General & Others Haki vs sword vs science

[Cruxroux]

Enma let’s the user unleash more haki then they would be able to normally on their own

“Gotta unleash this enma a bit more”

“I don’t have much time…. If this drags on the sword will suck the life from me”
Zoro has king of hell mode because of enma lol

Zoro deadass unlocked conqueror through using enma

He claims to want to be king of hell directly because of enma is also known as the king of hell

This batshit retarded.

Where was Oden adcoc for 30+ Years?
Why did bro only unlocked it after Voyage wirh rogers.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

This batshit retarded.

Where was Oden adcoc for 30+ Years?
Why did bro only unlocked it after Voyage wirh rogers.

Oden's Armanmenet Haki was so massively powerful that he could feed Enma the Haki it craved without it having to tap into his CoC reserves to satiate its hunger. Kaido directly states that Oden almost killed him with just his Ryou. Armanment Haki. Not Supreme King's. This is the reason Kaido glazes him and said there will never be a Samurai like him again.

Zoro is not Oden. His Ryou is nowhere near Oden's. Enma had to draw out his Supreme King's Haki, a completely different color, to get what it wanted. What Albino said isn't retarded. Zoro would never have unlocked CoC in that fight without Enma. He literally would have died against King. Zoro confirms in Elbaf he had no idea he even had CoC. He currently cannot tap into it without using Enma, hence Gaban telling him to fix that.

 

[Albino 👑]

1. You already admitted Enma doesn't give people CoC. So the extreme situation gave him it. I agree you can say Enma added to the extreme situation cause it was trying to kill suck out his haki similar to how Katakuri sister made the situation worse for Luffy by attack luffy in secret at same time a 1st commander is fighting him. Zoro tamed Enma and made it his bitch and won the fight. But thats like saying King gave Zoro CoC and Katakuri and his sister gave Luffy FS. Thats dumb.

Sanji is going to get it cause his situation is he injured and he on a timelimit where people can due so he has to do it. Just like Zoro had to tame Enma.

You can remove Enma and Zoro would still do it. Let's say Chopper was going to die if he didn't do it in time. The situation gets extreme again even if he had Shisui. He would be worried about Chopper and fighting 1st commander.

Zoro and Sanji are not unlocking conquerors just due to being in though battle
They’re unlocking it due to them becoming kings. In Zoro’s case it was directly tied to enma and him deciding to become the king of hell. In Sanji’s case it will likely tie back to him fully accepting himself even the germa side of himself

Again no Zoro would not become the king of hell without king of hell enma

Also strengthening your haki through training is not the same thing at all as unlocking conquerors. Luffy was deadass training his observation haki in his fight with katakuri. Not the same thing as all as unlocking conquerors

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Also strengthening your haki through training is not the same thing at all as unlocking conquerors. Luffy was deadass training his observation haki in his fight with katakuri. Not the same thing as all as unlocking conquerors

Yep. Y'all need to remember that nothing CoC related can be strengthened or unlocked through training. It's the only color of the three that functions like this.

Supreme King's is tied to ambition and willpower.

Luffy didn't even need to train for CoC coating. The only reason he didnt use it sooner was due to not knowing you could coat your body in it like armanment haki. (Pretty weird for Rayleigh not to drop that info on Luffy during his training, but he tells him about future sight?)

 

[Cruxroux]

Oden's Armanmenet Haki was so massively powerful that he could feed Enma the Haki it craved without it having to tap into his CoC reserves to satiate its hunger. Kaido directly states that Oden almost killed him with just his Ryou. Armanment Haki. Not Supreme King's. This is the reason Kaido glazes him and said there will never be a Samurai like him again.

Wrong
- Enma does not suck out Conqueror HAKI, only Ryou. Stated multiple times.
- Where is the statement for kaidou? I tried looking for it couldn't find it. Where Oden 'Ryou' specifically almost beat Kaidou.
- Kaidou glazes him because he is that level strong.

Oden used Conqueror Coating with Paradise Totsuka that should be common sense at this point.

Zoro is not Oden. His Ryou is nowhere near Oden's.

