi's example repeatedly because it doesn't suit your narrative.
I don't really care whether Sanji fights Pizarro, Burgess or Lafitte and I guess that's why we have a very different perspective.
Jabra didn't appear to be a trickster when he got introduced, we saw him fight with Lucci and Kaku, act goofy, then he chased Usopp and Zoro with Kaku for God knows how many chapters. He started lying literally in the chapter preceding his loss at the hands (or more like at the feet) of Sanji.
I understand your reasons about Lafitte, but your extreme rationalization to force the idea that there's no way Pizarro can be deceptive makes no sense to me. We just don't know, but you want to believe he can't be deceptive. You're also ignoring Wadatsumi's example repeatedly because it doesn't suit your narrative.
I don't really care whether Sanji fights Pizarro, Burgess or Lafitte and I guess that's why we have a very different perspective.
It's crazy how much some people turn their brains off when the matter is Sanji
Almost 3 decades later bluds are still using that panel of Sanji telling Zoro to give up on his dream to say he doesn't deserve CoC, i didnt expect that from Lorj at all. It's like this is all bluds read about Sanji during the whole Baratie arc
Almost 3 decades later bluds are still using that panel of Sanji telling Zoro to give up on his dream to say he doesn't deserve CoC, i didnt expect that from Lorj at all. It's like this is all bluds read about Sanji during the whole Baratie arc
Emotional...
Anyways on the rank issue. Ranks ultimately determine the SHs matchups with Zoro and Sanji usually fighting the upper ranked characters in the antagonist group. If there is a character with a "Vice Captain" rank in the crew, best believe that Zoro fights him. Same will apply to Sanji when all things are equal. You say I'm disingenuous but then you bring up Trebol 💀. Chief of Staff might not necessarily be 100% indication of strength hierarchy but it certainly is an indication of hierarchy which comes back to my rank argument. Moroever, Trebol aside, we have enough examples of Chief of Staff in the series to know that they are usually very strong relative to the group they are in e.g. Sabo, Tsuru etc and even in Trebol's case, he might be the weakest of the seats but he's certainly stronger than everyone else outside them. Regardless in addition to Lafitte's rank I have already given you multiple examples which indicate that he's most likely very strong, be it telling off a level 6 impel down prisoner in Pizarro, his performance against Ace or even the fact that Oda gave him a firggin flight zoan but anyways I digress. Also you think a character that has been tasked time and time again with the kind of missions Lafitte has been tasked with doesn't necessarily mean he's one of BB wings or at the very least taking up a similar type of role narratively?
Also on Jyabura...
A few questions, who's goofier Jyabura or Kaku?
Does Jyabura have a goofy design? When you say Jyabura is goofy are you referring to his lying trait which I don't might have to do with the fact that he was a wolf zoan?
Anyways on the rank issue. Ranks ultimately determine the SHs matchups with Zoro and Sanji usually fighting the upper ranked characters in the antagonist group. If there is a character with a "Vice Captain" rank in the crew, best believe that Zoro fights him. Same will apply to Sanji when all things are equal. You say I'm disingenuous but then you bring up Trebol 💀. Chief of Staff might not necessarily be 100% indication of strength hierarchy but it certainly is an indication of hierarchy which comes back to my rank argument. Moroever, Trebol aside, we have enough examples of Chief of Staff in the series to know that they are usually very strong relative to the group they are in e.g. Sabo, Tsuru etc and even in Trebol's case, he might be the weakest of the seats but he's certainly stronger than everyone else outside them. Regardless in addition to Lafitte's rank I have already given you multiple examples which indicate that he's most likely very strong, be it telling off a level 6 impel down prisoner in Pizarro, his performance against Ace or even the fact that Oda gave him a firggin flight zoan but anyways I digress. Also you think a character that has been tasked time and time again with the kind of missions Lafitte has been tasked with doesn't necessarily mean he's one of BB wings or at the very least taking up a similar type of role narratively?
Also on Jyabura...
A few questions, who's goofier Jyabura or Kaku?
Does Jyabura have a goofy design? When you say Jyabura is goofy are you referring to his lying trait which I don't might have to do with the fact that he was a wolf zoan?
