Chapter Discussion About Yamato helping out Luffy vs Kaido

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𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
I still don't see it. Outside of wanting Yamato vs Kaido this theory doesn't really have much to go off of...
This is true, but Yamato is confirmed to be heading to the Rooftop to face Kaido as at last chapter:




Yamato doesn't have advanced armament, she may have advanced conqueror.
What do you think Narikabura Arrow was?


If they are not humans then what? Unless it is a new race that has scales and horns.
Yes, they are from a horned race that tend to be larger in size than ordinary humans.


I am aware that they call him a "creature" and after seeing his non-human characteristics I would also call him a crature rather than a human.
Kaido has been outright suggested to be non human. When Law called him the World's Strongest Creature, Nami asked if that meant he's not even human.

Kaido has never been described as a human and always as a creature. I don't understand why you're trying to insist that Kaido is human. The claim that Kaido's horns are from his Devil Fruit ability also makes no sense. There isn't any precedent for Zoan Devil Fruits affecting the Base form of their users.

I don't know, your claims about Kaido and Yamato seem way off the mark and it appears like you're being wilfully stubborn.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Every single motherfucker who wants to downplay Yamato can be described this way...like I said earlier, it’s going to kick ass when we take our victory lap at the end of this arc :akaman:
Honestly speaking, excitement about Yamato is why I returned to public activity, so I'm just really hyped up.

She's the most exciting character Oda has introduced postskip.
 
This is true, but Yamato is confirmed to be heading to the Rooftop to face Kaido as at last chapter:





What do you think Narikabura Arrow was?



Yes, they are from a horned race that tend to be larger in size than ordinary humans.



Kaido has been outright suggested to be non human. When Law called him the World's Strongest Creature, Nami asked if that meant he's not even human.

Kaido has never been described as a human and always as a creature. I don't understand why you're trying to insist that Kaido is human. The claim that Kaido's horns are from his Devil Fruit ability also makes no sense. There isn't any precedent for Zoan Devil Fruits affecting the Base form of their users.

I don't know, your claims about Kaido and Yamato seem way off the mark and it appears like you're being wilfully stubborn.
Yamato’s desire to make it to the roof doesn’t mean they’ll get to it. They seem like they want to help Luffy but I hope Kaido is able to beat Luffy before Yamato makes it all the way up.

I’m pretty sure Yamato will meet up with Jack
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
They seem like they want to help Luffy but I hope Kaido is able to beat Luffy before Yamato makes it all the way up.
Independent of her desire to assist Luffy, Yamato wants to face Kaido on her own:

Luffy asks Yamato if she really wants to fight on their side, that doing so will mean seeing him whoop Kaido. Yamato asserts that she wishes she could do it herself. She states that Kaido has beaten her several times since childhood and ensured that she always paid the price for challenging him:

She speaks fondly and approvingly of Ace (a man who came to kill her father). He's the only one she's called friend:

She tells Luffy to hurry that they need to help finish Kaido off:

When the Beast Pirates try to recruit her to assist them, she states that she's not on their side anymore. Without remorse, she declares "Let my Father die":

When Luffy says that he didn't come to beat Kaido, she questions him:

She had offered her assistance to Luffy under the impression that he came to defeat Kaido, declaring that she will fulfil Oden's unfinished will to open up Wano:

She expresses worry for Luffy and declares that she wants a chance to beat Kaido as well:

I’m pretty sure Yamato will meet up with Jack
I'm not convinced. There is nothing — and I mean nothing at all — suggesting that Yamato will fight Jack.
 
