Questions & Mysteries 2nd Zoro flashback

ImmaIvanoM · Jul 11, 2020

Oh please don't back out now.

You and I both know you don't care about training back stories. We are talking about parentage. And only parentage.

Sanji didn't have a random back story. It was set up from zou that his family drama was going to be important and guess what? It was important so Oda had to give us an explanation for why the drama is important.

So where's the setup in previous arcs of Zoro's backstory? Where have you seen in previous arcs that Zoro's parentage will matter?

What I've seen in previous arcs are three things. And only three things. Zoro wants to cut fire. Shusui was a stolen treasure of Wano. Zoro says he will round up the Wano Samurai.

These three plot points are literally the only thing before Wano started that connected Zoro to Wano. And so which of these do you think is set up for A Zoro back story?

Is cutting fire going to be Zoro lineage super power? Is Shusui being stolen going to be related to Zoro's lineage? Is Rounding up the Samurai also going to require Zoro's lineage?

We're 80 chapters in and would you look at that, two out of three of the plots are already done. Only cutting fire is left. You better pray that cutting fire is a secret roronoa family technique now.

Also I said Franky finding his parents would matter more than Zoro learning his father us dead because FRANKY WOULD CARE. Franky is an emotional guy. There's literally no way he would have no strong feelings about finding his parents forced into servitude under kaido. Whether he was raised by iceberg will not somehowsketch him have no reaction to seeing his birth parents.

On the other hand, you can't even pretend that Zoro will even think say more than three words if they tell him he had a long lost father in Wano. Like why would he care? According to his personality, why would this even affect him?

Albino 👑 · Jul 11, 2020

Luffy doesn't care who his father or mother is doesn't make it any less interesting finding out

ImmaIvanoM said:

Oh please don't back out now.

You and I both know you don't care about training back stories. We are talking about parentage. And only parentage.

Sanji didn't have a random back story. It was set up from zou that his family drama was going to be important and guess what? It was important so Oda had to give us an explanation for why the drama is important.

So where's the setup in previous arcs of Zoro's backstory? Where have you seen in previous arcs that Zoro's parentage will matter?

What I've seen in previous arcs are three things. And only three things. Zoro wants to cut fire. Shusui was a stolen treasure of Wano. Zoro says he will round up the Wano Samurai.

These three plot points are literally the only thing before Wano started that connected Zoro to Wano. And so which of these do you think is set up for A Zoro back story?

Is cutting fire going to be Zoro lineage super power? Is Shusui being stolen going to be related to Zoro's lineage? Is Rounding up the Samurai also going to require Zoro's lineage?

We're 80 chapters in and would you look at that, two out of three of the plots are already done. Only cutting fire is left. You better pray that cutting fire is a secret roronoa family technique now.

Also I said Franky finding his parents would matter more than Zoro learning his father us dead because FRANKY WOULD CARE. Franky is an emotional guy. There's literally no way he would have no strong feelings about finding his parents forced into servitude under kaido. Whether he was raised by iceberg will not somehowsketch him have no reaction to seeing his birth parents.

On the other hand, you can't even pretend that Zoro will even think say more than three words if they tell him he had a long lost father in Wano. Like why would he care? According to his personality, why would this even affect him?

Franky being an emotional guy doesn't mean he cares at all about seeing his father or mother again tbh

Tho im definitely curious about them personally

bennbeckman · Jul 11, 2020

ImmaIvanoM said:

Oh please don't back out now.

You and I both know you don't care about training back stories. We are talking about parentage. And only parentage.

Sanji didn't have a random back story. It was set up from zou that his family drama was going to be important and guess what? It was important so Oda had to give us an explanation for why the drama is important.

So where's the setup in previous arcs of Zoro's backstory? Where have you seen in previous arcs that Zoro's parentage will matter?

What I've seen in previous arcs are three things. And only three things. Zoro wants to cut fire. Shusui was a stolen treasure of Wano. Zoro says he will round up the Wano Samurai.

These three plot points are literally the only thing before Wano started that connected Zoro to Wano. And so which of these do you think is set up for A Zoro back story?

Is cutting fire going to be Zoro lineage super power? Is Shusui being stolen going to be related to Zoro's lineage? Is Rounding up the Samurai also going to require Zoro's lineage?

We're 80 chapters in and would you look at that, two out of three of the plots are already done. Only cutting fire is left. You better pray that cutting fire is a secret roronoa family technique now.