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M
Yes, imo you kinda seem a bit emotional about this, at least that's how I feel when I see you throw terms like "bordering on laughable" just because I don't share your opinion. I didn't mean to offend you or anything, but you appear irritated. And your apparent exasperation after I called you emotional, reinforces that impression. Can't we just have a different point of view without someone appearing easily annoyed? It's not like I'm trolling, hating on a character or anything like that.
How is Trebol a disingenuous example, exactly? It shows that "Chief of Staff" isn't always meaningful. I could easily talk about Burgess being the 1st Division Commander because Luffy and WB's 2 strongest Commanders have the same position, but I didn't because I don't want to pretend it's meaningful when we don't know what BB's hierarchy is based on. I'm very much aware that him being the second strongest is far from guaranteed.
No, I don't think Lafitte being tasked with important missions necessarily means he's one of BB's "wings". It could easily be because his ability makes him a good fit for those missions.
Not sure how Kaku has anything to do with this. Kaku is goofy in terms of design, Jabra is goofy in terms of personality. Not just him lying, but also being loud, howling like a wolf, sleeping while waiting for his opponent, falling in love with an ugly woman who rejected him and being made fun of for this, or being gullible enough to buy a ridiculous explanation about the DF curse, etc. He wasn't the only goofy one, but my point was never that Sanji always fights the one goofy antagonist of the group, there can be more than one goofy guy. My point is only that his opponent is always goofy, which Lafitte isn't.
When I see you call Pizarro "Pissarro", claim that he's a bum, or talk about he and Burgess getting scolded, I can't help but think you're heavily influenced by how you feel about them. It feels to me like you want Sanji's opponent to remain "untouched" in terms of aura, which I feel is a point that's way more heart-driven than brain-driven. That's why I said I feel like a lot of the reasons you mentioned can be summed up to "he's cool", as those reasons don't particularly justify the idea of him fighting Sanji rather than another SH. You just feel like those things make him so cool that it can only be Sanji's opponent.
I don't think Oda really cares about those things. Shiryu was also frozen by Aokiji and got his ass handed to him by Garp, but he's still Zoro's opponent.
How is Trebol a disingenuous example, exactly? It shows that "Chief of Staff" isn't always meaningful. I could easily talk about Burgess being the 1st Division Commander because Luffy and WB's 2 strongest Commanders have the same position, but I didn't because I don't want to pretend it's meaningful when we don't know what BB's hierarchy is based on. I'm very much aware that him being the second strongest is far from guaranteed.
No, I don't think Lafitte being tasked with important missions necessarily means he's one of BB's "wings". It could easily be because his ability makes him a good fit for those missions.
Not sure how Kaku has anything to do with this. Kaku is goofy in terms of design, Jabra is goofy in terms of personality. Not just him lying, but also being loud, howling like a wolf, sleeping while waiting for his opponent, falling in love with an ugly woman who rejected him and being made fun of for this, or being gullible enough to buy a ridiculous explanation about the DF curse, etc. He wasn't the only goofy one, but my point was never that Sanji always fights the one goofy antagonist of the group, there can be more than one goofy guy. My point is only that his opponent is always goofy, which Lafitte isn't.
When I see you call Pizarro "Pissarro", claim that he's a bum, or talk about he and Burgess getting scolded, I can't help but think you're heavily influenced by how you feel about them. It feels to me like you want Sanji's opponent to remain "untouched" in terms of aura, which I feel is a point that's way more heart-driven than brain-driven. That's why I said I feel like a lot of the reasons you mentioned can be summed up to "he's cool", as those reasons don't particularly justify the idea of him fighting Sanji rather than another SH. You just feel like those things make him so cool that it can only be Sanji's opponent.
I don't think Oda really cares about those things. Shiryu was also frozen by Aokiji and got his ass handed to him by Garp, but he's still Zoro's opponent.
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M
People saying Jabra was the "goofy" one when Kaku was a squared nose Usopp with a GIRAFFE fruit that everyone laughed at, might be one of the biggest revisionisms in OP's history.
That and Rayleigh's completely inflated contribution in Sabaody.
That and Rayleigh's completely inflated contribution in Sabaody.
Denying Jabra is goofy after everything I've just listed about him, is what I call actual revisionism.
@Sir Yasheen @PuckTheGreat If you guys are so confident about your take, let's just bet.
M
Squared Usopp.
