Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Ah yes, the classic technique of denying any definition that isn't the one you made up for your own personal agenda that barely anyone else will ever use, as opposed to the most popular and objectively correct definition that professionals have cosigned for decades on end.

Sigh.. I'm not denying your definition, I'm telling you that it is simplistic. It's a vulgarized vision of racism, completely depoliticized, unscientific, unresearch, individualized, without historical context. It's good for kids, it's useless for us.

And I'm not "making my own personal agenda". I'm simply passing the knowledge I was given by people who know much better than both you and me reunited and multipled by 10. Really mate. Stop making it seems like it's "my vision". It's the vision of people who worked on this subject for a century, have theorized, researched, analysed and politicized the term to make a change.

"barely anyone else will ever use" because these people are not politicize and don't care about racism. You should know that.

Professionnal DON'T use your definition only teachers do and teachers are not professionals of racism. Professionnal (as in researchers) go far beyond. So do the same, think beyond.

 

[Logiko]

Argentina is where tons of Nazis fled after WWII, so I’d buy it

It is argentina. Not really surprising. And Europe f abstained....

 

[Mathias]

To be fair even in middle and high school I was told by history teachers that definitions are always made up by someone with a point of view. Always. They took certain examples from encyclopaedias through the ages and definition books by certain religious like in the Protestant vs Catholic eras of France. That’s how I was personally introduced to questioning definitions.

 

[Logiko]

To be fair even in middle and high school I was told by history teachers that definitions are always made up by someone with a point of view. Always. They took certain examples from encyclopaedias through the ages and definition books by certain religious like in the Protestant vs Catholic eras of France. That’s how I was personally introduced to questioning definitions.

Indeed. Definition are never absolute, even the one I fight for. They are contextual, often used to move some interests. Mostly not completely aligned with reality or too simplistic.

I prefer the term "understanding" to definitions because it shows that understanding a subject require sometimes to crossread a lot of sources, analyse different pov, politicize definitions and understand their contextualities etc.

It's something I wish we could transmit. I don't understand how people are satisfied by the basic. When I heard about the twin towers conspiracies or the moon lunar hoax, my first reflex was to understand so I dive in, but I then wanted to understand why people were criticizing these theories and I learned critical thinking and politics. Then I wanted to understand why people were criticizing my values and fear, I entered leftism, then I wanted to understand why ""SJW"" were so conflictual on social networks, so I learned etc.. until now.

How can people here be satisfied with basic and easy responses? It's beyond me.

 

[Jiihad]

Isn’t it Argentina and not Venezuela ?

I was seein Venezuela but I kould be wrong, lemme look real quick

 

[Logiko]

 

[Uncle Van]

No. Van. That's not how these domination works. There are no "different types of racism" at least not like what you are trying to demonstrate. There are different WAYS to vulgarize racism/sexism.

The problem is that people - because of whiteness and sexism - got too attached to the basic definitions. It would be like getting too attached to the notion that an apple falls from the tree because of gravity while refusing to aknowledge the reality of space-time.

Racism, CAN'T be something else than a system of domination, exploitation and oppression. Simply because of it's structure and the way it works. What I'm explaining here is a social reality, well researched and already understood.

Tell me, where do you think Racism comes from?

Racism comes from people.

Definition are important or else you get guys that claim Fascism, Nazism, and slavery is leftism. What is the point of words having meaning if any rando can change the definition to fit their world view?

There is no such things as reactance, if you slide to the right, it's not because of us, it's because your interests (things that we denounce) are TO THE RIGHT. Stop deresponsabilizing yourself.

I already demonstrated this for you in your specific case and again, not me saying this, researchers are.

Not only this, but if this was true, people here would have become far-rightist because of me. And yet... we can clearly se a slide to the left for some. Strange, right?

How is it my fault that people lean more to the right because of the fuck ups of the left and liberals? Doing and saying dumb shit in a right wing dominated society doesnt seem very smart. This is a very generalized statement so please dont argue with specifics.[/QUOTE]

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

To be fair even in middle and high school I was told by history teachers that definitions are always made up by someone with a point of view. Always. They took certain examples from encyclopaedias through the ages and definition books by certain religious like in the Protestant vs Catholic eras of France. That’s how I was personally introduced to questioning definitions.

