Well, since forever, actually.
Since the very start Sanji was portrayed a step below Zoro and Luffy, seeing them as examples. The opposite never happened, obviously.
And that's the reason for why immediately after that, this happened.
I guess at least Sanji fans had some slight hopes after Kaku and Jyabura were introduced with close Doriki but then it was revealed how much gap stood not only in between Zoro and Sanji but Kaku and Jyabura themselves
I guess at least Sanji fans had some slight hopes after Kaku and Jyabura were introduced with close Doriki but then it was revealed how much gap stood not only in between Zoro and Sanji but Kaku and Jyabura themselves
Kaku is stronger than Jabra more than the doriki difference of 2200 to 2180 (that, anyway, Jabra commented with him being upset to being weaker than Kaku, not by saying that the gap is little... but somehow some fans conveniently forget about this).
Doriki doesn't count DF powers and the usage of external weapons. So let's say that DF Zoan powers of Giraffe and Wolf give a mere increase of strength, speed, stamina and so on.
While Jabra has his 2180 doriki, the amping of the Zoan powers, and nothing else, Kaku has his slightly better doriki of 2200, the amping of the Zoan powers... PLUS the usage of swords with the Yontoryu style (which is very important, as Kaku calls himself the CP9 Swordsman, and when is in trouble against Zoro goes back to take and use his swords), PLUS Kaku's strongest move, the tower-cutting Rankyaku Amanedachi (please note that Kaku need the massive giraffe body to use that move, therefore he could not use it before eating his DF, therefore his doriki obviously could not count that... and we are talking about no less than Kaku's strongest move).
So it's factual that the gap between Kaku and Jabra is much greater than the one between their doriki.
Their portrayal is also much different. Kaku is sort of Lucci's right hand man (they are the only twos with a special task about Nico Robin, taking her to the ships and protecting the keys to her handcuffs, Kaku reappears in CPO at Lucci's side in post time skip). While Jabra has the same exact relevance as Kalifa or Blueno.
Before using Ashura, Zoro wins many strength clashes with Kaku (not all of them, but many of them), and wounds him, and has him forced to dodge his attacks (Tatsumaki) or to intercept him at the last (Shishi Sonson) because otherwise he would be completely cut through his Tekkai. Kaku's Rokushiki and Zoan aren't enough and he is forced to use his swords also.
Before using Diable Jambe, Sanji gives a very good performance against Jabra, landing many hits, but also loses the strength clashes. Jabra's Rokushiki and Zoan seem to be enough and he isn't forced in actually troubling situations.
After using Ashura, Zoro completely trashes Kaku: Kaku's strongest move is annihilated as if it was nothing, and Kaku gets blitzed and defeated without being able to do nothing, and immediately goes down. Zoro is untouched.
After using Diable Jambe, Sanji definitely defeats Jabra without no if and no but, sure. But he doesn't trash him the way Zoro trashed the stronger Kaku: Sanji needs three hits to win: one gets tanked, another gets completely dodged, the third one is the good one but Sanji also suffers a wound in the act of landing his hit.
So it's a fact that Zoro defeated Kaku, the stronger opponent, in a more clear-cut way and with far greater dominance than Sanji could defeat Jabra, the weaker opponent.
Do you know what Is a parallel bro?
It's not the fact that Zoro and Sanji did a race that Means they are rivals, but the fact that they share a parallel with the two biggest rivals in the manga.
Luffy and Zoro share parallels with the biggest rivals ever
Plus all the many parallels that Luffy and Zoro share
And still aren't equals
Sanji has parallels with Zoro, to show that both are completely different from the rest of the crew, as the two ones that cover Luffy's back the most. Not necessarily in strength related ways.
Zoro has many more and greater parallels with Luffy, to show that both are completely different from the rest of the crew, as the only two ones that live to reach the top of the word with their strength.
That's why Sanji has some parallels with Zoro, and Zoro has many parallels with Luffy, and Sanji has zero parallels with Luffy.
No wonder that Oda officially stated that Zoro is the number two in strength in the Strawhat crew. Meaning that it is undesputable that Zoro is a good deal stronger than Sanji (just like Rayleigh than Gaban, King than Queen and so on). Which was common sense for most, but anyway, I am glad that Oda cleared this once and for all, even for the most biased ones.
The author didn't pick Queen, Sanjj, Gaban, Jozu and so on. He also didn't pick King + Queen, Zoro + Sanji, Rayleigh + Gaban, Marco + Jozu and so on. No, no bullshit of that kind. Oda picked King and King alone, Zoro and Zoro alone, Rayleigh and Rayleigh alone, Marco and Marco alone and so on. And he stated that the ones that he picked were there because they were the number twos, explaining (with the Bepo vs Penguin/Shachi thing) that he means the second strongest in the crews and groups.
