Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love

[Rumble]

I have and continue to believe we will see Judge return in a cutaway scene for some relevant monologue in which he will reveal what Sanji's intended abilities were. Perhaps he will be explicitly come to a conclusion where his fire abilities come from.

All the Raid Suits are just meant to amplify what they already have, and they're coded to their specific DNA with those particular abilities.

Spoiler: Queen copying Germa abilities

The Stealth Black RS manipulated light to achieve invisibility, which Queen also copied (and I imagine his plague ability has something to do with Reiju).

I think Sanji's fire abilities aren't related to his Germa DNA, but if it turns out to be so, then Sanji having the ability to manipulate photons could explain fire being the result of concentrating them.

Given the importance of energy sources when it comes to science, it's possibly Oda intended for all the Germa abilities to be based on different forms of energy:

Reiju = chemical
Ichiji = thermal
Niji = electric
Yonji =mechanical

Sanji could represent radiant energy, which is the energy carried by photons.

I like the idea of PoL being the source of Sanji's fire abilities and ability to destroy lasers, but perhaps the latter feat is actually his Germa ability.

Sanji could perhaps achieve his final flame based on radiant energy or a combination of PoL (fire) + radiant energy.

Radiant energy can create electrons, i.e. they could also explain how Sanji managed to achieve Ifrit Jambe.

The sun itself is a source of radiant energy and Luffy having the DF of the Sun God Nika could explain this choice also.

Which reminds me of this SBS 7 answer.

 

[Hedfi]

I have and continue to believe we will see Judge return in a cutaway scene for some relevant monologue in which he will reveal what Sanji's intended abilities were. Perhaps he will be explicitly come to a conclusion where his fire abilities come from.

All the Raid Suits are just meant to amplify what they already have, and they're coded to their specific DNA with those particular abilities.

Spoiler: Queen copying Germa abilities

The Stealth Black RS manipulated light to achieve invisibility, which Queen also copied (and I imagine his plague ability has something to do with Reiju).

I think Sanji's fire abilities aren't related to his Germa DNA, but if it turns out to be so, then Sanji having the ability to manipulate photons could explain fire being the result of concentrating them.

I think the Germa elemental abilities are related to their RS rather than their DNA. Whenever their biological enhancements are brought up in the series, only the exoskeleton, enhanced physique and regeneration are mentioned. Add to that Queen Germa inspired abilities are obviously related to tech as he's a cyborg, it gives more credence that the germa siblings got their elemental abilities thanks to tech, ie the RS.

The thing that I can remember that could contradict this is that Niji used his electric ability without his RS on against Sanji. But that remains to be explained by Oda and there could many different explanations to that instance that are not related to his lineage factor enhancements. It could simply be that with enough mastery an RS user could gain partial access to his/her elemental ability if they got their RS container on their person.

On a personal level though, I think having Sanji's fire ability be something related to Judge mendling with his DNA and not his mother who is the reason he even has his potent emotions, the very energy of his soul fire, is very lame and contrary to what everything Sanji stand for. I'll only except the evil Sanji plot point as anything to do with Judge go forward, anything else is just redundant.

 

[Rumble]

I think the Germa elemental abilities are related to their RS rather than their DNA

Perhaps you misunderstood, but this is a distinction without a difference. The Raid Suits are coded to the individual DNA.

Sanji's RS would only work for him because it's coded to his DNA, which would be different to his siblings, including his brothers, as they each have distinct abilities.

On a personal level though, I think having Sanji's fire ability be something related to Judge mendling with his DNA and not his mother who is the reason he even has his potent emotions, the very energy of his soul fire, is very lame and contrary to what everything Sanji stand for. I'll only except the evil Sanji plot point as anything to do with Judge go forward, anything else is just redundant.

I preferred Sanji's flames being the result of emotions converted to energy via PoL. My original headcanon was that it was due Buccaneer DNA used for the exoskeleton.