Independent of her desire to assist Luffy, Yamato wants to face Kaido on her own:

Luffy asks Yamato if she really wants to fight on their side, that doing so will mean seeing him whoop Kaido. Yamato asserts that she wishes she could do it herself. She states that Kaido has beaten her several times since childhood and ensured that she always paid the price for challenging him:

She speaks fondly and approvingly of Ace (a man who came to kill her father). He's the only one she's called friend:

She tells Luffy to hurry that they need to help finish Kaido off:

When the Beast Pirates try to recruit her to assist them, she states that she's not on their side anymore. Without remorse, she declares "Let my Father die":

When Luffy says that he didn't come to beat Kaido, she questions him:

She had offered her assistance to Luffy under the impression that he came to defeat Kaido, declaring that she will fulfil Oden's unfinished will to open up Wano:

She expresses worry for Luffy and declares that she wants a chance to beat Kaido as well:


I'm not convinced. There is nothing — and I mean nothing at all — suggesting that Yamato will fight Jack.
It's more of that many new characters want to fight the big bads of their main arcs, however, they instead give in and put their faith in Luffy and the Straw Hats. (Chopper/Franky/Brook/Jinbe)

So I'm hesitant to think Yamato will fight Kaido, even more so knowing it'll be a one sided slaughter.

Yamato vs Jack would be a fight that can flesh Yamato's character out because they grew up together and Jack is treated more like Kaido's son than Yamato is. And Jack looks to the Beast Pirates as his family meanwhile Yamato hates being Kaido's family. I feel if anyone can give an entertaining fight and cause some character growth it would be the person who Yamato grew up with.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
It's more of that many new characters want to fight the big bads of their main arcs, however, they instead give in and put their faith in Luffy and the Straw Hats. (Chopper/Franky/Brook/Jinbe)
I expect Yamato to be defeated when she fights Kaido, that doesn't mean she wouldn't get a fleshed-out battle with him. Law was defeated by Doflamingo, but they still had a full scale battle.

So I'm hesitant to think Yamato will fight Kaido, even more so knowing it'll be a one sided slaughter.
  1. The narrative strongly suggests otherwise.
  2. You don't know that it would be a one-sided slaughter. You don't know how strong Yamato is. Oda could make her stronger than Marco if he wanted.

because they grew up together
Where are you getting that Yamato grew up with Jack from?
:choppawhat:


Jack is treated more like Kaido's son than Yamato is.
Where are you getting this from? Kaido treats Yamato as his son.

He taught her his fighting style:

Yamato's presence at the banquet was of such importance that King summoned the Tobi Roppo:




Kaido revealed that he had a special announcement involving Yamato:

The announcement was that he intends to make Yamato Shogun of New Onigashima:

Based on the Tobi Roppo's conversation (in particular Ulti's words), Kaido has regularly summoned them to help him handle issues involving Yamato:



On the other hand, Kaido only described Jack as "one of his most valued men":


And Jack looks to the Beast Pirates as his family
Source for this.


I feel if anyone can give an entertaining fight and cause some character growth it would be the person who Yamato grew up with.
  • Yamato did not grow up with Jack.
    • There is literally no indication for this.
  • A father vs son confrontation can give a very entertaining fight.
  • A father vs son confrontation can give us character growth.

As far as I can tell, your case for Yamato vs Jack is based on nothing but headcanon that is outright contradicted by the manga.
 
I expect Yamato to be defeated when she fights Kaido, that doesn't mean she wouldn't get a fleshed-out battle with him. Law was defeated by Doflamingo, but they still had a full scale battle.


  1. The narrative strongly suggests otherwise.
  2. You don't know that it would be a one-sided slaughter. You don't know how strong Yamato is. Oda could make her stronger than Marco if he wanted.


Where are you getting that Yamato grew up with Jack from?
:choppawhat:



Where are you getting this from? Kaido treats Yamato as his son.

He taught her his fighting style:

Yamato's presence at the banquet was of such importance that King summoned the Tobi Roppo:




Kaido revealed that he had a special announcement involving Yamato:

The announcement was that he intends to make Yamato Shogun of New Onigashima:

Based on the Tobi Roppo's conversation (in particular Ulti's words), Kaido has regularly summoned them to help him handle issues involving Yamato:



On the other hand, Kaido only described Jack as "one of his most valued men":



Source for this.



  • Yamato did not grow up with Jack.
    • There is literally no indication for this.
  • A father vs son confrontation can give a very entertaining fight.
  • A father vs son confrontation can give us character growth.

As far as I can tell, your case for Yamato vs Jack is based on nothing but headcanon that is outright contradicted by the manga.
No indication... canonically Jack grew up in the beast pirates. Same as Yamato. They’re the same age. It’s not hard to add 1 and 1 to get two here.

