Controversial General Political Discussion
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No. I'm giving you information. It's up to you to see if that's sounds familiar or not. Your constant reframing of racism, your material interest, your position and your eternal desire to show that leftist like me are "exagerating" has all the sign of what Fanon explained for colonialism, but also what antiracist and antiimperialist analyze as a fundamental constituant of the centrist and reactionnary votes in the world when it comes to racialized communities.
I'm not giving any conclusion, I'm telling you what I see. And thus, I give you contextual documentations. (also be careful with Fanon, the guy was a psychiatrist, is understanding of whiteness is important, but it also has its limits. Take the informations with care)
I'm very clear with my point. If you take me giving you informations as me trying to educate you, yeah, that's the point. If you are trying to twist that into some sort of white savior bullshit.. (because I know how you work with me) , what do you want me to say? Think what you want mate.
This information is fundamental to understand why racialized people defend the system in racist setting, if you feel belittled by that. I'm sorry, it's not the point. The point is to show you that there is a reason behind the defense of racism from racialized people. Whiteness is a status within whitesupremacy that is reserved to non-racialized people (the point). Whiteness is the reason why white people vote for Trump EVEN when they are directly impacted by his system. But it's also why people of color vote for him EVEN if he is racist.
Whiteness creates a status where white people will know through education that they will benefit from a better life than people of color. Charle W Mills calls this the "Racial contract". And the is tricky because within white supremacy, racialized people will seek this "whiteness" thus creating the condition of their own oppression and invisibilization but also exploitation.
Have you never heard the sentence: "Asian people are exemples in society"? Whiteness is exactly that, it create a push for racialized people to access to a form of respectability toward white people. An illusion that only last as long as they won't ask for more than what they are allowed.
If they ask for too much or if they raise concern, you will see white supremacy turn on them very quickly. So I'm sorry if you feel bad from me saying this, but this "respectability" in front of racism and the call out of the "bad apples" of other people of colors because "they are going too far" is something I've dealt with time and time again in this thread.
Again, sounds like dogma to me. Especially when the knowledge I give you comes from science and other scholars.. Imagine scientists saying to their peers "I don't care about your understanding, don't give your own definitions" lmao
Well you are not scientists, I know, but I believe you are still rationnal people. Capable of looking up for documentations and info.
Most leftist on the subject of assisted suicide are lost. Handicaped people know better.
And the solution is not suicide. At least not in most of the cases. The solution is a better life. We now know that assisted suicide is used by people who are not in dire physical condition, but people who are abandonned by society.
Assisted suicide under capitalism is eugenism. Pure and simple.
We - people with handicaped - are DIRECTLY targeted by these laws allowing assisted suicide. Simply because when you are in the situation I am, not only do you feel lost and abandonned by society most of the time, but you feel as a burden for your entire social circle. This is how I still feel today, I managed to lessen this feeling, it was a lot stronger before and it almost led me to dark thinkings.
In capitalism, handicaped people are directely targeted by the system and by people. It's invisible, but the entire society would prefer for us to be dead than to deal with whatever the fuck we need. The institutions are made to belittle us. The medical personal are not here to help us, but to help our recovery to go back to the production. And the production system is made in a way that will systematically exploit our disabilities.
The entire system is constructing the oppression, domination and exploitation of all psychiatrized and handicapped people and all citizen and instiution arestressing us to attain a status of legitimacy and dignity that THEY created for themselves.
Under capitalism and if we listen to people and systems: when you are an handicaped person, when you are psychiatrized, with a visible but mostly with invisible disabilities you are not a "productive member of society" and therefore you are worthless.
This, as we already know, pushes people to ask for suicide to stop suffering from their pain but mostly from the social cost that is inflicted on them by the entire ableist and eugenist system. So in such a world, assisted suicide is not a "solution of dignity", it's assisted murder that puts EVERYONE OF US in danger. And if you don't believe me. You have examples in this very thread of people depicting this exact ableist behavior against me.
There must be something done for people who are suffering, but the solution is not to put every one else in danger.
Natives in the US are still waiting for reparation and they land back btw
Dude, there are 3000 pages...
And again, racism and systemic racism are the same thing : A white supremacist system.
I'm not giving any conclusion, I'm telling you what I see. And thus, I give you contextual documentations. (also be careful with Fanon, the guy was a psychiatrist, is understanding of whiteness is important, but it also has its limits. Take the informations with care)
I'm very clear with my point. If you take me giving you informations as me trying to educate you, yeah, that's the point. If you are trying to twist that into some sort of white savior bullshit.. (because I know how you work with me) , what do you want me to say? Think what you want mate.
This information is fundamental to understand why racialized people defend the system in racist setting, if you feel belittled by that. I'm sorry, it's not the point. The point is to show you that there is a reason behind the defense of racism from racialized people. Whiteness is a status within whitesupremacy that is reserved to non-racialized people (the point). Whiteness is the reason why white people vote for Trump EVEN when they are directly impacted by his system. But it's also why people of color vote for him EVEN if he is racist.
