Fanclub The V̶i̶n̶s̶m̶o̶k̶e̶ Sanji FC: The Prince of love
King’s portrayal prior to fighting Zoro was awful
He was coming from getting absolutely embarrassed in a 1v2 against a Marco who had already expended energy holding off the Ice Oni virus
King and Queen’s respect in the fandom was at an all time low. Let’s not rewrite history
You can’t bring up “sink or swim type tension” when the fans of the character involved in the matchup initially thought it was an underwhelming fight because King didn’t look particularly impressive. Where’s the sink or swim type tension there?
Did anyone think there was a slight chance of Zoro losing to King or Kaku? We’re all aware of the story we’re reading, no one thought Zoro or Sanji had a chance of losing to any of their arc opponents
Did you think there was even a slight chance Sanji would lose to Jabra? In One Piece?
He was coming from getting absolutely embarrassed in a 1v2 against a Marco who had already expended energy holding off the Ice Oni virus
King and Queen’s respect in the fandom was at an all time low. Let’s not rewrite history
You can’t bring up “sink or swim type tension” when the fans of the character involved in the matchup initially thought it was an underwhelming fight because King didn’t look particularly impressive. Where’s the sink or swim type tension there?
Did anyone think there was a slight chance of Zoro losing to King or Kaku? We’re all aware of the story we’re reading, no one thought Zoro or Sanji had a chance of losing to any of their arc opponents
Did you think there was even a slight chance Sanji would lose to Jabra? In One Piece?
Zoro vs Super Sommers feels very random, true.
The only connection they have is that, before one-shotting him, Luffy casually told the bum to remember Zoro name.
Moreover, this will be the 3° time in the same arc of Super Sommers getting washed (Gaban/Luffy/now Zoro).
There is no tension at all, Oda needed to buff Super Sommers and nerf Zoro with the
to make this shit somehow balanced.
The only connection they have is that, before one-shotting him, Luffy casually told the bum to remember Zoro name.
Moreover, this will be the 3° time in the same arc of Super Sommers getting washed (Gaban/Luffy/now Zoro).
There is no tension at all, Oda needed to buff Super Sommers and nerf Zoro with the
to make this shit somehow balanced.
I think Killingham and Super Sommers will only be plot devices for Zoro and Sanji to demonstrate their CoC after what they learned from Gaban (Sanji to awaken it as POL and Zoro to learn total control since he uses it recklessly)
It doesn't seem like the holy knights will be any really tough opponents.
It doesn't seem like the holy knights will be any really tough opponents.
I refuse to believe you don't understand my underlying argument and aren't just being willfully ignorant.
With King and Kaku there was a "standard" established prior to his battle with Zoro, be it Luffy v Kat, or Marco hyping up King and Queen as 1 bil bounty commanders etc. in addition to the lunarian theme King had going for him. Yes we know our protagonist won't lose but we even then, we knew they were going to have to bloody work for that win.
With Kaku, Oda quite literally had Luffy and Zoro get negg'd by Cp9 on Water 7, so again Oda established a standard and Zoro hard to surpass it.
What standard has Oda set with the Holy Knights so far? and what exactly is the bar that Zoro and Sanji have to surpass?
With King and Kaku there was a "standard" established prior to his battle with Zoro, be it Luffy v Kat, or Marco hyping up King and Queen as 1 bil bounty commanders etc. in addition to the lunarian theme King had going for him. Yes we know our protagonist won't lose but we even then, we knew they were going to have to bloody work for that win.
With Kaku, Oda quite literally had Luffy and Zoro get negg'd by Cp9 on Water 7, so again Oda established a standard and Zoro hard to surpass it.
What standard has Oda set with the Holy Knights so far? and what exactly is the bar that Zoro and Sanji have to surpass?
