Controversial General Political Discussion

[Reborn]

You simply need time. You will see. It will come. When you rights start being squashed by capitalism.



Mate. There is a LOT of things that I don't understand. But what I'm telling you, is as close as a certitude as the fact that black holes exists. If you never take into account the fact that I KNOW your viewpoint because I went there.. you will not see why I'm constantly saying that you "don't understand".

I had your vision of the world.

I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking specifically about the things that I explaining and the things you people are saying in response . You are literally giving me the SAME ARGUMENTS that I was giving to what I we called "SJW" 8-9 years ago. And sometimes even worse:

> "black people can be racist"
> "don't invent your own definitions"
> "leftists are hurting their own cause"
> "The left is stupid"
> "Meritocratie is necessary"
> "People should get a permit to vote"
> "I believe that we should be able to fire people if necessary, free enterprise baby!"
> "The right VS left is stupid, there is good in both sides"
> "Centrists are the most rationnal people of all"
And so much more

I said ALL OF THAT myself back in the day. You guyz can't fool me. I'm already mad.



But you are thinking that I'm the mad one that shouldn't be taken seriousely.. because I challenge too much your preconception of the world and you don't like that. It makes you mad. Oh the irony.. because it's true.. I was you and now I'm mad.

But being mad does not prevent one from being clever. Welcome to the wonderland.

I don't know from where all that stuff came from.

My argument is simple
Leftists and liberals do play role in the rise of the right and vice versa.

Political systems are interconnected ecosystems. Every component in this system interact with eachother and influence each other. They do react to each other including different voters base and leaders.

It's just not about policies but how these policies are communicated, how much it resonates with people and how much people feel heard or connected.

Just like how rightist rhetoric or policies mobilize leftist/liberals resistance, we see similar reactions from the right when it comes to left/liberals policies or rhetoric.

It's not about blame but reality that each side co-creates the other's intensity and growth.

Saying leftists don't play role in the rise of right is shedding away the responsibility and reality

 

[Midnight Delight]

@Roo @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier Ghana demanding reparations for Slavery is wild tho

One would think reparations would go to the people who's ancestors got enslaved, not the people who conquered their neighbours and sold them to foreigners for gold

 

[Logiko]

Black people literally can be racist though lol

Yes, but not against white people.

So tha man tells you he, along with many others in this very thread that you are wrong and are using their own experiences and you’re response is “no YALL don’t know yet. But I do”

Ion know if MZTS is a POC or black or sum, but if he is. This bout to be wildly hilarious lmao

Concernism has its limits.

Racism comes from the people. It is also the people that uses it as a tool of domination within their system. Once culture and law implement racism does it become systematic.

A system is bigger than a person, it's like this:

You know this gif, I already used it. The system is the circle, it is formed by the people, but also by their organization, their motion, their direction, the size etc. These, in real life are the instutions, the states, the social norms. But yes, the system is ultimately formed by people. But here is the real point:

It's not enough for people inside the circle to say "I want to stop dancing", they are in motion, and the motion will continue without them until there is only one left, the motion is still here and will eventually lead more people to join the circle. This "inertia" is the pressure I'm talking about. It's the education, the learned behaviors, the manners.

THings that are not inherited, but learned. Things that can be stopped but only at the condition that we understand the structure of the system and we attack it as a system.

Racism is a circle in motion from where we can't just extract yourself, it binds us through our education and behaviors. TO stop racism, changing behaviors is not enough. We must attack the domination for what it is, and institutionnal system of exploitation and domination.

It's comes from the people, but it's much more in reality.

Remember this: Racism was CREATED as a system of domination. It's never became one.

You lose the plot when you extend tnem beyond their meaning and rephrase in ways that makes them inaccurate.

Angela Davis

They literally do but ok. Let's not pretend that left is somehow without flaw(dont take this is as "left the is sole problem!" again)

People use facts to tell lies and vice versa all the time. Hope bout not supplying them ammo.

Nobody is saying the left has no flaws. MANY leftists are stupido. Even some revolutionnaries are racist/ableist/sexist.

The point is: there is no equivalency between the left and the right. The left is generally right and the right is completely wrong.