You're confusing yourself with How strong and Amount of Haki involved.
Oden had Huge Haki reserves unlike Zoro. Enma is known suck in Ryou, and deal devastating blows. Not Make your Haki stronger.
Zoro replicated the very feat Oden did with Just ryou. Meanwhile Oden used Advanced conqueror. And difference was already visible, Oden nearly one tapped Kaidou, whereas Zoro only left a mark and dealt damage.

Enma had to draw out his Supreme King's Haki, a completely different color, to get what it wanted. What Albino said isn't retarded. Zoro would never have unlocked CoC in that fight without Enma.

Again wrong.
Read the entirety of Zoro vs King. Conqueror came out as a result of zoro going all out.
Zoro restricts his Haki/Ryou a lot. Even during Rooftop when he used Onigiri, he said he needed to let Enma suck more Ryou and deal blows.
Enma does not give people Conqueror, Zoro having Innate conqueror came out when Zoro went All out post time skip.
Enma started to suck in more and more Ryou, Zoro gave it access to all of his Haki.
And his innate conqueror came out as a result of it. Enma was a catalyst but saying Zoro would have never unlocked conqueror without enma is retarded. So yes what Albino said is retarded. Zoro if not in wano, would have eventually unlocked conqueror Haki if ever decides to stop holding back like he did most of the time skip.

Zoro confirms in Elbaf he had no idea he even had CoC. He currently cannot tap into it without using Enma, hence Gaban telling him to fix that.

Again wrong, he is using conqueror with all his blades not just Enma.
Bird dance was literally just Sandai and Conqueror coated.
It didn't even have the KoH nomenclature.

What does Zoro not knowing about it has to do anything with Enma? When he has already used conqueror coating withour enma.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

why are we acting like luffy isnt waltzing around with a messiah fruit

 

[Cruxroux]

why are we acting like luffy isnt waltzing around with a messiah fruit

Agenda

 

[Albino 👑]

why are we acting like luffy isnt waltzing around with a messiah fruit

Because the thread is about haki related power ups they got post time skip. Luffy’s directly just strengthened his haki achieving advanced forms. That’s not the same with Zoro and Sanji

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Because the thread is about haki related power ups they got post time skip. Luffy’s directly just strengthened his haki achieving advanced forms. That’s not the same with Zoro and Sanji

his biggest power boost came from his df though

zoro's only powerup was unlocking conquerors
and sanji gained a sturdier body but is getting the equivalent of zoro's power boost on top of that.


If anything the latter two seem more on track to be haki native fighters than he will ever be
mf bends reality .

 

[Albino 👑]

his biggest power boost came from his df though

zoro's only powerup was unlocking conquerors
and sanji gained a sturdier body but is getting the equivalent of zoro's power boost on top of that.


If anything the latter two seem more on track to be haki native fighters than he will ever be
mf bends reality .

G5 is his biggest power up but again the thread is about haki

Luffy advanced his observation, armament, and conquerors

Zoro’s power up was enma which allows him to exude more armament than he would be capable of on his own. Which led to king of hell mode (which also requires enma) and him unlocking conquerors while claiming to want to be the king of hell
Sanji just combines his armament and germa exoskeleton to achieve ifrit jambe. Now he’s likely going to unlock conquerors when he fully accepts his germa side as a part of him

If you want to talk about Luffy combing his devil fruit with his haki to strengthen it the best comparison would be g4. Where his haki somehow keeps Luffy’s rubbery properties

I even made a thread a few years ago comparing gear 4 to king of hell and Ifrit

Luffy’s g4 basically being his awakening before his true awakening is a pretty basic take but imo it has an even more interesting connection with zoro and sanji

Off the bat armament haki is necessary for each form. So without haki theyd be incapable of using it

1. Luffy hardens his body while being able to keep its rubber properties
2. Zoro unleashes extra powerful armament infused slashes
3. Sanji stacks his armament and exoskeleton durability to create even hotter flames

So basically by combining their armament with them further mastering their devil fruit, meito blades, and enhanced dna they were able to create new forms

It’d be interesting if there next step similar to luffy post timeskip end up being to further advance their observation haki
Shiryu and laffitte lowkey potentially being the perfect characters for that. Maybe relating to see no evil hear no evil

If the pattern continues and they next further develop their armament. Zoro making a black blade and sanji maybe black flames or at least using hardening lol. Against who specifically they’ll advance their armament to face? Idk
Zoro maybe mihawk and sanji idk idk Kuzan? Beckman? Someone else?