Okay, true that, but my overall point still stands. Logiko is just making up his own definitions to words to fit his agenda.

 

[Logiko]

Racism comes from people.

Definition are important or else you get guys that claim Fascism, Nazism, and slavery is leftism. What is the point of words having meaning if any rando can change the definition to fit their world view?

Racism comes from people AND the system. Racism is not some random beliefs, it's a system of thinking. And yes, definitions are important at the condition that they are contextualized and used within the material reality of the world.

I'm not changing anything. I'm extending the definition and rephrasing the vulgarized notions.

How is it my fault that people lean more to the right because of the fuck ups of the left and liberals?

Again, you ignored what I said. People don't lean more to the right because of leftists (liberal yeah, but for completely different reasons)

Doing and saying dumb shit in a right wing dominated society doesnt seem very smart.

It's only dumb if you don't understand what is being said. I found them dumb myself in the past. But I was not satisfied with my confusion and went beyond my biases to learn. It resulted in a humility in front of knowledge and - of course - a reject of my previous thinking. Thinking that I can see in pretty much everyone here.

Once again, you guyz completely ignore the fact that I was thinking before what you are currently thinking about me. So really, ask yourself, why am I not thinking like this no more?

(spoilers: it's not about reading more book or knowing more about precise historical facts)

Logiko is just making up his own definitions to words to fit his agenda.

 

[Reborn]

Push and pull factors work in tandem.

Push factors come from both liberals and the left.

Pull factors are because of the right.

 

[Logiko]

Push and pull factors work in tandem.

Push factors come from both liberals and the left.

Pull factors are because of the right.

Only in physics. Not in politics. In politics material interest are leading the attractions to ideologies.

This is why, currently, you are probably not understanding what I'm saying, but if I magically manage to push you into the body of a poor black, trans and handicaped person for 1 year, you will EASILY understand what I'm saying since you will live at the intersectionnality of pretty much all the domination system and I won't have to say a lot for you to lean toward a much more radical thinking than me.

Again, material conditions of existence create political attractions and political understanding.

 

[Reborn]

Only in physics. Not in politics. In politics material interest are leading the attractions to ideologies.

This is why, currently, you are probably not understanding what I'm saying, but if I magically manage to push you into the body of a poor black, trans and handicaped person for 1 year, you will EASILY understand what I'm saying since you will live at the intersectionnality of pretty much all the domination system and I won't have to say a lot for you to lean toward a much more radical thinking than me.

Again, material conditions of existence create political attractions and political understanding.

You need to stop questioning that people don't understand and only you do.

Push and pull factors aren't limited to physics as a domain. It works in politics as well because system is connected.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Only in physics. Not in politics. In politics material interest are leading the attractions to ideologies.

This is why, currently, you are probably not understanding what I'm saying, but if I magically manage to push you into the body of a poor black, trans and handicaped person for 1 year, you will EASILY understand what I'm saying since you will live at the intersectionnality of pretty much all the domination system and I won't have to say a lot for you to lean toward a much more radical thinking than me.

Again, material conditions of existence create political attractions and political understanding.

Multiple people who are marginalized in several ways (including myself) have also told you that everything you say is a load of horse shit though

 

[Logiko]

Multiple people who are marginalized in several ways (including myself) have also told you that everything you say is a load of horse shit though

You simply need time. You will see. It will come. When you rights start being squashed by capitalism.

You need to stop questioning that people don't understand and only you do.

Mate. There is a LOT of things that I don't understand. But what I'm telling you, is as close as a certitude as the fact that black holes exists. If you never take into account the fact that I KNOW your viewpoint because I went there.. you will not see why I'm constantly saying that you "don't understand".

I had your vision of the world.

I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking specifically about the things that I explaining and the things you people are saying in response . You are literally giving me the SAME ARGUMENTS that I was giving to what I we called "SJW" 8-9 years ago. And sometimes even worse:

> "black people can be racist"
> "don't invent your own definitions"
> "leftists are hurting their own cause"
> "The left is stupid"
> "Meritocratie is necessary"
> "People should get a permit to vote"
> "I believe that we should be able to fire people if necessary, free enterprise baby!"
> "The right VS left is stupid, there is good in both sides"
> "Centrists are the most rationnal people of all"
And so much more

I said ALL OF THAT myself back in the day. You guyz can't fool me. I'm already mad.