Where does Jack refer to the beast pirates as family? He literally sees king and Queen as older brothers and refers to them as such.

Yamato’s presence at the party was just so that Kaido can announce that Yamato will be the next Shogun of Wano while Kaido takes his crew and leaves.

The narratively strongly suggests that Yamato would get neg diffed by Kaido. Yamato isn’t even strong enough to finish off a Tobi Roppo via cheap shot. Heck Yamato didn’t even weaken Ulti.

Yamato vs Kaido would be the lamest fight because Yamato is no where’s near strong enough to give Kaido a workout.

Try and make Yamato more impressive than they really are but currently they have yet to make themselves look that impressive.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
No indication... canonically Jack grew up in the beast pirates.
Do you have a source for this? I'd like to see it.

Where does Jack refer to the beast pirates as family? He literally sees king and Queen as older brothers and refers to them as such.
Okay, I think this is valid. Neither Jack nor King regarded any of the Tobi Roppo as Family though.

There is still the fact that Oda has been building up Yamato vs Kaido for 30 chapters while Yamato and Jack have not had any interactions.

The narratively strongly suggests that Yamato would get neg diffed by Kaido.
No, that's just your flawed interpretation.

Yamato isn’t even strong enough to finish off a Tobi Roppo via cheap shot. Heck Yamato didn’t even weaken Ulti.
Yamato KOed Ulti. She did much more damage to Ulti than Luffy did to Page One with an Elephant Gun uppercut.

Ulti recovered because she's an Ancient Zoan and recovering is what they do. Page One is going to recover from Linlin's punch.

Yamato vs Kaido would be the lamest fight because Yamato is no where’s near strong enough to give Kaido a workout.
No, you're just greatly underrating Yamato. Yamato is simply stronger than you're giving her credit for.

Try and make Yamato more impressive than they really are but currently they have yet to make themselves look that impressive.
Nah they have.

Yamato was depicted as superior to G3 Luffy in Base.


Tl;Dr: your headcanon that "Yamato is too weak" is not a counterargument against the narrative case for Yamato vs Kaido. Your headcanon is simply wrong.
 
Do you have a source for this? I'd like to see it.


Okay, I think this is valid. Neither Jack nor King regarded any of the Tobi Roppo as Family though.

There is still the fact that Oda has been building up Yamato vs Kaido for 30 chapters while Yamato and Jack have not had any interactions.


No, that's just your flawed interpretation.


Yamato KOed Ulti. She did much more damage to Ulti than Luffy did to Page One with an Elephant Gun uppercut.

Ulti recovered because she's an Ancient Zoan and recovering is what they do. Page One is going to recover from Linlin's punch.


No, you're just greatly underrating Yamato. Yamato is simply stronger than you're giving her credit for.


Nah they have.

Yamato was depicted as superior to G3 Luffy in Base.


Tl;Dr: your headcanon that "Yamato is too weak" is not a counterargument against the narrative case for Yamato vs Kaido. Your headcanon is simply wrong.
Jack - Confirmed to be with Kaido when he attacked Wano 20 years ago - Jack is 28 years old - Jack spent at least most of his life with Kaido.

Jack - refers to the others who's been there just as long if not longer as older brothers - Jack sees them as family.

Yamato KOing Ulti is like saying Luffy can one shot Don Sai with a gear 2 no named attack. Ulti was literally blindsided. And they'll get up but they'll be damaged for the rest of the night. Yamato didn't do any lasting damage. That simple.

Yamato isn't that strong bro. They're maybe calamity level but we haven't seen anything to make them appear any stronger.
 
Jack - Confirmed to be with Kaido when he attacked Wano 20 years ago - Jack is 28 years old - Jack spent at least most of his life with Kaido.

Jack - refers to the others who's been there just as long if not longer as older brothers - Jack sees them as family.

Yamato KOing Ulti is like saying Luffy can one shot Don Sai with a gear 2 no named attack. Ulti was literally blindsided. And they'll get up but they'll be damaged for the rest of the night. Yamato didn't do any lasting damage. That simple.

