General & Others Did roof piece help or hurt Zoro and expectations of him

[Blazing Lionv2.5]

Y'all are underestimating king. Dude is easily stronger than Kaidou

 

[Blazing Lionv2.5]

Vegeta was not a deuteragonist in Z. The defeat of Freeza was not contingent upon Vegeta, as he died before the last two phases. He was not critical to the defeat of Cell because his last minute distraction just cancelled out the fact that he caused Gohan's injury. He was a Cell Jr victim. He was instrumental in helping to release Boo, but it was revealed that Goku could have just beaten him. Ultimate Gohan upstaged him in power, so did Gotenks. In the final phase, he shared his spotlight with Boo and Satan in assisting Goku.

Vegeta caused as many problems as he solved, whereas Zoro has been helping Luffy from the very first volume.

Are you ready for me to come with scans or what

Bro the best deuteragonist is Sasuke. Dude owns his own story

 

[SkySanji]

Vegeta was not a deuteragonist in Z. The defeat of Freeza was not contingent upon Vegeta, as he died before the last two phases. He was not critical to the defeat of Cell because his last minute distraction just cancelled out the fact that he cause Gohan's injury. He was a Cell Jr victim. He was instrumental in helping to release Boo, but it was revealed that Goku could have just beaten him. Ultimate Gohan upstaged him in power, so did Gotenks. In the final phase, he shared his spotlight with Boo and Satan in assisting Goku.

Vegeta caused as many problems as he solved, whereas Zoro has been helping Luffy from the very first volume.

Are you ready for me to come with scans or what

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Vegeta was not a deuteragonist in Z. The defeat of Freeza was not contingent upon Vegeta, as he died before the last two phases. He was not critical to the defeat of Cell because his last minute distraction just cancelled out the fact that he cause Gohan's injury. He was a Cell Jr victim. He was instrumental in helping to release Boo, but it was revealed that Goku could have just beaten him. Ultimate Gohan upstaged him in power, so did Gotenks. In the final phase, he shared his spotlight with Boo and Satan in assisting Goku.

Vegeta caused as many problems as he solved, whereas Zoro has been helping Luffy from the very first volume.

Are you ready for me to come with scans or what

Ninety percent of Naruto is Sasukes causing problems. Is he not the deuteragonist anymore?

 

[Fn Lucci]

Comparing Zoro to Vegeta is extremely disrespectful to Vegeta.

Are you going to stand on business and say how, or end up like your boy @SkySanji

Spoiler

How these boys respond to yes or no questions lmao

 

[Fn Lucci]

Ninety percent of Naruto is Sasukes causing problems. Is he not the deuteragonist anymore?

I never said that the deuteragonist is defined by who does or doesn't cause problems. I am comparing the importance of each character, and mentioning that this trait actually makes him a lesser ally than Zoro, to boot.

I'm not interested in Naruto, frankly. I dropped it like a month into Shippuden. Whenever they first had Sakura just punching a bunch of shit. But from what I have read and heard, much of the plot relies on Naruto's relationship with Sasuke, and the world's relationship with the Uchiha clan. Not sure why this would be brought up unless someone misunderstood the first of my explanation here, that Zoro is a deuteragonist and Vegeta isn't because of his shitty attitude.

 

[soupongo]

Vegeta was the reason Android 17 and 18 were released. Vegeta was also the reason cell became perfect.

Gohan genuinely did nothing that arc until the final showdown.

How is ultimately solving a problem less narratively relevant to failing to solve it early on? And like half of Dragon ball is characters doing dumb shit letting the villains grow in strength

 

[Blazing Lionv2.5]

I never said that the deuteragonist is defined by who does or doesn't cause problems. I am comparing the importance of each character, and mentioning that this trait actually makes him a lesser ally than Zoro, to boot.

I'm not interested in Naruto, frankly. I dropped it like a month into Shippuden. Whenever they first had Sakura just punching a bunch of shit. But from what I have read and heard, much of the plot relies on Naruto's relationship with Sasuke, and the world's relationship with the Uchiha clan. Not sure why this would be brought up unless someone misunderstood the first of my explanation here, that Zoro is a deuteragonist and Vegeta isn't because of his shitty attitude.

Are you dumb?

 

[Blazing Lionv2.5]

Zoro is literally luffy's subordinate while Sasuke isn't

 

[ZenZu]

Are you going to stand on business and say how, or end up like your boy @SkySanji

Spoiler

Yes very easily. Zoro is a lackey with nothing to offer the world of One Piece than simply being an extension of his owner Luffy. Zoro is an inconsequential character in the greater One Piece world.

It is downright disrespectful to compare him to Vegeta who is a legit rival to Goku and a man of his own agency.

Zoro is just Luffy's dog. Luffy says bark, Zoro will ask how loud.