Whiteness creates a status where white people will know through education that they will benefit from a better life than people of color. Charle W Mills calls this the "Racial contract". And the is tricky because within white supremacy, racialized people will seek this "whiteness" thus creating the condition of their own oppression and invisibilization but also exploitation.
Have you never heard the sentence: "Asian people are exemples in society"? Whiteness is exactly that, it create a push for racialized people to access to a form of respectability toward white people. An illusion that only last as long as they won't ask for more than what they are allowed.
If they ask for too much or if they raise concern, you will see white supremacy turn on them very quickly. So I'm sorry if you feel bad from me saying this, but this "respectability" in front of racism and the call out of the "bad apples" of other people of colors because "they are going too far" is something I've dealt with time and time again in this thread.
Again, sounds like dogma to me. Especially when the knowledge I give you comes from science and other scholars.. Imagine scientists saying to their peers "I don't care about your understanding, don't give your own definitions" lmao
Well you are not scientists, I know, but I believe you are still rationnal people. Capable of looking up for documentations and info.
Most leftist on the subject of assisted suicide are lost. Handicaped people know better.
And the solution is not suicide. At least not in most of the cases. The solution is a better life. We now know that assisted suicide is used by people who are not in dire physical condition, but people who are abandonned by society.
Assisted suicide under capitalism is eugenism. Pure and simple.
We - people with handicaped - are DIRECTLY targeted by these laws allowing assisted suicide. Simply because when you are in the situation I am, not only do you feel lost and abandonned by society most of the time, but you feel as a burden for your entire social circle. This is how I still feel today, I managed to lessen this feeling, it was a lot stronger before and it almost led me to dark thinkings.
In capitalism, handicaped people are directely targeted by the system and by people. It's invisible, but the entire society would prefer for us to be dead than to deal with whatever the fuck we need. The institutions are made to belittle us. The medical personal are not here to help us, but to help our recovery to go back to the production. And the production system is made in a way that will systematically exploit our disabilities.
The entire system is constructing the oppression, domination and exploitation of all psychiatrized and handicapped people and all citizen and instiution arestressing us to attain a status of legitimacy and dignity that THEY created for themselves.
Under capitalism and if we listen to people and systems: when you are an handicaped person, when you are psychiatrized, with a visible but mostly with invisible disabilities you are not a "productive member of society" and therefore you are worthless.
This, as we already know, pushes people to ask for suicide to stop suffering from their pain but mostly from the social cost that is inflicted on them by the entire ableist and eugenist system. So in such a world, assisted suicide is not a "solution of dignity", it's assisted murder that puts EVERYONE OF US in danger. And if you don't believe me. You have examples in this very thread of people depicting this exact ableist behavior against me.
There must be something done for people who are suffering, but the solution is not to put every one else in danger.
Natives in the US are still waiting for reparation and they land back btw
Dude, there are 3000 pages...
And again, racism and systemic racism are the same thing : A white supremacist system.
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It depends on many factors including the material condition of birth and parents. But clearly, the pre-birth analysis is a eugenistic window on eugenism.
Disabled people, even people with EXTREM disabilities are not less valuable or deserve less to be born because of their disability. This process is therefore completely locked within a eugenistic framing.
We need to give choices. But an enlightened one does not mean pushing parent with big warning sign to warn them about disabilities and thus rendering people in read life less legitimate. We are legitimate, even in handicap.
You talk out of your ass everyday mate. You have no lesson to give me about ass talking.
Disabled people, even people with EXTREM disabilities are not less valuable or deserve less to be born because of their disability. This process is therefore completely locked within a eugenistic framing.
We need to give choices. But an enlightened one does not mean pushing parent with big warning sign to warn them about disabilities and thus rendering people in read life less legitimate. We are legitimate, even in handicap.
You talk out of your ass everyday mate. You have no lesson to give me about ass talking.
I'm seriously in favour of assisted suicide for everyone.
People are free to dispose of their body as their wish.
Abortion exist because there is no person yet, so I fail to see the eugenism when no one is hurt. Or at least, it's a kind of eugenism that has nothing to do with the classical understanding of killing sick people to clean the race.
People are free to dispose of their body as their wish.
It depends on many factors including the material condition of birth and parents. But clearly, the pre-birth analysis is a eugenistic window on eugenism.
Disabled people, even people with EXTREM disabilities are not less valuable or deserve less to be born because of their disability. This process is therefore completely locked within a eugenistic framing.
We need to give choices. But an enlightened one does not mean pushing parent with big warning sign to warn them about disabilities and thus rendering people in read life less legitimate. We are legitimate, even in handicap.
You talk out of your ass everyday mate. You have no lesson to give me about ass talking.
Disabled people, even people with EXTREM disabilities are not less valuable or deserve less to be born because of their disability. This process is therefore completely locked within a eugenistic framing.
We need to give choices. But an enlightened one does not mean pushing parent with big warning sign to warn them about disabilities and thus rendering people in read life less legitimate. We are legitimate, even in handicap.
