Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

So many associate Marxism with violent extremism. Nowhere in Marxism/Karl Marx's work does it advocate for violence. It simply theorizes that the worker class will revolt and takeover after enough exploitation from the owner class. Communism doesn't advocate for violence either.

The violence comes from Marxist Revolutionist, Leninism, and Maxist-Leninism, all straight up advocating for violent uprising and establishing a dictatorship of the worker class in different ways lol.

Then there's Revisionist Marxism which rejects any form of violent revolution, and Anarcho-Communism which rejects any form of authoritarianism.

It's almost like there's a spectrum flooded with nuance lmao

The fights between marxists are some sights to see

 

[Roo]

So many associate Marxism with violent extremism. Nowhere in Marxism/Karl Marx's work does it advocate for violence. It simply theorizes that the worker class will revolt and takeover after enough exploitation from the owner class. Communism doesn't advocate for violence either.

The violence comes from Marxist Revolutionist, Leninism, and Maxist-Leninism, all straight up advocating for violent uprising and establishing a dictatorship of the worker class in different ways lol.

Then there's Revisionist Marxism which rejects any form of violent revolution, and Anarcho-Communism which rejects any form of authoritarianism.

It's almost like there's a spectrum flooded with nuance lmao

Communism necessitates violence in practice tho

Anyways it’s hilarious Marxist take the observations of an obviously wrong guy that applied during the Industrial Revolution and still to try apply to a very different world

 

[Logiko]

Communism necessitates violence in practice tho

Anyways it’s hilarious Marxist take the observations of an obviously wrong guy that applied during the Industrial Revolution and still to try apply to a very different world

It's the same world mate

 

[Uncle Van]

Communism necessitates violence in practice tho

Anyways it’s hilarious Marxist take the observations of an obviously wrong guy that applied during the Industrial Revolution and still to try apply to a very different world

In practice within the current and past landscapes yes. Capitalism is dominant on a global scale, and there's no way you can quickly implement massive overhauls of an entire economic system without force. But doing it by force guarantees significant social and economic unrest, prompting even more authorianism to shut people up.

Hell, back in the day, the Capitalism those guys had to deal with was one where consistent work schedules, time off, benefits, decent pay, and no child labor didn't exist and was the norm. Your boss could gun you down without consequence if you protested back in the day. It's pretty different now.

 

[Reborn]

The thing with the U.S. is that it’s ultimately the hegemony, meaning relations can be easily repaired under the right president

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2034420760970682721

Looks like the Gulf countries are preparing for retaliation

We already saw World pushing back against US hegemony in past one year. And, the push back is coming from US allies - NATO, Australia, S.Korea, Japan

Relationship can improve in upcoming years but world is gradually moving away from US and this can't be undone.

Iran is kind of rouge now. Their command structure is scattered. They are targetting soft targets.


Qatar warned Iran as well last night.

One can understand the apprehension that their participation would engulf whole region but going on offense is right approach. They can't just be sitting duck for weeks and let Iran attack them.

Baharin and UAE will follow the footsteps.

And, with Saudi into the mix, things would become a bit more complicated because Saudi have defence agreement with Pakistan (already at war with Afghanistan)


Then, Houthis will come out in support of Iran. They gave hints few days ago that if Iran wants then they will attack.


And, if the whole region goes into the war with each other then I doubt NATO can stay silent as well.

 

[Roo]

Hell, back in the day, the Capitalism those guys had to deal with was one where consistent work schedules, time off, benefits, decent pay, and no child labor didn't exist and was the norm. Your boss could gun you down without consequence if you protested back in the day. It's pretty different now.

Yeah it's pretty funny considering Marx was more of a "modernist" philosopher. He would probably view people who still try to apply his theories n the modern day very lowly. Hell his theories were outright wrong, he predicted a worldwide workers revolution that never occurred because industrialization just went on a different route. If he were a scientist we wouldn't be talking about him

It's the same world mate

I mean just look at people who still delude themselves lmao

 

[Reborn]

So many associate Marxism with violent extremism. Nowhere in Marxism/Karl Marx's work does it advocate for violence. It simply theorizes that the worker class will revolt and takeover after enough exploitation from the owner class. Communism doesn't advocate for violence either.

The violence comes from Marxist Revolutionist, Leninism, and Maxist-Leninism, all straight up advocating for violent uprising and establishing a dictatorship of the worker class in different ways lol.

Then there's Revisionist Marxism which rejects any form of violent revolution, and Anarcho-Communism which rejects any form of authoritarianism.

It's almost like there's a spectrum flooded with nuance lmao

Karl Marx in his work did advocate for violence as necessary means if required

 

[Logiko]

Yeah it's pretty funny considering Marx was more of a "modernist" philosopher. He would probably view people who still try to apply his theorist in the modern day very lowly. Hell his theories were outright wrong, he predicted a worldwide workers revolution that never occurred because industrialization just went on a different route. If he were a scientist we wouldn't be talking about him

Marx has to be viewed through multiple lens. The keys in his work are the inner logics of capitalism and the ways it can be viewed as a system of exploitation. But marxism alone is not enough, a clear understanding of all the domination systems and the knowledge of their intersections are needed to really grasp a way to create a brand new world.

I mean just look at people who still delude themselves lmao

The logic of the world never changed. We are still in the old world with the same rules, only softenned up a little for some through reforsm.