 

[SkySanji]

 

[Sir Yasheen]

How is ultimately solving a problem less narratively relevant to failing to solve it early on? And like half of Dragon ball is characters doing dumb shit letting the villains grow in strength

Because if you’re pointless for 99% of an arc it doesn’t matter what you do that last 1 percent. Or do you also think Mr. Satan is the tritagonist of DBZ cause he solved the Buu problem

 

[soupongo]

Because if you’re pointless for 99% of an arc it doesn’t matter what you do that last 1 percent. Or do you also think Mr. Satan is the tritagonist of DBZ cause he solved the Buu problem

Gohan being pointless for 99 percent of the arc is a strawman argument though. He's just not at the front of it, but not Mr Satan tier

And no, the Mr Satan thing is a technicality, like Vegeta being the reason the android shit escalates to the extent that it does, meanwhile the entire Cell Saga leads up to Gohan beating cell as it's climax

 

[SkySanji]

Gohan being pointless for 99 percent of the arc is a strawman argument though. He's just not at the front of it, but not Mr Satan tier

And no, the Mr Satan thing is a technicality, like Vegeta being the reason the android shit escalates to the extent that it does, meanwhile the entire Cell Saga leads up to Gohan beating cell as it's climax

The Cell Saga is specifically where Toriyama tried to hand off the protagonist role to Gohan though, so using that as an example is stupid.

 

[soupongo]

The Cell Saga is specifically where Toriyama tried to hand off the protagonist role to Gohan though, so using that as an example is stupid.

Doesn't the fact that Toriyama was trying to build up Gohan as the new MC and focus of the story kind of inherently hurt the argument that Vegeta was the clear deuteragonist pre Buu Saga though?

Obviously once the manga ended, Vegeta clearly took the role in Super, GT, movies etc, but I mean in the Og manga run.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Yes very easily. Zoro is a lackey with nothing to offer the world of One Piece than simply being an extension of his owner Luffy. Zoro is an inconsequential character in the greater One Piece world.

In order to believe that Luffy "owns" anyone, you have to undo your entire understanding of his character and his dynamic with friends

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

It is downright disrespectful to compare him to Vegeta who is a legit rival to Goku and a man of his own agency.

Goku picked Gohan to stop Cell and Gotenks to stop Boo.

Spoiler

Vegeta's entire story arc culminated into this moment. Zoro has put PK above his own dream, but concedes that the sacrifice is borne of friendship. You can laugh at that or whatever, I'm not triggered. But this is the biggest possible misunderstanding of the story in order to die on a cold hill in the middle of nowhere.

 

[ZenZu]

In order to believe that Luffy "owns" anyone, you have to undo your entire understanding of his character and his dynamic with friends

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Goku picked Gohan to stop Cell and Gotenks to stop Boo.

Spoiler

Vegeta's entire story arc culminated into this moment. Zoro has put PK above his own dream, but concedes that the sacrifice is borne of friendship. You can laugh at that or whatever, I'm not triggered. But this is the biggest possible misunderstanding of the story in order to die on a cold hill in the middle of nowhere.

All of this is cute but it doesn't change the fact that Zoro has no impact on the verse outside of being Luffy's lackey. His character has zero agency of its own.

The closest thing to a legit deuteragonist One Piece has had was Law in post timeskip. His actions actually had an impact on the world.

Zoro is indistinguishable from Sanji. Both serve the same purpose as Luffy's top lackeys. Acting like Zoro is anything more than that is laughable. Zoro has zero separation from Sanji. None.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Zoro has zero separation from Sanji. None.

They're physically and mentally separate as they're different characters. Physical: if Sanji gets CoC, then it will have come almost 200 chapters after Zoro was confirmed. Mental: Zoro hasn't even addressed Sanji by name yet lol, the respect is mutual but not equal

The Sanji and Zoro dynamic is built on them being very alike, but only in the ways where they're not cat and dog different.

But hey, Luffy "owns" people right. If you think Imu and Luffy are similar then I guess those nuances tend to escape you.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

All of this is cute but it doesn't change the fact that Zoro has no impact on the verse outside of being Luffy's lackey. His character has zero agency of its own.

The closest thing to a legit deuteragonist One Piece has had was Law in post timeskip. His actions actually had an impact on the world.

Zoro is indistinguishable from Sanji. Both serve the same purpose as Luffy's top lackeys. Acting like Zoro is anything more than that is laughable. Zoro has zero separation from Sanji. None.

Why did Luffy listen to him about Ussop and not attacking Holy land. I thought you said he his dog why did Luffy sit down like a dog after Zoro yelled at him about Ussop apologizing.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

They're physically and mentally separate as they're different characters. Physical: if Sanji gets CoC, then it will have come almost 200 chapters after Zoro was confirmed. Mental: Zoro hasn't even addressed Sanji by name yet lol, the respect is mutual but not equal

The Sanji and Zoro dynamic is built on them being very alike, but only in the ways where they're not cat and dog different.

But hey, Luffy "owns" people right. If you think Imu and Luffy are similar then I guess those nuances tend to escape you.

Here is Luffy the owner forcing Zoro to get Ussop without him having to apologize.
You see how Zoro is sweating and he sits on the floor after Luffy big speech.