As it stands, it could turn that PoL is what allowed him to tap into some of his Germa abilities, while using the Raid Suit awakened the rest.

Whatever it turns out to be, Oda has hinted at there being a resolution to it.

Sora's meddling tying Sanji's ability to his emotions is the best of both worlds.

 

[Hedfi]

Perhaps you misunderstood, but this is a distinction without a difference. The Raid Suits are coded to the individual DNA.

Sanji's RS would only work for him because it's coded to his DNA, which would be different to his siblings, including his brothers, as they each have distinct abilities.

I'm aware of that, I never claimed otherwise. Their DNA is like their password to access the use of their RS. What I'm claiming is that the elemental abilities(light, electricity, invisibility, poison, winches??) are only accessible via the RS and are purely tech not biology just like the case for Queen. The lineage factor enhancements are only the exoskeleton, super strength/speed and regeneration.

And yeah PoL for the win, screw Judge.

 

[Rumble]

I'm aware of that, I never claimed otherwise. Their DNA is like their password to access the use of their RS. What I'm claiming is that the elemental abilities(light, electricity, invisibility, poison, winches??) are only accessible via the RS and are purely tech not biology just like the case for Queen. The lineage factor enhancements are only the exoskeleton, super strength/speed and regeneration.

And yeah PoL for the win, screw Judge.

The Raid Suits only enhanced their abilities, they are not the source. Clearest examples of this being Niji.

Queen uses their abilities without a Raid Suit because they're not necessary.

Don't forget, the Germa gene modifications are based on the same science that created the Seraphim, minus the Green Blood for DF abilities.

 

[Hedfi]

The Raid Suits only enhanced their abilities, they are not the source. Clearest examples of this being Niji.

Queen uses their abilities without a Raid Suit because they're not necessary.

Don't forget, the Germa gene modifications are based on the same science that created the Seraphim, minus the Green Blood for DF abilities.

I don't remember it ever being mentioned that the RS enhances the inherent biological abilities of the germa siblings. It doesn't enhance the durability of their exoskeletons or the power of their regeneration or their physical strength or speed, outside of booster boors which is tech anyway.

The RS provide extra durabily through the materials or whatever science it was made of as simple as that. The RS ability to fly is also tech related not biology. The elemental abilities could be of the same vein too. You can think of the RS as a DF that can be unequipped freely.

As for the niji instance which is the only possible counter to my argument that I can remember, I already mentioned it earlier, and like I said, that instance could have multiple theoretical explanations outside of inherent genetic ability as Oda himself didn't deem it relevant to explain. And like I said above it could simply be the case that niji has limited access to his electric ability simple for the fact that the container of his RS is on his person or he has cyborg enhancements a la Queen or any other theorical explanation.

 

[Rumble]

I don't remember it ever being mentioned that the RS enhances the inherent biological abilities of the germa siblings. It doesn't enhance the durability of their exoskeletons or the power of their regeneration or their physical strength or speed, outside of booster boors which is tech anyway.

The RS provide extra durabily through the materials or whatever science it was made of as simple as that. The RS ability to fly is also tech related not biology. The elemental abilities could be of the same vein too. You can think of the RS as a DF that can be unequipped freely.

As for the niji instance which is the only possible counter to my argument that I can remember, I already mentioned it earlier, and like I said, that instance could have multiple theoretical explanations outside of inherent genetic ability as Oda himself didn't deem it relevant to explain. And like I said above it could simply be the case that niji has limited access to his electric ability simple for the fact that the container of his RS is on his person or he has cyborg enhancements a la Queen or any other theorical explanation.

Just stop wasting my time and go refresh your memory.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Raid_Suit#Abilities_and_Powers

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Btw I think Dark Knight Sanji might get his wish with regard to Sanji focus in the next few chapters.
For the arc to move into it's climax, I think Oda needs to develop or demonstrate how Sanji can fight the immortals so reckon he'd be focusing on that over the next few chapters.

