Controversial General Political Discussion
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The religious aspect is important of course, but while it convey the oppression here, is not THE problem (aside from the fundamentalism of course)
The problem (one of) is the worldwide domination system of patriarchy where women are dehumanized, seen as object and used as tools of repressions. This is horrible, but what can be seen here is common in a context of reactionary warfare systems.
The system - in this case - is highly patriarchal and reactionary. The usage of religion is not the motor, it's the symptom. By targeting these two parameters (instead of targeting Islam like the reactionary and imperialist in the west) we can decenter our vision from the reactionary lures, and we can look at the situation more clearly from a feminist and anti-imperialist point of view.
The situation in Iran is complicated and must be tackled with care or it risks being recuperated by the far right and imperialist interest. (which is already what is happening at the moment)
The problem (one of) is the worldwide domination system of patriarchy where women are dehumanized, seen as object and used as tools of repressions. This is horrible, but what can be seen here is common in a context of reactionary warfare systems.
The system - in this case - is highly patriarchal and reactionary. The usage of religion is not the motor, it's the symptom. By targeting these two parameters (instead of targeting Islam like the reactionary and imperialist in the west) we can decenter our vision from the reactionary lures, and we can look at the situation more clearly from a feminist and anti-imperialist point of view.
The situation in Iran is complicated and must be tackled with care or it risks being recuperated by the far right and imperialist interest. (which is already what is happening at the moment)
At the moment, the far right and imperialists holds the subject of Iran and the leftists voices are invizibilized. Precisely because they are trapped between the imperialist recuperation, the reactionary recuperation and the critic of the regime. What I'm doing is trying, while failing obviously, to clarify the subject to prevent this recuperation here.
The religious aspect, while relevant, should be takled with care as it is the symptom, not the actual problem.
The problem is multipolar:
- Patriarchy
- Imperialism
- The reactionarism of the regime
- Israel and US interventions in protest
- Islamophobic reactionary recuperation in the west.
Just like in the case of Venezuela, if we are leftist, our critics must be precise, target the right problem to avoid any kind.
> Attacking the regime on the religion helps strenghten the far right in the west
> Pushing the rethorics for a "progressive" regime change helps the imperialist interest of the west
It's a walk on eggshell situation. That's why I'm a bit picky on the subject at the moment. And I recenter the problem on domination systems instead of directly targeting what can help my political enemies.
The religious aspect, while relevant, should be takled with care as it is the symptom, not the actual problem.
The problem is multipolar:
- Patriarchy
- Imperialism
- The reactionarism of the regime
- Israel and US interventions in protest
- Islamophobic reactionary recuperation in the west.
Just like in the case of Venezuela, if we are leftist, our critics must be precise, target the right problem to avoid any kind.
> Attacking the regime on the religion helps strenghten the far right in the west
> Pushing the rethorics for a "progressive" regime change helps the imperialist interest of the west
It's a walk on eggshell situation. That's why I'm a bit picky on the subject at the moment. And I recenter the problem on domination systems instead of directly targeting what can help my political enemies.
I implore you to do your own research but I'm sure it's a few google searches away. Literally everything you mentioned is what their books tells them to do. Except maybe molesting children. Which falls flat when you consider one of their prophets married a 6 year old and consummated their marriage at 9
Obviously don't generalise. Most religious people (like 99.99%) aren't aware of it and are mostly decent humans. But the foundings of their religion is very fucked by today's standards. Obviously the terrorists take it to the extremes but it's not like they're making something out of nothing. They're simply taking messed up teachings and adding their own extremism to it
or we can criticize both, because islam at face value is still problematic in this context, regardless of patriarchal systems.
its a religion made by men for men to subjugate women among other groups of people.
this or they shape the interpretation of their religion according to their political goals
its a religion made by men for men to subjugate women among other groups of people.
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this or they shape the interpretation of their religion according to their political goals
and without using secondary sources outside of the quran it allows sexual intercourse with prebubescent children anyway
99% is very optimistic lol.
especially if you consider that a third of college educated muslims in great britain think violence is justified to defend their religion (i have the study saved up somewhere, i can try to find it if you want).
but yeah this is of course true, regardless of how many adherents could be considered extremists, we should still be careful with our judgement and assess it on an individual level. i personally for example have never encountered a muslim that supports the death penalty for apostates or homosexuals, even if that is an integral part of their religion.
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99% is very optimistic lol.
especially if you consider that a third of college educated muslims in great britain think violence is justified to defend their religion (i have the study saved up somewhere, i can try to find it if you want).
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but yeah this is of course true, regardless of how many adherents could be considered extremists, we should still be careful with our judgement and assess it on an individual level. i personally for example have never encountered a muslim that supports the death penalty for apostates or homosexuals, even if that is an integral part of their religion.