A person shaped like a ball and a zipper mouth
Some kabuki living hair dude with funny speech.
And the "goofy" one is Jabra because he got salty when he heard Kaku surpassed him on doukiri.
A person shaped like a ball and a zipper mouth
Some kabuki living hair dude with funny speech.
And the "goofy" one is Jabra because he got salty when he heard Kaku surpassed him on doukiri.
The only non-goofy ones are Lucci, Blueno and Kalifa, which is probably one of the reasons they were chosen for an infiltration mission (Kaku has the goofy design, but not the goofy personality, hence he was picked as well).
I'm very confident but it's not that deep tbh.
I'm not really a fan of bets to take something from someone else.
We all view the story from different perspectives and can have disagreements on this ^^
Sorry if I came across as a bit to aggressive on the Lafitte ting
From my perspective it's a "why can't you see it, it's bloody obvious" type of ting even more so if the person I'm debating is a fellow Sanji fan like myself but well again nothing is set in stone till it's set in stone lol
Just on the topic of Sanji's BB matchup, trickiness aside what makes you think Pizarro is going to be Sanji's opponent?
I'd be honest, I extremely dislike the character lol so I wouldn't really call myself neutral but even if I try to take of my rose tinted glasses I can't really see it tbh
For example in Rayan's case, he thinks it's gonna be Vasco simply coz he really likes the character which is fine but deep down I'm sure he knows it's cope lol
I'm not really a fan of bets to take something from someone else.
We all view the story from different perspectives and can have disagreements on this ^^
Sorry if I came across as a bit to aggressive on the Lafitte ting
From my perspective it's a "why can't you see it, it's bloody obvious" type of ting even more so if the person I'm debating is a fellow Sanji fan like myself but well again nothing is set in stone till it's set in stone lol
Just on the topic of Sanji's BB matchup, trickiness aside what makes you think Pizarro is going to be Sanji's opponent?
I'd be honest, I extremely dislike the character lol so I wouldn't really call myself neutral but even if I try to take of my rose tinted glasses I can't really see it tbh
For example in Rayan's case, he thinks it's gonna be Vasco simply coz he really likes the character which is fine but deep down I'm sure he knows it's cope lol
Goofy is such a simplistic term do describe Sanji's opponents. He typically fights eccentric characters, they don't literally have to be wearing a clown nose and get humiliated, that's not even an accurate representation of who he fights. Queen, Jabra and Bon were brutal, cunning, unconventional, theatrical, flamboyant and challenged Sanji on a moral/ideological level. Laffitte checks all of those boxes and Oda can easily add a quirk or two for some comedy. We haven't even been properly introduced to him as a character to explore his idiosyncrasies.
Folks always use Sanji putting Zeff before his dream as an argument to say he isn't conqueror material which just shows a lack of understanding of Sanji's character even 1000 chapters into the story but did Zoro-boy not get on his hands and knees to tell his rival and goal to teach him in order to get strong enough to support Luffy? So shouldn't that very act disqualify Zoro from being a conqueror? I mean "a refusal to back down even if it's irrational because that level of will simply doesn't break" right? 
This is no slight on Zoro btw, I personally thought what he did was very noble. It's just funny how folks pick and choose arguments that are convenient for their point of view.
There is no bloody criteria for CoC btw, friggin Yamato is a bloody conqueror lol
Hell even momo will probably end up being a conqueror at some point.
This is no slight on Zoro btw, I personally thought what he did was very noble. It's just funny how folks pick and choose arguments that are convenient for their point of view.There is no bloody criteria for CoC btw, friggin Yamato is a bloody conqueror lol
Hell even momo will probably end up being a conqueror at some point.
Kalifa had the "everything is sexual harassment" jokes.
Blueno had hair shaped a bull horns. How's that not goofy?
The character doesn't have to act like a "clown" in order to be goofy. They can have design cues, or other gags.
Also, Sanji doesn't have a "type" of enemy.
Gin, Kuroobi, Mr2, Satori (very weird to count, because it was a team fight), Jabra, Absalom, Wadatsumi (also not a 1v1), Queen.
You can't simply pick and choose some of them and condense them into one trait that YOU think fits "a typical sanji opponent".
You are not the first to do something like that, m8. I've been discussing these false "sanji matchup" theories for more than a decade.