But the power relationships, the domination of the bourgeoisie, the extractive, exploitative and oppressive nature of capitalism overall never changed.

 

[Uncle Van]

Yeah it's pretty funny considering Marx was more of a "modernist" philosopher. He would probably view people who still try to apply his theories n the modern day very lowly. Hell his theories were outright wrong, he predicted a worldwide workers revolution that never occurred because industrialization just went on a different route. If he were a scientist we wouldn't be talking about him


I mean just look at people who still delude themselves lmao

Yeah Capitalism back in his day was absolutely F.U.B.A.R(fucked up beyond all recognition). Capitalism went through many revisions and modifications since then whenever it started to collapse.

Karl Marx in his work did advocate for violence as necessary means if required

Not the same as Leninism and the like. Marx still saw violence as an inevitability since exploitation will continue to spread and grow. Once the situation become bad enough, it will become necessary for the workers to take arms.

For Leninism and his ilk, they just straight up said Capitalism is bad so we might as well destroy it right now. There was no waiting for things to reach the endpoint, Hard to put it into words. Fight back when they hit you vs lets fight since they gonna hit us eventually anyways?

 

[Reborn]

Yeah Capitalism back in his day was absolutely F.U.B.A.R(fucked up beyond all recognition). Capitalism went through many revisions and modifications since then whenever it started to collapse.



Not the same as Leninism and the like. Marx still saw violence as an inevitability since exploitation will continue to spread and grow. Once the situation become bad enough, it will become necessary for the workers to take arms.

For Leninism and his ilk, they just straight up said Capitalism is bad so we might as well destroy it right now. There was no waiting for things to reach the endpoint, Hard to put it into words. Fight back when they hit you vs lets fight since they gonna hit us eventually anyways?

Not same but he did advocate.

In his communist manifesto, Karl Marx said - The Communists… openly declare that their ends can be attained "only by the forcible overthrow" of all existing social conditions.

Later, at communist league he said - There is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society… can be shortened… "revolutionary terror."

For him, violence is necessary if required. He didn't glorify it but he advocated it clearly.

 

[Reborn]

Iran is being suicidal right now.

It struck Australian Airbase and this is when Australia clearly refused to help US in securing Hormuz.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Iran is being suicidal right now.

It struck Australian Airbase and this is when Australia clearly refused to help US in securing Hormuz.

This is why you shouldn't rely on twitter takes

Most are convinced that Tel Aviv is burning beyond recognition

 

[Reborn]

This is why you shouldn't rely on twitter takes

Most are convinced that Tel Aviv is burning beyond recognition

Nothing to do with burning or not but it's about spreading the war to engulf nations which even refused to help US.

Perhaps it was due to Australia offering asylum to Iranian women football team but even this won't justify Iran striking Australian air base.

It's suicidal because this is like giving reasons to US allies to band together to strike Iran.

 

[Midnight Delight]

It's suicidal because this is like giving reasons to US allies to band together to strike Iran.

Tbh if it wasn't political suicide many would have joined by now

 

[Reborn]

Tbh if it wasn't political suicide many would have joined by now

Kind of yeah

Unless there's clear intention of overthrowing the regime with ground troops which there isn't.

 

[Mathias]

I don’t care about oil wars because I am a bike person. Only losers are scared by the strait of Hormuz.

Kind of yeah

Unless there's clear intention of overthrowing the regime with ground troops which there isn't.

Deploying troops would probably be already underway if the logistical requirements were set. It took the mofo a month to strike Iran because he had to move the US ships across the world due to having no support by Iran’s neighbours military bases. Do you think troops are just sent across earth like this ? Especially in a well surrounded country like Iran with the current context and its comparisons to 2003 Iraq

 

[Blax Blah]

Yeah it's pretty funny considering Marx was more of a "modernist" philosopher. He would probably view people who still try to apply his theories n the modern day very lowly. Hell his theories were outright wrong, he predicted a worldwide workers revolution that never occurred because industrialization just went on a different route. If he were a scientist we wouldn't be talking about him


I mean just look at people who still delude themselves lmao

Yeah Capitalism back in his day was absolutely F.U.B.A.R(fucked up beyond all recognition). Capitalism went through many revisions and modifications since then whenever it started to collapse.



Not the same as Leninism and the like. Marx still saw violence as an inevitability since exploitation will continue to spread and grow. Once the situation become bad enough, it will become necessary for the workers to take arms.

For Leninism and his ilk, they just straight up said Capitalism is bad so we might as well destroy it right now. There was no waiting for things to reach the endpoint, Hard to put it into words. Fight back when they hit you vs lets fight since they gonna hit us eventually anyways?

Fun fact, if you go through the political theory of their time, when capitalism was new, they mention how capitalism was having a big crisis every 5 years

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Oil is at 119 $

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Folks i cant wait for Gas bill it will be bigly thanks to Donnie .

 

[Reborn]

Oil is at 119 $

India purchased 30 million barrels at 6 to 8$ premium (higher than global prices) from Russia.

Russia is gaining so much from this crisis.

US was crying last year about how India and China buying Russian oil is helping Russia in its war against Ukraine.

And, now America end up creating a situation where Russia is gaining much more than since the time Ukraine war started.


World economies are diversifying sources - even Canada is gaining from this crisis.

I guess in long term countries will reduce their dependency on Hormuz and Gulf