Also I said Franky finding his parents would matter more than Zoro learning his father us dead because FRANKY WOULD CARE. Franky is an emotional guy. There's literally no way he would have no strong feelings about finding his parents forced into servitude under kaido. Whether he was raised by iceberg will not somehowsketch him have no reaction to seeing his birth parents.

On the other hand, you can't even pretend that Zoro will even think say more than three words if they tell him he had a long lost father in Wano. Like why would he care? According to his personality, why would this even affect him?

from skimming through your Nobel Prize One Piece takes, and enjoying how they're oh so asinine and condescending a true 2 for 1, i will give you that this is some very interesting true god moe logic.... please tell me more about your tunnel vision for wano.... OH WAIT... nah im good, why would I continue an argument when you keep adding 3-4 paragraphs of pointless parallels that im not going to waste my time reading lol.

ImmaIvanoM · Jul 11, 2020

bennbeckman said:

It's fine if you have nothing to say. All you gotta do is not respond. I'll just continue with everyone else

bennbeckman · Jul 11, 2020

ImmaIvanoM said:

I may not like your comments but I respect you for this response

ImmaIvanoM · Jul 11, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

But SOMEONE DOES.

I've repeated this multiple times. One of Three things things have to happen for a a story to be a story.

The central character must care, or the side characters must care or the story must care.

Look through my responses. I keep pointing out that a dead father would not matter to Zoro, and would not matter to anyone else since No one in the arc has been shown to give a a shit about all the diamyo dying years ago. And the death of a shill the diamyo DOESN'T MATTER TO THE STORY.

So in the end, none of it matters.

Dragon matters to the story because Other people in the story care about Dragon and the actual story cares about him as well.

Luffy doesn't have to since sabo does. Luffy doesn't care about his mother but we assume Dragon does.

Its easy. Just make a list of anyone who cares about a dead father or any plot point that specifically REQUIRES knowledge or is driven by the specific death of this dead father. Just get ONE of these and we are done. That's a story right there. Just get one and I will let it go.

Because it's 80 chapters in and I don't see it. The closest person who could've cared about this dead father and provided a story to give motivation is Yasu. And nothing. Yasu doesn't mention Zoro resembles anyone and Yasu himself was no motivated by this dead father. So no one actually cares.

Next is there a story point that cares about this dead father? Like really can you think of about by of the current plot points su h about nus the defeat of kaido or Orochi that requires this dead father story? No?

Then there's no story here. You people want EXPOSITION. You don't want an actual story because you are okay with Oda just throwing things into the story that don't matter. You want bad writing.

Btw it wasn't hard for Oda to make this important if he wanted to. We have the yakuza bosses who must have been affiliated with this dead father. We had a flashback during this dead father's time. We had Yasu. We has tenguyama. We even had onimaru. But Oda chose nothing. So what does that tell you? It's almost like there's nothing there

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2020

bennbeckman said:

Again no need to respond

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

What I was saying was throwing Zoro's backstory in here is as random as throwing Franky's parents in here.

I was talking about the randomness and unimportance.

But the difference is that if you just thrown Franky's parents in front of him right now in the story. He will care. By literal virtue of who he is, he will care that his parents are right in front of him. And caring creates story.

Yet if you just throw in a character to tell about his long dead father right now in the story, HE WILL NOT CARE. And not caring leads to no story.

I'm surprised you guys haven't found the easiest loophole to my entire argument. Why hasn't anyone mentioned that Zoro's father is alive? Thats the easiest way of debunking my argument yet everyone is fixated on Zoro caring about a dead father

Albino 👑 · Jul 12, 2020

ImmaIvanoM said:

But SOMEONE DOES.

I've repeated this multiple times. One of Three things things have to happen for a a story to be a story.

The central character must care, or the side characters must care or the story must care.

Look through my responses. I keep pointing out that a dead father would not matter to Zoro, and would not matter to anyone else since No one in the arc has been shown to give a a shit about all the diamyo dying years ago. And the death of a shill the diamyo DOESN'T MATTER TO THE STORY.

So in the end, none of it matters.

Dragon matters to the story because Other people in the story care about Dragon and the actual story cares about him as well.

Luffy doesn't have to since sabo does. Luffy doesn't care about his mother but we assume Dragon does.

Its easy. Just make a list of anyone who cares about a dead father or any plot point that specifically REQUIRES knowledge or is driven by the specific death of this dead father. Just get ONE of these and we are done. That's a story right there. Just get one and I will let it go.