Btw, does anybody remember what exactly it was Lilith and Franky have been doing since they touched down on Elbaf?
Have they been trying to revive Stella or Kuma? Vaguely remember Lilith saying something of the sort at the start of the arc

 

[kekaro]

Btw I think Dark Knight Sanji might get his wish with regard to Sanji focus in the next few chapters.
For the arc to move into it's climax, I think Oda needs to develop or demonstrate how Sanji can fight the immortals so reckon he'd be focusing on that over the next few chapters.

Btw, does anybody remember what exactly it was Lilith and Franky have been doing since they touched down on Elbaf?
Have they been trying to revive Stella or Kuma? Vaguely remember Lilith saying something of the sort at the start of the arc

From my memory:
Bonney and Lilith wanted to make a home on elbaf, than they discovered the ancient lab together with franky and tey wanted to attack hit but than the HK attack interrupt it

 

[Hedfi]

Just stop wasting my time and go refresh your memory.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Raid_Suit#Abilities_and_Powers

This literally explained shit for all. Nowhere does it say it enhances their genetic abilities.

I'm done with you too, deuces.

 

[Royal Kick]

Taking Wiki as a source when it's written and edited by average Joes like us.

I think the Germa elemental abilities are related to their RS rather than their DNA. Whenever their biological enhancements are brought up in the series, only the exoskeleton, enhanced physique and regeneration are mentioned. Add to that Queen Germa inspired abilities are obviously related to tech as he's a cyborg, it gives more credence that the germa siblings got their elemental abilities thanks to tech, ie the RS.

The thing that I can remember that could contradict this is that Niji used his electric ability without his RS on against Sanji. But that remains to be explained by Oda and there could many different explanations to that instance that are not related to his lineage factor enhancements. It could simply be that with enough mastery an RS user could gain partial access to his/her elemental ability if they got their RS container on their person.

On a personal level though, I think having Sanji's fire ability be something related to Judge mendling with his DNA and not his mother who is the reason he even has his potent emotions, the very energy of his soul fire, is very lame and contrary to what everything Sanji stand for. I'll only except the evil Sanji plot point as anything to do with Judge go forward, anything else is just redundant.

They did say during the Tea Party they're pretty much powerless without their RS. One possibility is that Oda retconned the way their powers work for greater dramatic tension during the Tea Party, and to show how much Sanji is different from them despite being the "failure" of his family, as he doesn't need that tech to be a formidable fighter.

The other possibility is that their elemental abilities are just significantly limited in base. Maybe Perospero's candy drained their energy and it was enough to neutralize their powers because it's entirely dependent on their stamina when they don't wear their RS. That would be consistent with the fact that post-exo awakening Sanji can turn invisible for a short amount of time, but it's dependent on his stamina, whereas he could do it as much as he wanted with the RS. It's my preferred explanation.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Perhaps you misunderstood, but this is a distinction without a difference. The Raid Suits are coded to the individual DNA.

Sanji's RS would only work for him because it's coded to his DNA, which would be different to his siblings, including his brothers, as they each have distinct abilities.



I preferred Sanji's flames being the result of emotions converted to energy via PoL. My original headcanon was that it was due Buccaneer DNA used for the exoskeleton.

As it stands, it could turn that PoL is what allowed him to tap into some of his Germa abilities, while using the Raid Suit awakened the rest.

Whatever it turns out to be, Oda has hinted at there being a resolution to it.

Sora's meddling tying Sanji's ability to his emotions is the best of both worlds.

The raid suits aren’t coded to their exact dna it’s coded to vinsmoke dna. They’ve been passed down for generations afterall.

 

[Dark Knight Sanji]

Btw I think Dark Knight Sanji might get his wish with regard to Sanji focus in the next few chapters.
For the arc to move into it's climax, I think Oda needs to develop or demonstrate how Sanji can fight the immortals so reckon he'd be focusing on that over the next few chapters.