You're using words incorrectly and people are pointing it out. Nothing more, nothing less.

Claudia Jones

He is lol. Logiko tried the same with me too insinuating that black people screwed by cops can't become cops or not grow up hateful

Indeed. It was dumb. At the time, I didn't knew this man:

Frantz Fanon

I don't know from where all that stuff came from.

Judith Ezekiel

William Edward Burghardt Du Bois

(I should've done this from the beginning, I'm so stoopid)

Leftists and liberals do play role in the rise of the right and vice versa.

Political systems are interconnected ecosystems. Every component in this system interact with eachother and influence each other. They do react to each other including different voters base and leaders.

Your argument is idealistic. It's stand on the idealist philosophy that ideologies and viewpoints are one of the biggest factor of social change.

I say : this is wrong. Why? Because materialism. Because reality is not working in an idealistic way where the will of some will completely overide the agency of others to become someone else.

A fascist does not become fascist out of spite of leftist, they become fascist because of material interests, usually racial that they understand either consciousely or not. These material interest are what guide most of their leaning.

As for the acceptance of new beliefs. Researchers already understood that ideas are not developping that way. In reality, it's the opposite. The more people will enter in contact with people who believe in X idea, the most likely they will to adopt said X belief. Usually, that circle is the close one (family, friends).

A person outside of the circle will not influence you when you are already disagreeing with them and it will not push toward another attractive pole. The attraction comes from the size and magnitude of the pole. If the circle of influence is small but heavily linked and heavily radical, it has the potential of converting the ENTIRE spectrum.

What happens in politics, is that two poles are fighting for the attraction of people. Some people are attracted to the left, other to the right.

And what pushes people toward one side or the other are:

- Their material interest
- The strenght of the pull.

NOT THE OTHER POLE. if it was the case, all leftist would be antifascist. And that's not the case.

 

[Reborn]

Yes, but not against white people.



Concernism has its limits.

A system is bigger than a person, it's like this:

You know this gif, I already used it. The system is the circle, it is formed by the people, but also by their organization, their motion, their direction, the size etc. These, in real life are the instutions, the states, the social norms. But yes, the system is ultimately formed by people. But here is the real point:

It's not enough for people inside the circle to say "I want to stop dancing", they are in motion, and the motion will continue without them until there is only one left, the motion is still here and will eventually lead more people to join the circle. This "inertia" is the pressure I'm talking about. It's the education, the learned behaviors, the manners.

THings that are not inherited, but learned. Things that can be stopped but only at the condition that we understand the structure of the system and we attack it as a system.

Racism is a circle in motion from where we can't just extract yourself, it binds us through our education and behaviors. TO stop racism, changing behaviors is not enough. We must attack the domination for what it is, and institutionnal system of exploitation and domination.

It's comes from the people, but it's much more in reality.

Remember this: Racism was CREATED as a system of domination. It's never became one.

Nobody is saying the left has no flaws. MANY leftists are stupido. Even some revolutionnaries are racist/ableist/sexist.

The point is: there is no equivalency between the left and the right. The left is generally right and the right is completely wrong.

Indeed. It was dumb. At the time, I didn't knew this man:

(I should've done this from the beginning, I'm so stoopid)



Your argument is idealistic. It's stand on the idealist philosophy that ideologies and viewpoints are one of the biggest factor of social change.

I say : this is wrong. Why? become materialism. Because reality is not working in an idealistic way where the will of some will completely overide the agency of others to become someone else.

A fascist does not become fascist out of spite of leftist, they become fascist because of material interests, usually racial that they understand either consciousely or not. These material interest are what guide most of their leaning.

As for the acceptance of new beliefs. Researchers already understood that ideas are not developping that way. In reality, it's the opposite. The more people will enter in contact with people who believe in X idea, the most likely they will to adopt said X belief. Usually, that circle is the close one (family, friends).

A person outside of the circle will not influence you when you are already disagreeing with them and it will not push toward another attractive pole. The attraction comes from the size and magnitude of the pole. If the circle of influence is small but heavily linked and heavily radical, it has the potential of converting the ENTIRE spectrum.