Because it's 80 chapters in and I don't see it. The closest person who could've cared about this dead father and provided a story to give motivation is Yasu. And nothing. Yasu doesn't mention Zoro resembles anyone and Yasu himself was no motivated by this dead father. So no one actually cares.

Next is there a story point that cares about this dead father? Like really can you think of about by of the current plot points su h about nus the defeat of kaido or Orochi that requires this dead father story? No?

Then there's no story here. You people want EXPOSITION. You don't want an actual story because you are okay with Oda just throwing things into the story that don't matter. You want bad writing.

Btw it wasn't hard for Oda to make this important if he wanted to. We have the yakuza bosses who must have been affiliated with this dead father. We had a flashback during this dead father's time. We had Yasu. We has tenguyama. We even had onimaru. But Oda chose nothing. So what does that tell you? It's almost like there's nothing there

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2020

Again no need to respond

Why do you assume zoro doesn't care about his parents tho?
Being a badass 7 year old orphan doesn't automatically mean he dont care about his parents

None of the strawhats have ever really mentioned anything about their biological parents that doesn't mean they dont care

Zoros whole origin before kuina is basically a big mystery in general

ImmaIvanoM · Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

it's not set up.

Its not set up within Zoro's motivations to care and it's not set up within his personality to care.

Like first of all he's not just randomly badass. He's stoic. You know, like aloof. Be definition these types of people generally care less about things in general. That why I said Franky from his personaluty alone would care if met his parents.

Secondly his motivations don't show he should care. I can assume Nami would care about her birth parents because her motivations partly revolve around family.

Same thing as Zeff Sanji and Judge. There had to be Set up in personality and general motivations of a character for a new development such as as secret family to affect them in affect meaningful way. Oda has a general path for a character and everything they encounter has to align with that general path.

You see? Thats set up. Zoro's motivations have never been about family ties at all. His story for 900 chapters has been about ambition and hard work. His personality doesn't indicate that he"ll give and good enough emotional response to such things ands to warrant a story around his emotions.

In the end, there's no set up. And doing things with no set up is BELOW Oda. He's not that bad at writing.

bennbeckman · Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

We will get a training flashback forsure, it will start up IMO when he is fighting king regarding turning a blade permanently black, it was hinted in dressrosa when he had a miniflashback regarding Mihawk turning the sword black and telling zoro he should feel shame for every knick on the blade.
I think we will also get an answer from (Zoro's Words) of how a blade turns black as well after his flashback from training.

I think when he see's Orochi he will have an additional couple panels of a similar flashback he did in 944 with yasu

I think he will see Hiyori again after the war, maybe a flashback when they visited his grave together.

He deserves a flashback of his past, but I dont think Oda will spend the extra time to put that into the story.

Albino 👑 · Jul 12, 2020

ImmaIvanoM said:

Why you typing so much
:josad:

It kinda has tho

From shimotuski island and was given a sword passed down through shimotuski
Fought zombie shimotuski ryuma and was given his sword
Even looks like ryuma
First person he became close to was shimotuski yasu
Met the fox that was connected to shimotuski ushimaru
Another one that resembles zoro
Was given enma a sword created by shimotuski

Like people aren't just making up his connections to wano

Post automatically merged: Jul 12, 2020

bennbeckman said:

I lowkey think he might get shusui back somehow especially the word of zoro maybe being related to ryuma and a possible successor gets out
That way hed get 3 shimotuski blades

Shusui
Enma
Wado

He definitely derserves a flashback and him meeting up with hiyori and orochi again should help

ImmaIvanoM · Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

I thought you were asking "Why do you think Zoro wouldn't care"

Doesn't this question entail that we are discussing Zoro's character? I said "there's no set up" in Zoro's Character for him to care and gave aspects of his character like motivation and Persknality to show that nothing presented would matter to him. As when nothing matters to anyone, we have no story.

Do you understand? You're the one who asked about Zoro's character and I was answering there's not set up in his character.

Now you are twisting what I was talking about and saying there's no plot set up and instead you are listing plot points and not character points.

And I stand by that too. None of the plot points you listed require Zoro to have any blood relation to anybody. But that's not what you were asking. You were asking about Zoro's character.

Everything about Kuina and shimotuski and Enma is done. It all got finished up with the Kouzaburo family line shit that was so unimportant that it was told right to Zoro's face and HE DIDN'T CARE.

