if zoro was close to luffy more than he is to sanji why did he fight king whom queen is very close to and not like someone strong? dont tell me kaido wont one to two shot king xD. why didnt he fight another yonko like character ? nice coping mechanism you got but sanji zoro rivarly has been developed right from the start of the series unlike some stupid examples you gave up in the thread debunks shit xD keep copin
General & Others About supposed portrayal of supposed rivals and supposed equals
- Thread starter ThunderSupernova
- Start date
You completely misunderstood everything.
No one says that Luffy and Zoro are rivals, let alone equals. Not to mention that being rivals doesn't mean being equals, the entire thread is made to show this once and for all.
The thing is that Marco has Whitebeard as his father. King has Kaido as his boss. Katakuri has Big Mom as his mother.
That's completely different here. Zoro's relationship with Luffy is not like that, they are like Rayleigh and Roger, so very close in strength. Hence the parallels Dark King/King of Pirates and King of Hell (plus WSS)/King of Pirates.
Zoro is not a mere subordinate or underling. He is a right hand man closer to his captain than to the rest of the crew. No wonder Oda had only those two in all the Strawhats share powers and parallels (Adv CoC, Supernovas, Shanks/Mihawk as benchmarks and so on).
That's why the started like this. Note how since the very start Sanji was portrayed a step below Zoro and Luffy, seeing them as examples. The opposite never happened, obviously.
And that's the reason for why immediately after that, this happened.
And went like this to nowadays.
No one says that Luffy and Zoro are rivals, let alone equals. Not to mention that being rivals doesn't mean being equals, the entire thread is made to show this once and for all.
The thing is that Marco has Whitebeard as his father. King has Kaido as his boss. Katakuri has Big Mom as his mother.
That's completely different here. Zoro's relationship with Luffy is not like that, they are like Rayleigh and Roger, so very close in strength. Hence the parallels Dark King/King of Pirates and King of Hell (plus WSS)/King of Pirates.
Zoro is not a mere subordinate or underling. He is a right hand man closer to his captain than to the rest of the crew. No wonder Oda had only those two in all the Strawhats share powers and parallels (Adv CoC, Supernovas, Shanks/Mihawk as benchmarks and so on).
That's why the started like this. Note how since the very start Sanji was portrayed a step below Zoro and Luffy, seeing them as examples. The opposite never happened, obviously.
And that's the reason for why immediately after that, this happened.
And went like this to nowadays.
OMG Apoo and Kidd are rivals
They must be equals
I mean they are clearly portrayed as rivals through the entire story, from their very first comparison (the first time they appear in the manga, they appear together, bickering and going to fight each other!)
Kidd = Apoo, is undesputable
... that's how would be the world if everyone was a flat earther like Cucksmoke stans. But luckily most people have a working brain and use common sense, to understand that is obvious that even if some people bicker, compete and/or are part of the same group, that doesn't mean that they are equals or close, if they have completely different backgrounds, paths, powers, goals, benchmarks, achievements, feats.
They must be equals
I mean they are clearly portrayed as rivals through the entire story, from their very first comparison (the first time they appear in the manga, they appear together, bickering and going to fight each other!)
Kidd = Apoo, is undesputable
... that's how would be the world if everyone was a flat earther like Cucksmoke stans. But luckily most people have a working brain and use common sense, to understand that is obvious that even if some people bicker, compete and/or are part of the same group, that doesn't mean that they are equals or close, if they have completely different backgrounds, paths, powers, goals, benchmarks, achievements, feats.
Zoro and Luffy having one dynamic and Zoro and Sanji having another dynamic isn’t actually a problem... you know that right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
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Zoro and Luffy having one dynamic and Zoro and Sanji having another dynamic isn’t actually a problem... you know that right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
Luffy and Zoro aren't rivals.
Also there are clearly two dynamics.
Luffy - Zoro = The captain and his close right hand man, both Conquerors (only ones in the Strawhats), both Worst Generation Supernovas (only ones in the Strawhats), both with top tier as their benchmarks (only ones in the Strawhats), both with fighting oriented goals (only ones in the Strawhats), both with Advanced Haki (only ones in the Strawhats)
Zoro - Sanji = The strongest crewmembers, the ones who cover the back of the captain far more than the other crewmembers could ever do
Every Shonen Protagonist needs a counterpart.