But you are thinking that I'm the mad one that shouldn't be taken seriousely.. because I challenge too much your preconception of the world and you don't like that. It makes you mad. Oh the irony.. because it's true.. I was you and now I'm mad.

But being mad does not prevent one from being clever. Welcome to the wonderland.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

You simply need time. You will see. It will come. When you rights start being squashed by capitalism.



Mate. There is a LOT of things that I don't understand. But what I'm telling you, is as close as a certitude as the fact that black holes exists. If you never take into account the fact that I KNOW your viewpoint because I went there.. you will not see why I'm constantly saying that you "don't understand".

I had your vision of the world.

I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking specifically about the things that I explaining and the things you people are saying in response . You are literally giving me the SAME ARGUMENTS that I was giving to what I we called "SJW" 8-9 years ago. And sometimes even worse:

> "black people can be racist"
> "don't invent your own definitions"
> "leftists are hurting their own cause"
> "The left is stupid"
> "Meritocratie is necessary"
> "People should get a permit to vote"
> "I believe that we should be able to fire people if necessary, free enterprise baby!"
> "The right VS left is stupid, there is good in both sides"
> "Centrists are the most rationnal people of all"
And so much more

I said ALL OF THAT myself back in the day. You guyz can't fool me. I'm already mad.



But you are thinking that I'm the mad one that shouldn't be taken seriousely.. because I challenge too much your preconception of the world and you don't like that. It makes you mad. Oh the irony.. because it's true.. I was you and now I'm mad.

But being mad does not prevent one from being clever. Welcome to the wonderland.

Black people literally can be racist though lol

 

[Jiihad]

You simply need time. You will see. It will come. When you rights start being squashed by capitalism

So tha man tells you he, along with many others in this very thread that you are wrong and are using their own experiences and you’re response is “no YALL don’t know yet. But I do”

Ion know if MZTS is a POC or black or sum, but if he is. This bout to be wildly hilarious lmao

 

[Uncle Van]

Racism comes from people AND the system. Racism is not some random beliefs, it's a system of thinking. And yes, definitions are important at the condition that they are contextualized and used within the material reality of the world.

Racism comes from the people. It is also the people that uses it as a tool of domination within their system. Once culture and law implement racism does it become systematic.

I'm not changing anything. I'm extending the definition and rephrasing the vulgarized notions.

You lose the plot when you extend tnem beyond their meaning and rephrase in ways that makes them inaccurate.

Again, you ignored what I said. People don't lean more to the right because of leftists (liberal yeah, but for completely different reasons)

They literally do but ok. Let's not pretend that left is somehow without flaw(dont take this is as "left the is sole problem!" again)

People use facts to tell lies and vice versa all the time. Hope bout not supplying them ammo.

Once again, you guyz completely ignore the fact that I was thinking before what you are currently thinking about me. So really, ask yourself, why am I not thinking like this no more?

(spoilers: it's not about reading more book or knowing more about precise historical facts)

You're using words incorrectly and people are pointing it out. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Uncle Van]

Ion know if MZTS is a POC or black or sum, but if he is. This bout to be wildly hilarious lmao

He is lol. Logiko tried the same with me too insinuating that black people screwed by cops can't become cops or not grow up hateful

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

So tha man tells you he, along with many others in this very thread that you are wrong and are using their own experiences and you’re response is “no YALL don’t know yet. But I do”

Ion know if MZTS is a POC or black or sum, but if he is. This bout to be wildly hilarious lmao

african american yup

 

[Jiihad]

african american yup

LMFAO!!! Had a fuxkin feelin

He is lol. Logiko tried the same with me too insinuating that black people screwed by cops can't become cops or not grow up hateful

Oh I knew you was a **** lmao, I jus ain’t know if you wanted ya business out there

Yea it’s not like black people Kant see tha klear issues with tha current policing and shit and want to join to try and change it, nah that kould never happen…..