Powers & Abilities How Shanks Beat Loki
- Thread starter CoC: Color of Clowns
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Loki still had to get to the point where he could use the fruit's hax to remove the curse, then, and that's the thing.
If he weren't strong enough he'd have died the moment Harald attacked him after getting the fruit. Instead he managed to overwhelm Harald in combat, transform, then subdue him in his Zoan form.
If he weren't strong enough he'd have died the moment Harald attacked him after getting the fruit. Instead he managed to overwhelm Harald in combat, transform, then subdue him in his Zoan form.
Both Kizaru and Gaban calls Luffy the man defeated Kaido yet many in this fandom would argue Luffy is still weaker than him or that it wasn't a 1 vs 1 because Kaido went through a gauntlet and Luffy got to restore his stamina by eating food mid battle.
Mind you neither Gaban or Jarul explictly stated Shanks defeated Loki, but that he captured him (which can mean it happened after a defeat in a duel but not only)
Mind you neither Gaban or Jarul explictly stated Shanks defeated Loki, but that he captured him (which can mean it happened after a defeat in a duel but not only)
? Is someone arguing that Loki should've been destroyed by Harald? What is the point of mentioning that?
Shanks, Gaban, and Loki all overwhelmed Harald at first. All 3 were seen bleeding and gassed out after some time passed because of Harald's COC and regen.
Loki succeeded not because he was that strong, but because Harald came back to senses and let himself be killed. If that was because of Loki's DF, then it isnt a testament for Loki being that powerful, but him having the right ability for the right situation.
Everything says Loki is a top tier that Luffy can take down.
Shanks, Gaban, and Loki all overwhelmed Harald at first. All 3 were seen bleeding and gassed out after some time passed because of Harald's COC and regen.
Loki succeeded not because he was that strong, but because Harald came back to senses and let himself be killed. If that was because of Loki's DF, then it isnt a testament for Loki being that powerful, but him having the right ability for the right situation.
Everything says Loki is a top tier that Luffy can take down.
Shanks and Gaban never overwhelmed an on-guard Harald. They only caught him once when he wasn’t paying attention. Later on, Gaban outright implies that they can’t stop Harald once he starts using his own aCoC.
Loki, on the other hand, completely dominated an on-guard Harald in a straight 1v1. The fruit gives Loki overwhelming power (world-destroying reputation), and that was necessary to overpower an amped Harald. That was the entire narrative Oda kept hammering home. It doesn’t have some secret mechanic that bypasses Imu’s regeneration. We already know the answer to that is potent aCoC. The difference is simply that Gaban, Shanks, and the guards combined couldn’t overpower or stop Harald the way Loki could.
Loki, on the other hand, completely dominated an on-guard Harald in a straight 1v1. The fruit gives Loki overwhelming power (world-destroying reputation), and that was necessary to overpower an amped Harald. That was the entire narrative Oda kept hammering home. It doesn’t have some secret mechanic that bypasses Imu’s regeneration. We already know the answer to that is potent aCoC. The difference is simply that Gaban, Shanks, and the guards combined couldn’t overpower or stop Harald the way Loki could.
How does any of this mean that Luffy doesn't have the strength to stop Loki or that Shanks must have used tricks or help? That has always been my point and the reason for the whole convo. Being stronger than Gaban and that version of Shanks ≠ being stronger than or unable to be beaten by Luffy or that Shanks guaranteed used foul play.
Gaban and Shanks easily dodged Harald, and yes Gaban and Shanks complained about Harald having COC and the fight not ending. Their attacks wasn't doing the job and Harald eventually got them because of the regen. It was the same for Loki who at first was knocking Harald around but was later huffing and bleeding. Harald was getting him too, and Loki won because Harald came back to his senses.
So Gaban and Shanks simply lacked the ACOC potency to stop Harald's regen, while Loki's was blatantly implied to be enough. Even with that, Loki still struggled and got a great opening.