I see Luffy vs Coby clashing at the finale, after the strawhats found the one piece and brought down the celestial dragons/ corrupt WorldGovernment.
Maybe Oda will leave the ending open, when they are about to hit each other.
I see Luffy vs Coby clashing at the finale, after the strawhats found the one piece and brought down the celestial dragons/ corrupt WorldGovernment.
Maybe Oda will leave the ending open, when they are about to hit each other.
Perhaps Post EoS if you get a flashforward but possibly even earlier. 🤔
I wouldn't mind if it happens earlier, allthough i would personaly prefer it to be after all the "evil" has been taken care of. So they can have their "friendly" promised battle to the death.
No but seriously, like many fans wish for a friendly encounter between the strawhats and the red hair pirates(davy back fight?), i would like to see helmeppo - zoro / coby - luffy fight. A little flash forward could actually be interesting to justify Coby going toe to toe with Luffy hm, hard to tell at the Moment.
No but seriously, like many fans wish for a friendly encounter between the strawhats and the red hair pirates(davy back fight?), i would like to see helmeppo - zoro / coby - luffy fight. A little flash forward could actually be interesting to justify Coby going toe to toe with Luffy hm, hard to tell at the Moment.
Zoro and Luffy having one dynamic and Zoro and Sanji having another dynamic isn’t actually a problem... you know that right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
Both can be exist
Zoro clearly has better portrayal and feats than Sanji yet the dynamic clearly exists just like Luffy clearly has better portrayal and feats than Zoro yet that dynamic also clearly exists
I don’t understand Zoro fans who try to push him up to Luffy’s level while completely disregarding another dynamic that Oda clearly pays attention to
Zoro and Sanji were both called Wings, Stars, were the only 2 strawhats outside of Luffy to come out of the timeskip with haki, and were the only 2 strawhats to fight commanders but y’all would swear it’s all just a coincidence
Also, I find it funny that you consider the Luffy and Zoro rivalry to be one that’s based purely on strength when Luffy has always been 1 and Zoro has always been 2
Roger and Whitebeard have always been considered equals while Oda explicitly stated that Zoro is “second only to his captain” in the crew
You’re disregarding things that don’t fit your agenda. The Dorry and Brogy parallel is a meme but the parallels that you can use to compare Luffy and Zoro aren’t? Hmmm
Edit: I almost forgot to mention that Luffy and Zoro are on 2 completely different levels as we speak. Equal rivalry though, right?
COPE
Oh fine then.
Guess why Oda had Luffy trained by top tier Rayleigh, Zoro trained by top tier Mihawk and Sanji trained by...
This guy lol
I mean Luffy's trainer or Zoro's trainer are light years stronger than Sanji's trainer. Guess why...
Guess why Oda had Luffy trained by top tier Rayleigh, Zoro trained by top tier Mihawk and Sanji trained by...
This guy lol
I mean Luffy's trainer or Zoro's trainer are light years stronger than Sanji's trainer. Guess why...
And even if he unlocked his genetics earlier I quite doubt he would have reached their level.
Oh fine then.
Guess why Oda had Luffy trained by top tier Rayleigh, Zoro trained by top tier Mihawk and Sanji trained by...
This guy lol
I mean Luffy's trainer or Zoro's trainer are light years stronger than Sanji's trainer. Guess why...
Guess why Oda had Luffy trained by top tier Rayleigh, Zoro trained by top tier Mihawk and Sanji trained by...
This guy lol
I mean Luffy's trainer or Zoro's trainer are light years stronger than Sanji's trainer. Guess why...
What’s your argument? Are you trying to argue against them being equal or what
It is Luffy > Zoro >> Sanji
Luffy has dynamics of with Zoro, Zoro has dynamics with Sanji, a dynamics between Luffy and Sanji doesn't exist.
Luffy and Zoro share so many aspects and parallels, while Zoro and Sanji, while sharing some ones, still have completely different backgrounds, goals, paths, powers, benchmarks.