Btw, does anybody remember what exactly it was Lilith and Franky have been doing since they touched down on Elbaf?
Have they been trying to revive Stella or Kuma? Vaguely remember Lilith saying something of the sort at the start of the arc

Basically, the fight starts as a massive stalemate. Sanji can't bypass Killingham's Holy Knight healing, and Killingham can't break the Germa exoskeleton. So, Killingham uses his awakened Zoan power to turn into Sanji’s literal worst nightmare: a cold, emotionless, black-haired Stealth Black clone.
Sanji freezes up, and the clone starts destroying him, talking insane trash. It tells Sanji he's a liability and that all the sacrifices made for him—Sora dying, Zeff eating his leg, Luffy fighting Big Mom—were totally wasted on a defective, emotional failure.
As Killingham mentions he may want to have the orange haired one as his persoanl slave we get a flashback to Scopper Gaban talking about a Conqueror having an "unyielding spear of grit." This perfectly ties back to Zeff telling Sanji to stop chewing his own spear. It finally clicks for Sanji: his mom, Zeff, and Luffy didn't go through hell because they wanted a perfect, soulless weapon. They did it because they love him—chivalry, emotions, and all.
Accepting his true worth instantly unlocks his Conqueror's Haki. And the reason he can use Advanced Conqueror's (ACoC) right off the bat. Sanji has been weaponizing his soul for years with Diable and Ifrit Jambe. He already knows how to project his inner passion into his physical strikes, so his newly awakened King's Haki just naturally flows right into his flames.

Suddenly, he's radiating black lightning. Killingham is terrified, screaming about how a mere cook could have a King's ambition. Sanji just lights a cigarette, drops the hardest line about his resolve being fueled by the "Power of Love," and absolutely blitzes him. One massive ACoC kick bypasses the healing completely and shatters the clone for good.

 

[Devilbat]

Basically, the fight starts as a massive stalemate. Sanji can't bypass Killingham's Holy Knight healing, and Killingham can't break the Germa exoskeleton. So, Killingham uses his awakened Zoan power to turn into Sanji’s literal worst nightmare: a cold, emotionless, black-haired Stealth Black clone.
Sanji freezes up, and the clone starts destroying him, talking insane trash. It tells Sanji he's a liability and that all the sacrifices made for him—Sora dying, Zeff eating his leg, Luffy fighting Big Mom—were totally wasted on a defective, emotional failure.
As Killingham mentions he may want to have the orange haired one as his persoanl slave we get a flashback to Scopper Gaban talking about a Conqueror having an "unyielding spear of grit." This perfectly ties back to Zeff telling Sanji to stop chewing his own spear. It finally clicks for Sanji: his mom, Zeff, and Luffy didn't go through hell because they wanted a perfect, soulless weapon. They did it because they love him—chivalry, emotions, and all.
Accepting his true worth instantly unlocks his Conqueror's Haki. And the reason he can use Advanced Conqueror's (ACoC) right off the bat. Sanji has been weaponizing his soul for years with Diable and Ifrit Jambe. He already knows how to project his inner passion into his physical strikes, so his newly awakened King's Haki just naturally flows right into his flames.

Suddenly, he's radiating black lightning. Killingham is terrified, screaming about how a mere cook could have a King's ambition. Sanji just lights a cigarette, drops the hardest line about his resolve being fueled by the "Power of Love," and absolutely blitzes him. One massive ACoC kick bypasses the healing completely and shatters the clone for good.

That's actually.... pretty dope. I wouldn't mind if the fight went this way. Let's hope Oda doesn't read WG because usually he doesn't like it when fans guess anything really closely to how he planned it.

 

[Devilbat]

Meanwhile I got another golden Sanji for voting! Time to update my avi 🔥🔥🔥

 

[Hedfi]

They did say during the Tea Party they're pretty much powerless without their RS. One possibility is that Oda retconned the way their powers work for greater dramatic tension during the Tea Party, and to show how much Sanji is different from them despite being the "failure" of his family, as he doesn't need that tech to be a formidable fighter.