Next being conquerors again only if it becomes a pattern. Unpopular opinion but I can see Sanji getting conquerors sooner rather than later even this arc. If he eventually is able to infuse it with his attacks idk
Maybe at this point they will show off that they can split the sky while in clashes idk. Not really a specific power up but could

As for their awakening aka gear 5th equivalent
For Zoro maybe fully mastering asura or a stronger form he can actually use for a long period of time. Possibly being through him getting shodai. Basically zoro mastering the peak of “cursed” blades like luffy mastered the peak of his fruit
For Sanji maybe a perfected raid suit. Bring it back to all the science and lineage factor stuff Sanji has going on. This suit actually being made out of love for him and being able to boost all his abilities

I only really focused on zoro and sanji but there’s definitely a chance Luffy can advance his haki’s again even further. His is just harder to guess

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Wrong
- Enma does not suck out Conqueror HAKI, only Ryou. Stated multiple times.

Clearly that's not the case. You can't use previous believed statements by the characters when what I said happened literally on the page.

Enma sucking out his Conquerors Haki is the very foundation of what makes up King of Hell.

Enma drew out Zoro's Ryou twice. Once when he first got the sword pre Onishigama and the again while fighting King and both times resulted in his arm sucked dry to a husk. This is why Zoro never fully unleashed it. It was only when the sword used his Supreme King's Haki those side effects subsided.

- Where is the statement for kaidou? I tried looking for it couldn't find it. Where Oden 'Ryou' specifically almost beat Kaidou.

Look for it when the scabbards peirce his scales and he battles with them.

The scabbards have a flashback when Oden straight up teaches them how to use the move that he almost killed Kaido with. Paradise Totsuka.

They had the Ryou to cut kaido. Their Haki wasnt strong enough to kill like like Oden's could.

Kaidou glazes him because he is that level strong.

I've been saying this.

Oden used Conqueror Coating with Paradise Totsuka that should be common sense at this point.

No he did not. Kaido spent the entire encounter with them confused on how they had Oden's Ryou, tested to see if they could kill him and then deduced that Oden's Ryou was just in a league of it's own because their cuts were too shallow despite using the same Haki as him.

Oden bar for bar taught them his technique and how to manipulate their Ryou to pull it off. It's all on panel. You can't use the black sparks as an indication of CoC in his case because the scabbards replicated it completely:

You're confusing yourself with How strong and Amount of Haki involved.
Oden had Huge Haki reserves unlike Zoro. Enma is known suck in Ryou, and deal devastating blows. Not Make your Haki stronger.

I'm not confused at all because I never said Enma makes your haki stronger. I said Zoro doesn't have the Haki reserves like Oden for Enma to be satiated with just his Ryou. It drew out his Supreme King's as well.

It drawing out Zoro's Supreme King's Haki and using it in conjuction with his Ryou isn't the sword "making his haki stronger". Conquerors Haki is a seperate well of power to draw from and Armanment Haki is it's own well of power.

Zoro's Armanment wasnt enough. Enma decided to use both. Zoro going all out, is him giving Enma to go to use he Haki as it pleases.

We know it was the one that brought it out, because Zoro is confirmed in Elbaf to not only know he had CoC, but has zero control over it whatsoever. Whenever Enma used just his armanment this happened:

His body turns into a husk. It tapped into a seperate well of power to not kill Zoro.

Again wrong, he is using conqueror with all his blades not just Enma.
Bird dance was literally just Sandai and Conqueror coated.
It didn't even have the KoH nomenclature.

What does Zoro not knowing about it has to do anything with Enma? When he has already used conqueror coating withour enma.