That's why there are two dynamics in Monster Trio
Luffy - Zoro = The captain and his close right hand man, the Sun and his Moon, both Conquerors (only ones in the Strawhats), both Worst Generation Supernovas (only ones in the Strawhats), both with top tier as their benchmarks (only ones in the Strawhats), both with fighting oriented goals (only ones in the Strawhats), both with Advanced Haki (only ones in the Strawhats)
Zoro - Sanji = The strongest crewmembers, the ones who due to that strength cover the back of the captain far more than the other crewmembers could ever do and therefore can be called his wings; the ones who therefore can help the captain in the direst moments of his rise to become the PK
Luffy has dynamics of with Zoro, Zoro has dynamics with Sanji, a dynamics between Luffy and Sanji doesn't exist.
Luffy and Zoro share so many aspects and parallels, while Zoro and Sanji, while sharing some ones, still have completely different backgrounds, goals, paths, powers, benchmarks.
That's why there are two dynamics in Monster Trio
Luffy - Zoro = The captain and his close right hand man, the Sun and his Moon, both Conquerors (only ones in the Strawhats), both Worst Generation Supernovas (only ones in the Strawhats), both with top tier as their benchmarks (only ones in the Strawhats), both with fighting oriented goals (only ones in the Strawhats), both with Advanced Haki (only ones in the Strawhats)
Zoro - Sanji = The strongest crewmembers, the ones who due to that strength cover the back of the captain far more than the other crewmembers could ever do and therefore can be called his wings; the ones who therefore can help the captain in the direst moments of his rise to become the PK
I'd say it's more like Luffy >>>>>>> Zoro > Sanji
Idk how you can say the gap between Luffy and Zoro is smaller than the gap between Zoro and Sanji with everything that's going on in the manga rn
Luffy and Zoro haven't been close since he unlocked ACOC and started fighting Kaido and they sure as hell aren't close now
Before Luffy got multiple power ups I might've been able to buy the whole "they're pretty close thing" but I can't anymore
We'll see if that changes later on
Side note: The only people that actively try to pair Sanji and Luffy the same way Zoro and Luffy are paired are certain toxic Sanji fans like Colt (no surprise there) and Chrono
I don't think anyone other than those 2 would try to argue that
Idk how you can say the gap between Luffy and Zoro is smaller than the gap between Zoro and Sanji with everything that's going on in the manga rn
Luffy and Zoro haven't been close since he unlocked ACOC and started fighting Kaido and they sure as hell aren't close now
Before Luffy got multiple power ups I might've been able to buy the whole "they're pretty close thing" but I can't anymore
We'll see if that changes later on
Side note: The only people that actively try to pair Sanji and Luffy the same way Zoro and Luffy are paired are certain toxic Sanji fans like Colt (no surprise there) and Chrono
I don't think anyone other than those 2 would try to argue that
Of course at the moment Luffy is a good deal stronger than Zoro, sure. That's because Luffy received a power up more than Zoro, and it's also a massive one
But let's wait and see if Zoro unlocks another power up in these very next moments
I have
- Current Luffy
-
- Post 1026 Luffy
-
- Post 1010 Luffy
- Current Zoro
-
- Rooftop Luffy
-
- Rooftop Zoro
-
- Start of Wano/Post WCI Luffy
-
- Current Sanji
-
- Start of WCI Luffy
- Start of Wano Zoro
- Dressrosa/Start of Pre TS Luffy
-
- Dressrosa/Start of Pre TS Zoro
- Start of Wano Sanji
-
- WCI Sanji
-
- Start of Pre TS Sanji
But let's wait and see if Zoro unlocks another power up in these very next moments
I have
- Current Luffy
-
- Post 1026 Luffy
-
- Post 1010 Luffy
- Current Zoro
-
- Rooftop Luffy
-
- Rooftop Zoro
-
- Start of Wano/Post WCI Luffy
-
- Current Sanji
-
- Start of WCI Luffy
- Start of Wano Zoro
- Dressrosa/Start of Pre TS Luffy
-
- Dressrosa/Start of Pre TS Zoro
- Start of Wano Sanji
-
- WCI Sanji
-
- Start of Pre TS Sanji