I don't want to say that Sanji is not strong. He is just not as strong as Luffy and Zoro. And that's the reason for why Oda reserved a similar portrayal for the latters, who share many parallels and comparisons in strength, power ups, backgrounds, paths, benchmarks and goals. Also I'm not arguing that Zoro is exactly pound for pound as strong as Luffy. He definitely is not. But is close enough to be extremely comparable. This at least before Gear 5/Nika Nika thing.
It's a fact that Oda had Zoro share all these parallels with Luffy. While he didn't have Sanji share traits with Luffy. That's undesputable.
Like it or not, the amount of different times and different ways where Zoro is put close to Luffy is gargantuan. The sheer number of those comparisons is astonishing, it screams loud, like the absolute absence of the same closeness between Sanji and Luffy, screams loud as well, but in the opposite way. Even the most biased Sanji fan has should admit that...
Could you please deal with it, someday?
If only you few could stop your morbid denial of blatant evidence... oh that would be so great.
I think that a certain biased part of the fandom completely twisted the notion of what portrayal is. These special friends of us would suggest that quarrelling or appearing in a panel together is enough to make two characters close, if not even equals, for life. That's obviously a terrible way to promote their comical agenda, which we know well already.
But I mean, maybe they are right? Let's see.
EPISODE 1 "B-but they bicker, they must be close if not even equals!" Let's see.
An heated confrontation between two characters, depicted as polar opposites with one representing a cat and the other a dog, so cat vs dog, the fated battle of the nature world, not to mention the way the author draws them one edging against the other, so might, I mean, this is clear portrayal, these two are equals, case closed, deal done...
Surprise surprise: it's Lucci vs Jabra! And no one with a working brain would say that Lucci and Jabra are equals. So should be said for other characters with similar panels.
EPISODE 2 "B-but they are portrayed as rivals, clearly!" Let's go further and see, again.
A tough fight seems about to rise, the two opponents are going to move from bickering to a real last blood battle, look the way they glare between themselves, look the way the author depicts them as if they hold the same relevance, you can bet, the way the page is perfectly divided in two between these two hot headed warriors, I mean, you really can bet, these two are equals.
Sorry but no, again, here's another surprise! It's Kidd and Apoo! By any chance, is there some special friend who thinks that these two are equals? Don't be afraid, be coherent and tell us that Kidd and Apoo have the same strength!
EPISODE 3 "B-but the author showed them achieving the same feat, in a double page nonetheless!"
Oh, well, this is not desputable (or maybe it is...). This is written in stone (or maybe it is not...). I mean just look. Look the way these two defeat two equal opponents, no come on there's no doubt, they put the same effort to defeat two equally strong foes, and the author depicts this in a massive double page spread with both the guys being paralleled, if that's not 100% portrayal of being equals, then I don't know.
Do you like the surprise? Now prove your coherence. Prove it! Say that Drake is equal to Gear 4 Luffy! Say it!
You will be stupid but, at least, coherent.
EPISODE 4 - "B-but they are mentioned together!"
Something else need to be even said? These two character are mentioned together in the same phrase in the same category, no distinction, they are just "officials". Nuff said. No one is said to be the far stronger one, only "officers". This seals the deal. They are equals.
I want it. I want you to dare to say "yes, I said that if two people are mentioned together they are equals. Therefore Katakuri and Cracker, who have been mentioned together as "Big Mom's officers", are equals". Show your coherence, and say it!
EPISODE 5 - "B-but they challenge themselves in a manly contest!"
I know. I know. If two people challenge themselves at a contest, be it hunting, fishing or whatever like that, the two of them must be equals. You don't play a challenge with someone if you are not close to him!
Look, two guys challenging themselves... no one other than Luffy and Zoro that Oda had challenge themselves in hunting/fishing contests. Even more than once. Well I definitely remember some delusional people arguing that Zoro and Sanji challenging in similar contests meant that they were rivals, close in strength and what not. And what about this, then? Let's see these people's coherence!
I guess that for some reason that counted but this doesn't count as portrayal, am I right? For the series: if I don't like it then it does not count.
Funny how Oda could have easily set up the challenge between Zoro and Sanji, as all the Strawhats were available here: and instead he chose to have it between Luffy and Zoro.