The other possibility is that their elemental abilities are just significantly limited in base. Maybe Perospero's candy drained their energy and it was enough to neutralize their powers because it's entirely dependent on their stamina when they don't wear their RS. That would be consistent with the fact that post-exo awakening Sanji can turn invisible for a short amount of time, but it's dependent on his stamina, whereas he could do it as much as he wanted with the RS. It's my preferred explanation.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, them not being able to use their elemental abilities to even attempt to escape the candy prinson is a good indicator that these abilities are not innate in nature but RS related. Otherwise ichiji and niji should have been able to melt their own way out of their prison with no major issues as their power over lazers and lightning are good elemental counters to perosperos' candy ability.

As for Sanji becoming invisible against Queen, that's just thanks to his super speed, not any kind of special ability. Even Oda explained as such in an sbs iirc.

 

[Royal Kick]

Yeah, them not being able to use their elemental abilities to even attempt to escape the candy prinson is a good indicator that these abilities are not innate in nature but RS related. Otherwise ichiji and niji should have been able to melt their own way out of their prison with no major issues as their power over lazers and lightning are good elemental counters to perosperos' candy ability.

As for Sanji becoming invisible against Queen, that's just thanks to his super speed, not any kind of special ability. Even Oda explained as such in an sbs iirc.

I suggested their abilities in base could be stamina-based and Perospero's candy might have drained their energy, making them de facto powerless.

I know Sanji's invisibility post-exo is due to his speed, but he can still effectively turn invisible for a short amount of time thanks to his Germa enhancements making him faster, whereas he can do it indefinitely with the RS thanks to his cloak projecting the background onto him. At the end of the day, it's still invisibility in both cases, but the RS enhanced it, made it more efficient. This is consistent with the idea of his siblings only needing their RS to use their elemental abilities with no limits, without being dependent on their stamina.

 

[Rumble]

Taking Wiki as a source when it's written and edited by average Joes like us.

Contributors have to cite their evidence and defend their claims, which is evidently beyond your ability.

You can't even @ the person you take shots at. That doesn't make you an Average Joe, it makes you an extraordinarily insecure pussy.

The raid suits aren’t coded to their exact dna it’s coded to vinsmoke dna.

It was never stated any Raid Suit can be activated by any Vinsmoke. The only statement we have to that effect are the Strawhats speculating only Sanji can activate the suit Niji gave him.

Given the canisters are clearly marked with indicators who they're for, and each Raid Suit comes with different equipment and functionalities corresponding to the individual abilities of Germa 66 that Judge developed, basic logic and deduction indicates the suits are keyed to specific individuals, i.e. Niji could not use Sanji's Raid Suit and vice versa.

Even if that were the case, which is disputable to be generous, it's unlikely they would work as effectively with respect to their individual abilities, which are only enhanced by the suits. e.g. Reiju doesn't need her suit to process poison, but her suit helps given it clearly reacts when she does it while wearing it, and it's implied Ichiji can shoot energy from his eyes, and his Raid Suit comes with gauntlets that augment that ability.

They’ve been passed down for generations afterall.

I can only assume you think the Germa of 300 years ago used the same Raid Suits because of the comic strip, but it's clear to me those are not 1:1 depictions.

The Germa used older incarnations of the Raid Suit but they were evidently not as advanced. Not only would the contrary imply Germa technology stagnated for at least 300 years without evidence and further undermine Judge's genius, Judge specifically called out Sanji's lack of familiarity with functionalities owing to the advancements developed through warfare.

Spoiler: ch 833

 

[Royal Kick]

Contributors have to cite their evidence and defend their claims, which is evidently beyond your ability.

You can't even @ the person you take shots at. That doesn't make you an Average Joe, it makes you an extraordinarily insecure pussy.



It was never stated any Raid Suit can be activated by any Vinsmoke. The only statement we have to that effect are the Strawhats speculating only Sanji can activate the suit Niji gave him.