Are you seeing a pattern? Whether you think something is kmportant or not, if the Character doesn't care. It doesn't matter. Zoro was told about all this and he didn't care. And thats that. So Oda just put it in an sbs

Sunita · Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

I think we will see a Zoro flashback (really, it's one of the things I have been waiting for the most from Wano xD). Zoro has a samurai spirit and I refuse to think that Oda has told us all about him. I hope to see his probable origin here, and if for example it has any relationship with the Shimotsuki family and with Ryuma. If not now, I see it unlikely in the future that Oda will speak further about Zoro.

RiShin · Jul 12, 2020

Depends if Oda wants to do a closure to Zoro and Tashigi rocky relationship because Zoro still calls her copycat even though she doesn't know why. And Tashigi still wants the Wado and has vowed to capture him with her own hands. Although Tashigi's opinion of the strawhats has swayed from the beginning, they are still on opposite sides because the S.hs are pirates and they are marines. That when SWORD comes to play or Smoker/Tashigi deflect from the marines because they saw another case of corruption from the World government which was the last straw.
With that going forward by Tashigi finally understanding who Zoro was talking about. Tashigi says.. Kuina was my late cousin. Flashback begins of Zoro's past on what drove him to become a swordsman, how did Zoro's mother died and the fateful day where Zoro challenge Koushirou's Dojo.

I would like it to happen in the Wano arc because the vegapunk subplot needs to be answered, Tashigi would fit in the settling perfectly and this is another game changer arc which Smoker & Tashigi shows up in. Such as in Alabasta, Marineford, end of FI, punk hazard and the end of Dressrosa.

Albino 👑 · Jul 12, 2020

RiShin said:

Depends if Oda wants to do a closure to Zoro and Tashigi rocky relationship because Zoro still calls her copycat even though she doesn't know why. And Tashigi still wants the Wado and has vowed to capture him with her own hands. Although Tashigi's opinion of the strawhats has swayed from the beginning, they are still on opposite sides because the S.hs are pirates and they are marines. That when SWORD comes to play or Smoker/Tashigi deflect from the marines because they saw another case of corruption from the World government which was the last straw.
With that going forward by Tashigi finally understanding who Zoro was talking about. Tashigi says.. Kuina was my late cousin. Flashback begins of Zoro's past on what drove him to become a swordsman, how did Zoro's mother died and the fateful day where Zoro challenge Koushirou's Dojo.

I would like it to happen in the Wano arc because the vegapunk subplot needs to be answered, Tashigi would fit in the settling perfectly and this is another game changer arc which Smoker & Tashigi shows up in. Such as in Alabasta, Marineford, end of FI, punk hazard and the end of Dressrosa.

Tashigi's ass better come to wano itd be a major wasted opportunity if she dont

Formerly Seth · Jul 12, 2020

Albino 👑 said:

RiShin · Jul 12, 2020

Sunita said:

In SBS 96, Oda said Zoro met Shimotsuki Kozaburo-san, and the reason how he learnt Sunacchi. So Oda just need to incorporate it all in the manga which I believe he will soon enough.

Momoheechulkabe9000 · Jul 12, 2020

RiShin said:

In chapter 685, Caesar said that the SMILE fruits would eventually kill the children in five years... Its definitely has been a few years the people of Ebisu have been victims. In other words, they have to find some cure for Killer, Toko, and the laughing citizens. So far Oda has not presented one clear solution in sight. Its not just about opening Wano. As Vivi puts it a country is its people.

It all depends on how act 3 ends... Hopefully, Oda won't rush this arc because of Covid 19.

Jo_Ndule · Jul 12, 2020

He is linked to Wano, especially Shimotsuki
Oda himself teased Zoro's lineage a bit on sbs

Zoro is just a boring character who follows a boring dream that is linked to another Boring Pirate.

Momoheechulkabe9000 · Jul 13, 2020

RiShin said:

I know Oda could reveal that flashback in a later arc but considering this his arc it would not make sense. We are in Wano the land of the Samurais with connection to Shimotsuki village through Kuina's family and Enma. It would be awkward if the FB does not happen in this arc.

RiShin · Jul 13, 2020

Momoheechulkabe9000 said:

Yeah, it has to be Wano! Too many connections to people surrounding Zoro and he needs a proper backstory.

Questions & Mysteries 2nd Zoro flashback

Formerly Seth

Jo_Ndule