The reason he's able to use Conquerors on all of his blades is because of Enma. He wouldnt have been able to use CoC without Enma. Enma sucking out his Haki is how he achieved CoC coating. That's the point. You're blatantly ignoring it. You know exactly what we mean and you're being purposely obtuse.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

What you are saying might be true but it's also true they are going to be at minimum masters of each form of haki. The archetype is Shanks, he can use future sight (advanced CoO) and obviously advanced CoC. and it's generally true to anyone using advanced CoC can already use advanced CoA since the mechanics in terms of application is similar (flexible flow and coating). We also have Roger Ray and Gaban who all basically use haki the same way. This will be the floor for the monster trio on top of whatever other gifts they may have.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Fellas. Every single top tier with Supreme King's intionally taps into that power to use coating. Which means, if Zoro is fully unleashing Enma and doesn't know he has Supreme King's, then he isn't the one bringing out that power because he wants to.

Enma is doing it for him. This is precisely the case because Zoro doesn't know how to access that power on his own.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Zoro and Sanji are not unlocking conquerors just due to being in though battle
They’re unlocking it due to them becoming kings. In Zoro’s case it was directly tied to enma and him deciding to become the king of hell. In Sanji’s case it will likely tie back to him fully accepting himself even the germa side of himself

Again no Zoro would not become the king of hell without king of hell enma

Also strengthening your haki through training is not the same thing at all as unlocking conquerors. Luffy was deadass training his observation haki in his fight with katakuri. Not the same thing as all as unlocking conquerors

1. They are not unlocking it because they in a tough battle, but the story says thats how you get a haki bloom. This is what you agreed top. You said Enma can't give people CoC and that Tough battle/situation gives it to you. Why do you keep contradicting yourself?

2. What are you talking about in the Luffy situation. He was in a extreme situation. He literally was getting his ass beat and getting snuck by another BM pirate. Lol Rayleigh literally said training wouldn't get him the big advancement he needed to use it in battle against tough opponent. So idk what uou talking about. You need a tough situation to do it

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

G5 is his biggest power up but again the thread is about haki

Luffy advanced his observation, armament, and conquerors

Zoro’s power up was enma which allows him to exude more armament than he would be capable of on his own. Which led to king of hell mode (which also requires enma) and him unlocking conquerors while claiming to want to be the king of hell
Sanji just combines his armament and germa exoskeleton to achieve ifrit jambe. Now he’s likely going to unlock conquerors when he fully accepts his germa side as a part of him

If you want to talk about Luffy combing his devil fruit with his haki to strengthen it the best comparison would be g4. Where his haki somehow keeps Luffy’s rubbery properties

I even made a thread a few years ago comparing gear 4 to king of hell and Ifrit

What your saying literally makes no sense. Being a Germa doesn't make you a Conqueror. You are literally just saying random things

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Clearly that's not the case. You can't use previous believed statements by the characters when what I said happened literally on the page.

Enma sucking out his Conquerors Haki is the very foundation of what makes up King of Hell.

Enma drew out Zoro's Ryou twice. Once when he first got the sword pre Onishigama and the again while fighting King and both times resulted in his arm sucked dry to a husk. This is why Zoro never fully unleashed it. It was only when the sword used his Supreme King's Haki those side effects subsided.



Look for it when the scabbards peirce his scales and he battles with them.

The scabbards have a flashback when Oden straight up teaches them how to use the move that he almost killed Kaido with. Paradise Totsuka.

They had the Ryou to cut kaido. Their Haki wasnt strong enough to kill like like Oden's could.

I've been saying this.



No he did not. Kaido spent the entire encounter with them confused on how they had Oden's Ryou, tested to see if they could kill him and then deduced that Oden's Ryou was just in a league of it's own because their cuts were too shallow despite using the same Haki as him.

Oden bar for bar taught them his technique and how to manipulate their Ryou to pull it off. It's all on panel. You can't use the black sparks as an indication of CoC in his case because the scabbards replicated it completely:

I'm not confused at all because I never said Enma makes your haki stronger. I said Zoro doesn't have the Haki reserves like Oden for Enma to be satiated with just his Ryou. It drew out his Supreme King's as well.

It drawing out Zoro's Supreme King's Haki and using it in conjuction with his Ryou isn't the sword "making his haki stronger". Conquerors Haki is a seperate well of power to draw from and Armanment Haki is it's own well of power.