A standard has been established, you just don’t find it convincing enough which is fine. But don’t act like it doesn’t exist
Most of the things that you listed either barely serve as hype for them or were contextualized over the course of the fight
King being a Lunarian was meaningless until we truly understood just how durable he was. King and Queen being 1 billion berry bounty pirates meant nothing when Marco was manhandling them by himself
“Ah, two 1 billion berry guys are hard to deal with at the same time” as he’s throttling them, so threatening
Again, it’s hard to take points seriously regarding how “dangerous” the calamities felt when very few people considered them threats in the community
You were here so I know you saw it. “King the background, fodder to Katakuri, Zoro oneshots him, he couldn’t even handle Marco”
There was 0 hype for them until Oda expanded upon their kits, which he does for everyone when they get a full fight and not little clashes
And where was that with King? What portrayal did Oda maintain with him before their fight?
You’re working backwards instead of analyzing the way they were perceived as the chapters came out.
Most of the things that you listed either barely serve as hype for them or were contextualized over the course of the fight
King being a Lunarian was meaningless until we truly understood just how durable he was. King and Queen being 1 billion berry bounty pirates meant nothing when Marco was manhandling them by himself
“Ah, two 1 billion berry guys are hard to deal with at the same time” as he’s throttling them, so threatening
Again, it’s hard to take points seriously regarding how “dangerous” the calamities felt when very few people considered them threats in the community
You were here so I know you saw it. “King the background, fodder to Katakuri, Zoro oneshots him, he couldn’t even handle Marco”
There was 0 hype for them until Oda expanded upon their kits, which he does for everyone when they get a full fight and not little clashes
And where was that with King? What portrayal did Oda maintain with him before their fight?
You’re working backwards instead of analyzing the way they were perceived as the chapters came out.
You mean a wash for Zoro but not Sanji?
Zaza got a name drop this chapter so reckon that as opposed to Kilinbum will be the main dilenma of this Sanji v Kilinbum encounter.
Not sure what Oda's cooking up but he usually puts some thought into the story writing for Sanji fights/development so will be interesting to see how he writes this fight. I expect Zaza to be a used as a platform to allow really showcase whatever PU it is Oda has in store for Sanji this arc. Kilinbum will most likley get colateral diff'd as a result of whatever happens with Sanji v Zaza.
Zaza got a name drop this chapter so reckon that as opposed to Kilinbum will be the main dilenma of this Sanji v Kilinbum encounter.
Not sure what Oda's cooking up but he usually puts some thought into the story writing for Sanji fights/development so will be interesting to see how he writes this fight. I expect Zaza to be a used as a platform to allow really showcase whatever PU it is Oda has in store for Sanji this arc. Kilinbum will most likley get colateral diff'd as a result of whatever happens with Sanji v Zaza.
Yeah, i mean, Killingham should've been troublesome to deal with before the Omen buff, or at least he should've been left untouched so his strength would still be a mystery. Sanji disrespected him way too much
If the Omen buff makes Sanji go from a neg diff to a mid/high diff it will feel pretty odd.. Unless Zaza is that strong, or if Killingham summons another MMA using Sanji's fears
But what is really going to stand out here is: how to kill them HKs. That would add more difficulty to Zoro and Sanji's fight, because even if they dominate S and K, them still be coming back (due to Omen perhaps) will be the real problem. And when the wings manage to kill S and K it will not only weaken Imu but will also hype them as HK slayers, just like Loki, added with the fact they were boosted by Omen
I would be pretty satisfied with that, would be a fitting and impactful accomplishment for the wings
If the Omen buff makes Sanji go from a neg diff to a mid/high diff it will feel pretty odd.. Unless Zaza is that strong, or if Killingham summons another MMA using Sanji's fears
But what is really going to stand out here is: how to kill them HKs. That would add more difficulty to Zoro and Sanji's fight, because even if they dominate S and K, them still be coming back (due to Omen perhaps) will be the real problem. And when the wings manage to kill S and K it will not only weaken Imu but will also hype them as HK slayers, just like Loki, added with the fact they were boosted by Omen
I would be pretty satisfied with that, would be a fitting and impactful accomplishment for the wings
Except King and Queen weren’t really viewed as threats at the time either. Thats the argument I’m trying to make