Gaban and Shanks easily dodged Harald, and yes Gaban and Shanks complained about Harald having COC and the fight not ending. Their attacks wasn't doing the job and Harald eventually got them because of the regen. It was the same for Loki who at first was knocking Harald around but was later huffing and bleeding. Harald was getting him too, and Loki won because Harald came back to his senses.
So Gaban and Shanks simply lacked the ACOC potency to stop Harald's regen, while Loki's was blatantly implied to be enough. Even with that, Loki still struggled and got a great opening.
The core issue is that a transformed Loki completely dominated an amped Harald. This is a character who, by narrative implication, stands above the likes of Xebec, Prime Whitebeard, and Roger.
I can genuinely say with confidence that Loki has already surpassed both Xebec and Harald. That’s what the narrative keeps pushing. Loki, even before eating the fruit, was able to get past Ragnir, someone Harald was only confident in challenging after receiving his amp. That already establishes Loki as relative to base Harald before gaining the world-destroying fruit. There’s also a panel of Loki clashing evenly with Harald, so there’s nothing in the story that contradicts this interpretation. If Shanks ends up beating Loki outright, then powerscaling genuinely falls apart.
Even Gaban wasn’t confident that Luffy could handle Loki, despite knowing that the same Luffy had already beaten Kaido. On top of that, Loki has been explicitly established as nerfed for months. We might not even see Loki’s full potential until post-Elbaf.
I can genuinely say with confidence that Loki has already surpassed both Xebec and Harald. That’s what the narrative keeps pushing. Loki, even before eating the fruit, was able to get past Ragnir, someone Harald was only confident in challenging after receiving his amp. That already establishes Loki as relative to base Harald before gaining the world-destroying fruit. There’s also a panel of Loki clashing evenly with Harald, so there’s nothing in the story that contradicts this interpretation. If Shanks ends up beating Loki outright, then powerscaling genuinely falls apart.
Even Gaban wasn’t confident that Luffy could handle Loki, despite knowing that the same Luffy had already beaten Kaido. On top of that, Loki has been explicitly established as nerfed for months. We might not even see Loki’s full potential until post-Elbaf.
The core issue is that a transformed Loki completely dominated an amped Harald. This is a character who, by narrative implication, stands above the likes of Xebec, Prime Whitebeard, and Roger.
I can genuinely say with confidence that Loki has already surpassed both Xebec and Harald. That’s what the narrative keeps pushing. Loki, even before eating the fruit, was able to get past Ragnir, someone Harald was only confident in challenging after receiving his amp. That already establishes Loki as relative to base Harald before gaining the world-destroying fruit. There’s also a panel of Loki clashing evenly with Harald, so there’s nothing in the story that contradicts this interpretation. If Shanks ends up beating Loki outright, then powerscaling genuinely falls apart.
Even Gaban wasn’t confident that Luffy could handle Loki, despite knowing that the same Luffy had already beaten Kaido. On top of that, Loki has been explicitly established as nerfed for months. We might not even see Loki’s full potential until post-Elbaf.
I can genuinely say with confidence that Loki has already surpassed both Xebec and Harald. That’s what the narrative keeps pushing. Loki, even before eating the fruit, was able to get past Ragnir, someone Harald was only confident in challenging after receiving his amp. That already establishes Loki as relative to base Harald before gaining the world-destroying fruit. There’s also a panel of Loki clashing evenly with Harald, so there’s nothing in the story that contradicts this interpretation. If Shanks ends up beating Loki outright, then powerscaling genuinely falls apart.
Even Gaban wasn’t confident that Luffy could handle Loki, despite knowing that the same Luffy had already beaten Kaido. On top of that, Loki has been explicitly established as nerfed for months. We might not even see Loki’s full potential until post-Elbaf.
Also, one of the reasons Harald wanted Loki to eat the fruit was to guarantee that he himself doesn't get it. And Harald is like Xebec in that they both lost their senses and didn't dodge a thing. And Loki still couldn't stop Harald until he came back to senses.
I also don't buy into any "damage lowers their speed, AP, COC" etc. since that rarely ever happens, and characters move faster and hit harder 99% of the time. It's usually reserved for very specific plot points like Zoro vs Hatchi.