Zoro's Armanment wasnt enough. Enma decided to use both. Zoro going all out, is him giving Enma to go to use he Haki as it pleases.

We know it was the one that brought it out, because Zoro is confirmed in Elbaf to not only know he had CoC, but has zero control over it whatsoever. Whenever Enma used just his armanment this happened:

His body turns into a husk. It tapped into a seperate well of power to not kill Zoro.



The reason he's able to use Conquerors on all of his blades is because of Enma. He wouldnt have been able to use CoC without Enma. Enma sucking out his Haki is how he achieved CoC coating. That's the point. You're blatantly ignoring it. You know exactly what we mean and you're being purposely obtuse.

Then why didn't Zoro get CoC in this scene and why didn't Scopper say anything about Enma

 

[Albino 👑]

1. They are not unlocking it because they in a tough battle, but the story says thats how you get a haki bloom. This is what you agreed top. You said Enma can't give people CoC and that Tough battle/situation gives it to you. Why do you keep contradicting yourself?

2. What are you talking about in the Luffy situation. He was in an extreme situation. He literally was getting his ass beat and getting snuck by another BM pirate. Lol Rayleigh literally said training wouldn't get him the big advancement he needed to use it in battle against tough opponent. So idk what uou talking about. You need a tough situation to do it

What you’re saying literally makes no sense. Being a Germa doesn't make you a Conqueror. You are literally just saying random things

Zoro and Sanji are not unlocking conquerors just due to being in though battle
They’re unlocking it due to them becoming kings REALIZING THEIR KINGLY AMBITIONS. In Zoro’s case it was directly tied to enma and him deciding to become the king of hell. In Sanji’s case it will likely tie back to him fully accepting himself even the germa side of himself

Again no Zoro would not become the king of hell without king of hell enma

Also strengthening your haki through training EVEN IN EXTREME BATTLES is not the same thing at all as unlocking conquerors. Luffy was deadass training his observation haki in his fight with katakuri. Not the same thing as all as unlocking conquerors

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Zoro and Sanji are not unlocking conquerors just due to being in though battle
They’re unlocking it due to them becoming kings REALIZING THEIR KINGLY AMBITIONS. In Zoro’s case it was directly tied to enma and him deciding to become the king of hell. In Sanji’s case it will likely tie back to him fully accepting himself even the germa side of himself

Again no Zoro would not become the king of hell without king of hell enma

Also strengthening your haki through training EVEN IN EXTREME BATTLES is not the same thing at all as unlocking conquerors. Luffy was deadass training his observation haki in his fight with katakuri. Not the same thing as all as unlocking conquerors

1. Zoro didn't even know he unlocked CoC. This doesn't make sense because Luffy always wanted to become Kingly ambition but he didn't unlock CoC at 10 when he believed he will be King of the Pirates. You have to be in a do or die situation. Yamato, Doffy, ace etc.....

2. What your claiming is if Nami and Sanji had a conversation about accepting he a germa prince and Sanji begins to accept it cause Nami convince him he just randomly unlock it. Which is why I kept asking you why didn't Enma give Zoro CoC all those other times when it was sucking its Haki. Cause Zoro was not in any type of extreme situation.

What are you talking about. The haki bloom is the samething literally Sanji is going to be in extreme situation. Rayleigh literally literally says thats how it works.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

What are you talking about. The haki bloom is the samething literally Sanji is going to be in extreme situation. Rayleigh literally literally says thats how it works.

A "Haki Bloom" is when your Haki gets stronger and grows mid battle.

Unlocking Supreme King's Haki doesn't qualify as a Haki Bloom. It's just you unlocking it. Haki Blooming would be akin to Luffy's Haki being weaker than Kaido's at the start of their fight, then it growing strong enough to overpower Kaido's in their Flaming Drum Bagua vs Bajrang gun clash after winning the contest of wills.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Then why didn't Zoro get CoC in this scene and why didn't Scopper say anything about Enma

Zoro was holding back his Haki so that Enma wouldnt kill him there. If he had just let it do it's thing, it would have unlocked his CoC. Which is exactly what ended up happening when he finally locked in and realized he can't keep fighting the sword's nature.