A major issue that people had with Wano (especially at the time) was that it felt like there was no tension throughout the whole war. People are trying to change the narrative now but that’s not how people felt back then
Nobody was seriously worried about King and Queen. We were told they were strong but nothing they had shown us up until that point made them feel unbeatable
Sanji sent Queen spinning and embarrassed Perospero all in one kick. He was not viewed as a threat initially
A major issue that people had with Wano (especially at the time) was that it felt like there was no tension throughout the whole war. People are trying to change the narrative now but that’s not how people felt back then
Nobody was seriously worried about King and Queen. We were told they were strong but nothing they had shown us up until that point made them feel unbeatable
Sanji sent Queen spinning and embarrassed Perospero all in one kick. He was not viewed as a threat initially
yeah
To be honest everything about Zoro feels weird this arc, i already said this to @Welkin, but oda didnt write a thematically good villain for him since pre-ts imo
I get where you're coming from, and my initial guess was that Zaza was going to be used for that + exploiting Sanji's woman weakness
But at this point i feel like it will not factor at all and more for the other Strawhats/rest of elbaf to fight, let's see where it leads
To be honest everything about Zoro feels weird this arc, i already said this to @Welkin, but oda didnt write a thematically good villain for him since pre-ts imo
I get where you're coming from, and my initial guess was that Zaza was going to be used for that + exploiting Sanji's woman weakness
But at this point i feel like it will not factor at all and more for the other Strawhats/rest of elbaf to fight, let's see where it leads
I think Oda is operating differently here because he isn’t going to give Luffy a victory against Imu. It’s not a traditional war arc like Wano or EL. Even back on FI, the M3 fought underwhelming opponents because the focus was simply on showcasing their progress.
Oda might rush through these encounters, accomplish his goal of giving the M3 the power to counter regeneration, and then be done with it. That’s also unique, we’ve never had the M3 all acquire the same ability in the same arc.
Their next true major battles, on the level of Wano or EL, will probably be against the BBPs. That’s where they’ll truly be tested as combatants and require a real level-up. Right now, they just need a highly specific ability that can counter a highly specific hax power. But I don't disagree with the general sentiment.
Oda might rush through these encounters, accomplish his goal of giving the M3 the power to counter regeneration, and then be done with it. That’s also unique, we’ve never had the M3 all acquire the same ability in the same arc.
Their next true major battles, on the level of Wano or EL, will probably be against the BBPs. That’s where they’ll truly be tested as combatants and require a real level-up. Right now, they just need a highly specific ability that can counter a highly specific hax power. But I don't disagree with the general sentiment.
Yeah, i mean, Killingham should've been troublesome to deal with before the Omen buff, or at least he should've been left untouched so his strength would still be a mystery. Sanji disrespected him way too much
If the Omen buff makes Sanji go from a neg diff to a mid/high diff it will feel pretty odd.. Unless Zaza is that strong, or if Killingham summons another MMA using Sanji's fears
But what is really going to stand out here is: how to kill them HKs. That would add more difficulty to Zoro and Sanji's fight, because even if they dominate S and K, them still be coming back (due to Omen perhaps) will be the real problem. And when the wings manage to kill S and K it will not only weaken Imu but will also hype them as HK slayers, just like Loki, added with the fact they were boosted by Omen
I would be pretty satisfied with that, would be a fitting and impactful accomplishment for the wings
If the Omen buff makes Sanji go from a neg diff to a mid/high diff it will feel pretty odd.. Unless Zaza is that strong, or if Killingham summons another MMA using Sanji's fears
But what is really going to stand out here is: how to kill them HKs. That would add more difficulty to Zoro and Sanji's fight, because even if they dominate S and K, them still be coming back (due to Omen perhaps) will be the real problem. And when the wings manage to kill S and K it will not only weaken Imu but will also hype them as HK slayers, just like Loki, added with the fact they were boosted by Omen
I would be pretty satisfied with that, would be a fitting and impactful accomplishment for the wings
I too believe Zoro and Sanji defeating them won't be anything exceptional; what will be challenging here is generating enough power to defeat them once and for all.
Doing so will put Zoro and Sanji on the same level as Gaban and Rayleigh.
The next arc is Lodestar, I think the Straw Hats should already be a PK crew in that arc