You will notice overtime that there are fight that you should not fight in politics. Specifically because fighting these fight can help our political enemies.
When fascism and imperialism are at the door, we must stay silent and prepare with care.
Religion is but a symptom. Religion is not the problem, patriarchy is, imperialism is, reactionarism is. And of course, capitalism is.
Targeting religion in the context of fundamentalism, is like creating wanted poster for guns instead of looking that the people who use them and the system that create them while being an activist in a pro gun faction.
Muslim are targeted in the west, and the far right uses Iran as fuel to push imperialist interests in the region & Islamophobic politics and fascism in europe.
If we don't focus and target the right problems instead of helping reactionary wins, we will do not good.
When fascism and imperialism are at the door, we must stay silent and prepare with care.
Religion is but a symptom. Religion is not the problem, patriarchy is, imperialism is, reactionarism is. And of course, capitalism is.
Targeting religion in the context of fundamentalism, is like creating wanted poster for guns instead of looking that the people who use them and the system that create them while being an activist in a pro gun faction.
Muslim are targeted in the west, and the far right uses Iran as fuel to push imperialist interests in the region & Islamophobic politics and fascism in europe.
If we don't focus and target the right problems instead of helping reactionary wins, we will do not good.
islam without patriarchy wouldnt be islam though.
so even if its but a symptom, its deeply intertwined, and backpedalling criticism of problematic authoritarian patriarchal ideologies is in my view not doing good either, regardless of why you are doing it.
but i see where you are coming from and i agree to an extent
so even if its but a symptom, its deeply intertwined, and backpedalling criticism of problematic authoritarian patriarchal ideologies is in my view not doing good either, regardless of why you are doing it.
but i see where you are coming from and i agree to an extent
So would be many things. Islam is not particular. It's just a religion, it's not an institution or a system of domination in itself.
Btw : This, and the systemic oppression faced by muslim is one of the main mindset change that made me realize that I was going the wrong way by targeting the critic of islam as an atheist back in the days.
I wouldn't call it backpedaling, more like strategic targeting. But I guess you get my point.
If what we want to criticize has more chances to help fascism and imperialism than it has to help the situation, the best is to keep silence and wait for the real forces of revolution to speak about the subject. In this case, I'm waiting, for exemple, the communist and marxist organization of Iran who will have more legitimacy to speak about the situation.
But I predict that they are F either way.
Btw : This, and the systemic oppression faced by muslim is one of the main mindset change that made me realize that I was going the wrong way by targeting the critic of islam as an atheist back in the days.
I wouldn't call it backpedaling, more like strategic targeting. But I guess you get my point.
If what we want to criticize has more chances to help fascism and imperialism than it has to help the situation, the best is to keep silence and wait for the real forces of revolution to speak about the subject. In this case, I'm waiting, for exemple, the communist and marxist organization of Iran who will have more legitimacy to speak about the situation.
But I predict that they are F either way.
What rhetoric? It's not my fault their books say such heinous stuff. Lol.
Anyways, I said this
Islam being fucked up doesn't excuse Islamophobia since most Muslims aren't even aware of such stuff and are great humans.
I was referring moreso to all religions in general. I have lived in a secular country for majority of my life and there's a ton of Muslims here and they all happen to be brilliant people. Some of my closest friends are Muslim. But after all, my country is secular and very developed so it may skew my views on what the avg Muslim things since everyone is peaceful here.
That 1/3rd of muslim students believing in it is crazy though. And really scary. Please provide the study if you have the time because that's kinda a tough figure to wrap my brain around lol
I hope you realize there's more than enough material online to do your own research and formulate your own opinion than waiting on a minor communist party in another country to give their opinion on things so you know which side to take. Don't engage in campism. Doing your research and forming opinions on other countries isn't imperialist behaviour.
Anyways, I said this
Islam being fucked up doesn't excuse Islamophobia since most Muslims aren't even aware of such stuff and are great humans.
I was referring moreso to all religions in general. I have lived in a secular country for majority of my life and there's a ton of Muslims here and they all happen to be brilliant people. Some of my closest friends are Muslim. But after all, my country is secular and very developed so it may skew my views on what the avg Muslim things since everyone is peaceful here.
That 1/3rd of muslim students believing in it is crazy though. And really scary. Please provide the study if you have the time because that's kinda a tough figure to wrap my brain around lol
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I hope you realize there's more than enough material online to do your own research and formulate your own opinion than waiting on a minor communist party in another country to give their opinion on things so you know which side to take. Don't engage in campism. Doing your research and forming opinions on other countries isn't imperialist behaviour.