So, as we just saw... hell, no. Two people can be both dangerous, or both being grouped together or doing something together the same way in the same panel, or both share the same title, and that's not portrayal of anything, and they can still be far apart in strength. Especially if everything else it was showed and stated about them shows and implies that.
Usual example is King and Queen.
They are mentioned together, don't get along and bicker... but when shit becomes real, Queen is the first one who obeys King, Queen even makes sure to worship King by hyping the power of his Lunarian race. Oda made a complete distinction between King (officially confirmed second strongest in the Beast Pirates, leader of the All Stars, and Kaido's right hand man of choice, received his name from Kaido who praised his strength, was hyped also by Queen, was showed as a killer machine) and Queen (a mere All Star and underling, no hype from Kaido, no hype from King, was showed as a scientist with flaws as a fighter).
Yeah, all that difference, inspite of all their bickering and the panel they appeared together.
Not to mention that being mentioned together means jackshit. Ofter we see characters getting mentioned as Strawhats, and so what, is Usopp equal to Luffy? The same goes for being mentioned generically as All Stars, Sweet Commanders, Titanic Captains, Supernovas: for example we have Law and Hawkins being mentioned together as Supernovas, but that doesn't mean anything, they just have the minimum requirements for being both part of that group and therefore being mentioned together, but that doesn't mean in anyway that they are close. The same goes for the rest.
The same goes for the famed "Wings" thing. That doesnt' mean anything in terms of strength, like a certain delusional biased fandom would desperately claim. It just refers to volume 73 SBS where Oda stated that both Zoro and Sanji are trustworthy men who cover Luffys's back. Which is, indeed, what they are, nothing more nothing less. Oda could have easily called them rivals or something in that issue, but, face the reality, he chose to not.
And, funny thing, even if he did (which, again, he chose to not do) being rivals doesn't mean anything.
You can bicker like Lucci vs Jabra, Kaku vs Jabra, King vs Queen, Luffy vs Kidd, Shanks vs Buggy, Mr 1 vs Mr 2: these are gag rivalries where people just don't get along or friendly compete. You can have a rivalry that is not friendly and not based on gags but is still far from making the two rivals close or equals, as one of the two is much stronger than the other, like Kidd vs Apoo, Zoro vs Killer, Luffy vs Koby.
The supposed rivalry between Zoro and Sanji is a mix of the two aforementioned situations.
A completely different thing are actual properly said rivalries, like Shanks vs Mihawk, Zoro vs Mihawk, Roger vs Garp, Roger vs Whitebeard, Teach vs Luffy. These are serious strength rivalries where people compete for the pinnacle of strength and/or the same important achievement, and if they fight they would draw of the winner would come out after an extreme diff battle.
People should just deal with it. Bickering and don't getting along well doesn't mean being rivals.
And being rivals still isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers. It's just a competition between people with similar roles but different strength.
For example the way you could say that Cavendish and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and swordsmen, and we know Zoro is much stronger, also you could say that Killer and Zoro are rivals for being both Supernovas and partners/number twos/first mates/right hands to their captain, and we know Zoro is much stronger, just like also Kidd and Luffy are rivals for being both Supernovas and Pirate King contenders, and we know Luffy is much stronger.
Hell, all the Supernovas, even Capone and Bonney, are stated to be rivals for Luffy. But, again, being rivals isn't absolutely the same thing as being equals and peers.
While the thing about, for example, Mihawk and Shanks is completely different. Their rivalry many times in the manga and in databooks and other official sources is stated to be a rivalry between equals. And now it is directly paralleled with the rivalry between Roger and Whitebeard, who we all know that were peers and equally as strong. There is even a reference to Roger-Whitebeard and Shanks-Mihawk fighting on par in 1 vs 1 and also getting along to drink together.
It's sad that this certain delusional biased fandom nonetheless continues to try to sustain that if you don't get along then that must be you definitely be equals or almost equals, who cares if anything else, feats, portrayal, benchmarks, paths, goals, roles, shows the opposite...
Face the reality. Deal with it. Portrayal is not what some people suggest. And stilll by any parameter, Zoro has much more parallels and things that he shares (portrayals, powers, goals, benchmarks) with Luffy than he has with Sanji. And most things that Zoro shares with Luffy, Sanji has not. Why, do you think? Maybe the correct answer is just the easiest one...
Yeah, maybe the easiest answer really is the correct one.