What happens in politics, is that two poles are fighting for the attraction of people. Some people are attracted to the left, other to the right.

And what pushes people toward one side or the other are:

- Their material interest
- The strenght of the pull.

NOT THE OTHER POLE. if it was the case, all leftist would be antifascist. And that's not the case.

You saying wrong doesn't make the argument wrong. It just shows you didn't understand my point of argument at all and focusing more on saying your own rhetoric.

This isn't about right or left or liberals. It's about the system itself

 

[Logiko]

You saying wrong doesn't make the argument wrong. It just shows you didn't understand my point of argument at all and focusing more on saying your own rhetoric.

This isn't about right or left or liberals. It's about the system itself

No I perfectly understand your point. For a good reason, we have problem with people on the left using this exact rethoric to avoid materialist action and politics. If i'm telling you it's wrong, it's not because I didn't understand, it's because I know that reality does not work that way.

Yes, the political system is interconnected, but not in the way you demonstrated. It's mostly about material interests relative to the material conditions of existence of people. And sometimes (especially in the case of black people) about the influence of domination systems and the perceived interest in said structure (whiteness)

 

[Logiko]

Hitler did not rise to power because people where afraid of communist and jews. Hitler USED the racism present in the country to appeal to fascist interests thus PULLING germans toward the far right.

It's the liberal center who gave Hitler the power. Not because the left was saying radical stuff, but because, they considered that fascism was more lucrative for them and their interest.

I'm not the one saying this: this man is:

Johann Chapouteau. Historian specialized on Nazism

 

[Reborn]

Bro is too radicalised for his own good.

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

How do I escape the capitalism that's still keeping me unemployed living in my mama basement?

 

[Logiko]

Bro is too radicalised for his own good.

Too politicized perhaps, but not too radical. In term of radicality on my current political point, I'm a gentle puppy.

 

[Logiko]

How do I escape the capitalism that's still keeping me unemployed living in my mama basement?

Find a controller for once. You are not gonna play well with a hamburger

 

[Reborn]

How do I escape the capitalism that's still keeping me unemployed living in my mama basement?

If you ignore belly button then there's no difference in the stomach in the image and my head

 

[Reborn]

Too politicized perhaps, but not too radical. In term of radicality on my current political point, I'm a gentle puppy.

It's mix of both.

Your beliefs became rigid and are tilting towards extreme and at the same times it's too politicized as well

 

[Midnight Delight]

How do I escape the capitalism that's still keeping me unemployed living in my mama basement?

Start drinking Monster and get jiggy with it

 

[Reborn]

International Olympic committee has banned transgender women from competing in female olympic events.

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

International Olympic committee has banned transgender women from competing in female olympic events.

@Logiko Thoughts?

 

[Logiko]

It's mix of both.

Your beliefs became rigid and are tilting towards extreme and at the same times it's too politicized as well

That's your belief. But contrary to what you may think, I'm still largely flexible on my belief system. In fact, what I told you is something that is still very new to me.

But let me ask you a question: Do you feel like your are not too rigid on your belief that the earth is rotating around the sun?

International Olympic committee has banned transgender women from competing in female olympic events.

@Logiko Thoughts?

Fuck the olympics.

 

[Reborn]

That's your belief. But contrary to what you may think, I'm still largely flexible on my belief system. In fact, what I told you is something that is still very new to me.

But let me ask you a question: Do you feel like your are not too rigid on your belief that the earth is rotating around the sun?




Fuck the olympics.

False equivalence

There's a difference between being firm about opinions/beliefs and being firm about something that has been tested, evidence based and observed numerous times.

 

[Reborn]

@Logiko Thoughts?

Ask for my thoughts as well

 

[AverageBuggyEnjoyer]

Ask for my thoughts as well

We have the greatest political thinker of our times in the thread, I'm sorry I'm not going to have access to Shakespeare and ask for English lessons from minamoto

 

[Reborn]

We have the greatest political thinker of our times in the thread, I'm sorry I'm not going to have access to Shakespeare and ask for English lessons from minamoto

Despite all that glazing and simping, don't forget he once called you biggest clown on this forum