Given the canisters are clearly marked with indicators who they're for, and each Raid Suit comes with different equipment and functionalities corresponding to the individual abilities of Germa 66 that Judge developed, basic logic and deduction indicates the suits are keyed to specific individuals, i.e. Niji could not use Sanji's Raid Suit and vice versa.

Even if that were the case, which is disputable to be generous, it's unlikely they would work as effectively with respect to their individual abilities, which are only enhanced by the suits. e.g. Reiju doesn't need her suit to process poison, but her suit helps given it clearly reacts when she does it while wearing it, and it's implied Ichiji can shoot energy from his eyes, and his Raid Suit comes with gauntlets that augment that ability.



I can only assume you think the Germa of 300 years ago used the same Raid Suits because of the comic strip, but it's clear to me those are not 1:1 depictions.

The Germa used older incarnations of the Raid Suit but they were evidently not as advanced. Not only would the contrary imply Germa technology stagnated for at least 300 years without evidence and further undermine Judge's genius, Judge specifically called out Sanji's lack of familiarity with functionalities owing to the advancements developed through warfare.

Spoiler: ch 833

I'm saying we're all average Joes, including wiki contributors. They're nobodies just interpreting things like us, not an authority figure. "Citing evidence and defending claims" doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make it a canon source when it does more than directly cite canon source.

You have a habit of miserably failing at making a convincing point and trying to compensate with aggressiveness and stupid accusations, yet still delude yourself into thinking you know better than everyone else. When I don't tag someone, it just means I don't have enough respect for them to engage in discussions with them, not that I'm shaking in my boots because I'm scared of being bullied by you. If I were, I wouldn't post my remarks here, where I know you'll inevitably read what I said and have the liberty to respond.

This alpha male nonsense is something that exists only in your head, it's just childish toxicity. Hopefully you'll realize it one day.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Contributors have to cite their evidence and defend their claims, which is evidently beyond your ability.

You can't even @ the person you take shots at. That doesn't make you an Average Joe, it makes you an extraordinarily insecure pussy.



It was never stated any Raid Suit can be activated by any Vinsmoke. The only statement we have to that effect are the Strawhats speculating only Sanji can activate the suit Niji gave him.

Given the canisters are clearly marked with indicators who they're for, and each Raid Suit comes with different equipment and functionalities corresponding to the individual abilities of Germa 66 that Judge developed, basic logic and deduction indicates the suits are keyed to specific individuals, i.e. Niji could not use Sanji's Raid Suit and vice versa.

Even if that were the case, which is disputable to be generous, it's unlikely they would work as effectively with respect to their individual abilities, which are only enhanced by the suits. e.g. Reiju doesn't need her suit to process poison, but her suit helps given it clearly reacts when she does it while wearing it, and it's implied Ichiji can shoot energy from his eyes, and his Raid Suit comes with gauntlets that augment that ability.



I can only assume you think the Germa of 300 years ago used the same Raid Suits because of the comic strip, but it's clear to me those are not 1:1 depictions.

The Germa used older incarnations of the Raid Suit but they were evidently not as advanced. Not only would the contrary imply Germa technology stagnated for at least 300 years without evidence and further undermine Judge's genius, Judge specifically called out Sanji's lack of familiarity with functionalities owing to the advancements developed through warfare.

Spoiler: ch 833

We’re told the raid suits and their abilities predate Sanjis life as Law and Vito (older characters) read volumes and volumes about Germa in a comic strip that predates Sanji.

Queen also stated that the Raid Suit abilities are “Germa Science” not “Judges science” which is what he attributes the exoskeleton to. Judge is right about the change in germa though, his cloning technology.

Finally there’s evidence that Niji was also using the Stealth Black suit as just like his base form is able to use “Henry Needle” like Blue, his base form is able to use “Stealth” like Black.

The raid suits are locked to Vinsmoke dna, not individual DNA.