I dnt think it was ever alive. When Sanji was introduced, or should say when he had his first real fight, he loses. Zoro low diffed captain Morgan. Morgan>Gin. Even Sanji couldnt believe how Zoro is alive after the Mihawk fight. Then Arlong gets scared of Zoro. Sanji was never close to Zoro. Zoro and Luffy was the only two in the east blue on equal footing. Just hearing Zoro name had Don Krieg sweating. Didnt he punch Sanji in the gut after he fed em? Now, do you think Zoro would take that and not do nothing?
Kaku is stronger than Jabra more than the doriki difference of 2200 to 2180 (that, anyway, Jabra commented with him being upset to being weaker than Kaku, not by saying that the gap is little... but somehow some fans conveniently forget about this).
Doriki doesn't count DF powers and the usage of external weapons. So let's say that DF Zoan powers of Giraffe and Wolf give a mere increase of strength, speed, stamina and so on.
While Jabra has his 2180 doriki, the amping of the Zoan powers, and nothing else, Kaku has his slightly better doriki of 2200, the amping of the Zoan powers... PLUS the usage of swords with the Yontoryu style (which is very important, as Kaku calls himself the CP9 Swordsman, and when is in trouble against Zoro goes back to take and use his swords), PLUS Kaku's strongest move, the tower-cutting Rankyaku Amanedachi (please note that Kaku need the massive giraffe body to use that move, therefore he could not use it before eating his DF, therefore his doriki obviously could not count that... and we are talking about no less than Kaku's strongest move).
So it's factual that the gap between Kaku and Jabra is much greater than the one between their doriki.
Their portrayal is also much different. Kaku is sort of Lucci's right hand man (they are the only twos with a special task about Nico Robin, taking her to the ships and protecting the keys to her handcuffs, Kaku reappears in CPO at Lucci's side in post time skip). While Jabra has the same exact relevance as Kalifa or Blueno.
Before using Ashura, Zoro wins many strength clashes with Kaku (not all of them, but many of them), and wounds him, and has him forced to dodge his attacks (Tatsumaki) or to intercept him at the last (Shishi Sonson) because otherwise he would be completely cut through his Tekkai. Kaku's Rokushiki and Zoan aren't enough and he is forced to use his swords also.
Before using Diable Jambe, Sanji gives a very good performance against Jabra, landing many hits, but also loses the strength clashes. Jabra's Rokushiki and Zoan seem to be enough and he isn't forced in actually troubling situations.
After using Ashura, Zoro completely trashes Kaku: Kaku's strongest move is annihilated as if it was nothing, and Kaku gets blitzed and defeated without being able to do nothing, and immediately goes down. Zoro is untouched.
After using Diable Jambe, Sanji definitely defeats Jabra without no if and no but, sure. But he doesn't trash him the way Zoro trashed the stronger Kaku: Sanji needs three hits to win: one gets tanked, another gets completely dodged, the third one is the good one but Sanji also suffers a wound in the act of landing his hit.
So it's a fact that Zoro defeated Kaku, the stronger opponent, in a more clear-cut way and with far greater dominance than Sanji could defeat Jabra, the weaker opponent.
Also I'd add that Zoro would've been able to defeat Jabra before even getting his EL powerup, because he could already break through tekkai since alabasta haha. In the new world we also see how differently asura is portrayed.
I dnt think it was ever alive. When Sanji was introduced, or should say when he had his first real fight, he loses. Zoro low diffed captain Morgan. Morgan>Gin. Even Sanji couldnt believe how Zoro is alive after the Mihawk fight. Then Arlong gets scared of Zoro. Sanji was never close to Zoro. Zoro and Luffy was the only two in the east blue on equal footing. Just hearing Zoro name had Don Krieg sweating. Didnt he punch Sanji in the gut after he fed em? Now, do you think Zoro would take that and not do nothing?
Oda: Sanji is not a King, is not a WG Supernova, has no top tiers as his established benchmarks, doesn't have CoC and Adv CoC, isn't strong and relevant enough to fight enemies like Yonkos and Yonko First Mates
Sanji flat earther fanboys: Sanji is close to Zoro, rivalzz, wingzz, equalzz
Also Sanji flat earther fanboys: Zoro is shit but Sanji is so strong, he is close to Zoro
Luffy and Zoro being rivals is as much as Mihawk and Vista does. They are literally captain and subordinate. That's like saying Marco and Whitebeard or Roger and Rayleigh are rivals which they clearly aren't.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
![[No Name]](https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/data/avatars/o/8/8045.jpg?1622550034){kind=avatar}
Zoro and Luffy was the only two in the east blue on equal footing. Just hearing Zoro name had Don Krieg sweating. Didnt he punch Sanji in the gut after he fed em? Now, do you think Zoro would take that and not do nothing? 