Yamato isn't that strong bro. They're maybe calamity level but we haven't seen anything to make them appear any stronger.
Ulti is so much more stronger than Sai...
If cheap shots don't matter than Apoo getting cheap shot by Zoro don't count.
Yamato knocked Ulti unconscious long enough for page one to be by her side and Yamato and Luffy long gone, and that's with the high recovery rate.
If we're overselling Yamato your certainly underselling her.
 
Ulti is so much more stronger than Sai...
If cheap shots don't matter than Apoo getting cheap shot by Zoro don't count.
Yamato knocked Ulti unconscious long enough for page one to be by her side and Yamato and Luffy long gone, and that's with the high recovery rate.
If we're overselling Yamato your certainly underselling her.
Yamato being Jack level is definitely not underselling.

And I don’t count Zoro and Apoo as a one shot. It wasn’t.
 

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𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Jack - Confirmed to be with Kaido when he attacked Wano 20 years ago
Yes, this is what I'm requesting the source for.

Yamato KOing Ulti is like saying Luffy can one shot Don Sai with a gear 2 no named attack.
He can.

Ulti was literally blindsided.
So was Pay Pay when Luffy landed the Elephant Gun on him.

Yamato didn't do any lasting damage. That simple.
Luffy couldn't even KO Pay Pay. Yet, he went on to match Kaido for "a few dozen minutes".

Yamato isn't that strong bro. They're maybe calamity level but we haven't seen anything to make them appear any stronger.
Yamato is above the Calamities.


Yamato being Jack level is definitely not underselling.
It is.

Base Yamato is above Ace (she was a match for him when they fought, and has had two more years to grow stronger after he died).
Hybrid Yamato should be considerably stronger than Ace.

There's also no reason for Yamato to be Jack level when she's fighting Kaido and not Jack.
 
Yamato being Jack level is definitely not underselling.

And I don’t count Zoro and Apoo as a one shot. It wasn’t.
But it is. If the Flying six can capture Yamato then that means that they can challenge anyone of the Calamities to a fight to win their position... not just Jack's.

You would be one of the few then on your side to think that.
 
Yes, this is what I'm requesting the source for.


He can.


So was Pay Pay when Luffy landed the Elephant Gun on him.


Luffy couldn't even KO Pay Pay. Yet, he went on to match Kaido for "a few dozen minutes".


Yamato is above the Calamities.
Literally see him in chapter 920. He's been with Kaido for more than 20 years.

Luffy was fighting Page One outright, Yamato sneak attacked Ulti

And you think Yamato being above Calamities, man I knew how bad you are at powerscaling but that ma be the worse take I've seen.
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But it is. If the Flying six can capture Yamato then that means that they can challenge anyone of the Calamities to a fight to win their position... not just Jack's.

You would be one of the few then on your side to think that.
It gives them the opportunity to fight a calamity. Doesn't mean they'd win.
 
Literally see him in chapter 920. He's been with Kaido for more than 20 years.

Luffy was fighting Page One outright, Yamato sneak attacked Ulti

And you think Yamato being above Calamities, man I knew how bad you are at powerscaling but that ma be the worse take I've seen.
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It gives them the opportunity to fight a calamity. Doesn't mean they'd win.
It doesn't mean they'd lose either.
Why would they set a goal like that if ultimately it would lead to nothing.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Luffy was fighting Page One outright, Yamato sneak attacked Ulti
I really don't think it makes a difference.

And you think Yamato being above Calamities, man I knew how bad you are at powerscaling but that ma be the worse take I've seen.
Most of my powerscaling takes have aged pretty well.

Literally see him in chapter 920. He's been with Kaido for more than 20 years.
Panel? I'm not saying that I don't believe you, I've simply never seen this before.
 
I really don't think it makes a difference.


Most of my powerscaling takes have aged pretty well.


Panel? I'm not saying that I don't believe you, I've simply never seen this before.
A sneak attack and a straight forward fight is pretty different.

And the flashback you see King Queen and Jack. It's mentioned in his Vivre Card as well.
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It doesn't mean they'd lose either.
Why would they set a goal like that if ultimately it would lead to nothing.
To reassert their strength against those who need to show them respect
 
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