You talk out of your ass everyday mate. You have no lesson to give me about ass talking.
The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is [c]Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name [d]Apollyon.
In a peacefull society, I would agree. but we are under capitalism and we know that capitalism is fundamentally eugenistic. It pushes people out to the death. It's not just a fantazy, it's something we can already observe in Canada for ex. For the moment, Euthasia puts people in handicaped (not matter the visibility) in danger.
Eugenism is not necessarily the fact of killing sick people. Eugenism is the idea that a person, if disabled (either physically or mentally) loses its legitimacy to exist and be considered a fundamental member of society. Eugenism, just like racism is a form of hierarchization of society with valid people at the top.
So when we create policies to "check" the disabilities of newborn, we also create tools and political precedent to delegitimize the experience and the lives of disabled people like me. No matter how hard their life condition is. Eugenism works both ways, from birth, but also toward death.
In fact, Nazis were often using both:
"The eugenics policy of Nazi Germany, which is part of a larger program that can be described as a “eugenic-racist” is part of a set of laws, circulars and decrees.
- On the one hand, a "positive eugenics", called the improvement of the "race", intended to promote the fertility of humans considered superior (natalist policy, family support, nurseries, lebensborn ...)
- On the other hand a "negative eugenics", called racial defense, intended first (as early as 1933) to eliminate hereditary diseases, then any human group considered racially inferior or "unclean", or even socially undesirable." - wiki FR
Prebirth analysis are directly linked to eugenist ideas where children with disabilities are not to be seen as worthy of living. Not only that, but in our society, we know that the more the time plays, the more the circle of "unworthyness" increases. It's very similar to how fascism spreads. At the beginning it's done for the "dignity" of people who suffer (even if other people who suffer or are handicapped very harshly are saying "STOP" cf Elisa Rojas in France) even if that "dignity" is defined by valid people and no one is asking to disabled people how they want to define "dignity" and then it increases and take into account a lot more things like mental struggles or invisible disabilities like mine.
So for the moment. Euthanasia, even if it can ease the pain of some is an apocalyptic politic for disabled people as a whole. We demand better condition of living, not new ways to die. As for easing the pain of those who suffer the most, we know that there are solution.
But again. We must not threaten everyone just to save one.
Yep. That's what I said.
An accusation require an accusee. I targeted no one. So take your fantasy back home. If you want to search, go find it. I have nothing to prove to someone who does not like to be proven wrong.
Eugenism is not necessarily the fact of killing sick people. Eugenism is the idea that a person, if disabled (either physically or mentally) loses its legitimacy to exist and be considered a fundamental member of society. Eugenism, just like racism is a form of hierarchization of society with valid people at the top.
So when we create policies to "check" the disabilities of newborn, we also create tools and political precedent to delegitimize the experience and the lives of disabled people like me. No matter how hard their life condition is. Eugenism works both ways, from birth, but also toward death.
In fact, Nazis were often using both:
"The eugenics policy of Nazi Germany, which is part of a larger program that can be described as a “eugenic-racist” is part of a set of laws, circulars and decrees.
- On the one hand, a "positive eugenics", called the improvement of the "race", intended to promote the fertility of humans considered superior (natalist policy, family support, nurseries, lebensborn ...)
- On the other hand a "negative eugenics", called racial defense, intended first (as early as 1933) to eliminate hereditary diseases, then any human group considered racially inferior or "unclean", or even socially undesirable." - wiki FR
Prebirth analysis are directly linked to eugenist ideas where children with disabilities are not to be seen as worthy of living. Not only that, but in our society, we know that the more the time plays, the more the circle of "unworthyness" increases. It's very similar to how fascism spreads. At the beginning it's done for the "dignity" of people who suffer (even if other people who suffer or are handicapped very harshly are saying "STOP" cf Elisa Rojas in France) even if that "dignity" is defined by valid people and no one is asking to disabled people how they want to define "dignity" and then it increases and take into account a lot more things like mental struggles or invisible disabilities like mine.
So for the moment. Euthanasia, even if it can ease the pain of some is an apocalyptic politic for disabled people as a whole. We demand better condition of living, not new ways to die. As for easing the pain of those who suffer the most, we know that there are solution.
But again. We must not threaten everyone just to save one.
Yep. That's what I said.
An accusation require an accusee. I targeted no one. So take your fantasy back home. If you want to search, go find it. I have nothing to prove to someone who does not like to be proven wrong.
Interesting geopolitical move by Trump - he said MBS didn't believe he'd ever have to "kiss my ass, but he did. He thought I'd be another loser president"
I know Biden was memed for his incoherence but good Lord what is this
I know Biden was memed for his incoherence but good Lord what is this
This type of trash talk pretty much starts fights in Places like Saudi Arabia, only among certain subcultures is it seen as "banter", and even then it's never to someone at MBS's age
Trump pretty much embarrassed MBS heavily among his country by talking this way