Wanna know what Sanji fights have in common? They are almost impossible to pinpoint UNTIL the moment they happen or Oda shoves in our face the 3rd strongest thing, or we go for a process of elimination by first removing Zoro's opponent from the poll.
But these are just "trends". They aren't hard irrefutable science.
Jabra and Queen are the most blatantly obvious "3rd" strongest tropes because of Doukiri and the card game ranks from Kaido's crew.
People on this fandom speculate on many different matchups for Sanji from BBP.
Lafitte just happens to be the most popular (honestly, idk. before garp and coby shitting on Pizarro, Pizarro might've actually been even more popular than Lafitte).
We have people cheering for Vasco, Burgess, some even go on a wild curve and push sanji vs aokiji.
It all happens because Sanji's matchups are historically hard to lock on.
Conveniently these people forget that Zoro put his dream second for Luffy.
Which is basically why Mihawk accepts him.
LMAO.
Blueno had hair shaped a bull horns. How's that not goofy?
The character doesn't have to act like a "clown" in order to be goofy. They can have design cues, or other gags.
Also, Sanji doesn't have a "type" of enemy.
Gin, Kuroobi, Mr2, Satori (very weird to count, because it was a team fight), Jabra, Absalom, Wadatsumi (also not a 1v1), Queen.
You can't simply pick and choose some of them and condense them into one trait that YOU think fits "a typical sanji opponent".
You are not the first to do something like that, m8. I've been discussing these false "sanji matchup" theories for more than a decade.
Wanna know what Sanji fights have in common? They are almost impossible to pinpoint UNTIL the moment they happen or Oda shoves in our face the 3rd strongest thing, or we go for a process of elimination by first removing Zoro's opponent from the poll.
But these are just "trends". They aren't hard irrefutable science.
Jabra and Queen are the most blatantly obvious "3rd" strongest tropes because of Doukiri and the card game ranks from Kaido's crew.
People on this fandom speculate on many different matchups for Sanji from BBP.
Lafitte just happens to be the most popular (honestly, idk. before garp and coby shitting on Pizarro, Pizarro might've actually been even more popular than Lafitte).
We have people cheering for Vasco, Burgess, some even go on a wild curve and push sanji vs aokiji.
It all happens because Sanji's matchups are historically hard to lock on.
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Conveniently these people forget that Zoro put his dream second for Luffy.
Which is basically why Mihawk accepts him.
LMAO.
Folks always use Sanji putting Zeff before his dream as an argument to say he isn't conqueror material which just shows a lack of understanding of Sanji's character even 1000 chapters into the story but did Zoro-boy not get on his hands and knees to tell his rival and goal to teach him in order to get strong enough to support Luffy? So shouldn't that very act disqualify Zoro from being a conqueror? I mean "a refusal to back down even if it's irrational because that level of will simply doesn't break" right? This is no slight on Zoro btw, I personally thought what he did was very noble. It's just funny how folks pick and choose arguments that are convenient for their point of view.
There is no bloody criteria for CoC btw, friggin Yamato is a bloody conqueror lol
Hell even momo will probably end up being a conqueror at some point.
This is no slight on Zoro btw, I personally thought what he did was very noble. It's just funny how folks pick and choose arguments that are convenient for their point of view.There is no bloody criteria for CoC btw, friggin Yamato is a bloody conqueror lol
Hell even momo will probably end up being a conqueror at some point.
@PuckTheGreat pardon my ignorance, but I have the impression that, usually, eastern folklore is very keen on "destiny" and "birthright" hooks. Like in the sense that, for instance, someone's personality is directly affected by their birth parents, no matter how much influence they actually have on the character's upbringing. Like "blood" dictates "soul".
Not saying this is restricted to eastern storytelling, but I've always had this impression.
The biggest trope is usually how, for instance, Luffy's will is "justified" by being the son of Dragon, or grandson to Garp.
Which might be why we have this tendency of thinking CoC is "inherited" through genetics.
Any thoughts on this matter?
Not saying this is restricted to eastern storytelling, but I've always had this impression.
The biggest trope is usually how, for instance, Luffy's will is "justified" by being the son of Dragon, or grandson to Garp.
Which might be why we have this tendency of thinking CoC is "inherited" through genetics.
Any thoughts on this matter?