I overhyped Adult Toshiro. Yama slaps the L Collector
EoS Kenpachi should beat Yamamoto. There’s too much feats and hype for Kenpachi to consider putting any version of Yama but Prime Yama above him and even then one can argue for the 10 year timeskip Kenpachi vs Prime Yama depending upon how much progress he made with that bankai.
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EoS Kenpachi should beat Yamamoto. There’s too much feats and hype for Kenpachi to consider putting any version of Yama but Prime Yama above him and even then one can argue for the 10 year timeskip Kenpachi vs Prime Yama depending upon how much progress he made with that bankai.
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I changed my mind about yama > Adult toshiro. It can go either way assuming it is unlimited adult toshiro
--Adult Toshiro fought superior opponent in volstandig gerard who is >> Base royd
--Volstanding gerard's shield + Blut >> Royd's blut which was surviving yama's heat. Royd was not even using his holy form
--Yama's biggest power up is his fire defense. His east is cqc attack and north also seems small in range.
--Hitsugaya have bigger range in comparison.
--If royd can withstand yama's heat which is weaker than volstandig giant gerard's shield then adult hitsugaya can freeze it
So by feats unlimited adult toshiro may beat yama
--Adult Toshiro fought superior opponent in volstandig gerard who is >> Base royd
--Volstanding gerard's shield + Blut >> Royd's blut which was surviving yama's heat. Royd was not even using his holy form
--Yama's biggest power up is his fire defense. His east is cqc attack and north also seems small in range.
--Hitsugaya have bigger range in comparison.
--If royd can withstand yama's heat which is weaker than volstandig giant gerard's shield then adult hitsugaya can freeze it
So by feats unlimited adult toshiro may beat yama
Anyone trying to powerscale Hitsugaya to Royd is a 4th level speedreader, to begin with, the Royd that fought Yamamoto is stronger than Hashwald, and as such, Barro the leader of the SS (stronger than Gerard) and Gerard, who’s only claim to fame is beating the vizards (wow…) and being a punching bag, who’s lucky Yhwach granted him death before he reached his limit, or that he didn’t fight kido experts like Kisuke, Mayuri or Shunsui that could seal him.
Quincies have fluctuating powers, you can see that by Yhwach’s Auswahlen, and how Askin, the weakest of the SS fared better than the others vs Nimaya before their power ups, Yhwach can adjust their strength, and, according to Opie, even their blut.
Something people forget is that Yamamoto was the one that pursued Royd, in order to do that, you need reiatsu sensing, if Royd was a normal ass captain level sternritter, this could not have worked, as Hashwald’s presence itself would foil the plan.
Royd is able to avoid getting oneshotted by a single nameless shikai attack, whereas a sternritter like Driscoll even after a power amp due to his shrift wasn’t able, but most importantly, humiliated Kenpachi much faster than Unohana, so much so that he didn’t even have the time, or better yet, capability to rise to his level.
Royd had Yhwach’s memories, which contain the capability to use and manipulate reishi in a quincy’s case, and Yhwach’s Auswahlen in order to make him formidable for the duration of the fight.
He was Yhwach bar shrift and volstanding, and Yhwach even lost the latter anyways. Just like Wonderweiss, able to react to Yamamoto’s punch before Aizen could even move his eyes, there’s a reason those guys were fought by him, and not other captains that would get ragdolled.
You could add Kenpachi and Byakuya to the roster and it would end with Byakuya crying that even with one hand his hakuda is better than his weak ass that could not stop a vice captain, Kenpachi would charge in like a retard only to be humiliated in the same way he was with Pernida, this time though, Mayuri cannot dispose of him like trash so that he could be saved from his own stupidity, and Hitsugaya realize that heat=/= fire, and that it doesn’t matter, because every single char he fought, was able to break free from his freezing.
One final thing, Hitsugaya wankers like to distort Shunsui’s statement, he said that Hitsugaya MIGHT be stronger than him in 100 years, that means that this is foremost a maybe, and, secondly, ageing does not mean just growing up, aged up Hitsugaya can use his bankai at his current fullest, he’s not a fucking time traveler, he doesn’t get new memories of him honing his skills, he’s still weaker, he had to get constant support in order to fight a glorified punching bag, after all, and Ichigo was shocked just by Shunsui’s reiatsu when he was pursuing Yhwach, no mentions of Hitsugaya or Zaraki.
Quincies have fluctuating powers, you can see that by Yhwach’s Auswahlen, and how Askin, the weakest of the SS fared better than the others vs Nimaya before their power ups, Yhwach can adjust their strength, and, according to Opie, even their blut.
Something people forget is that Yamamoto was the one that pursued Royd, in order to do that, you need reiatsu sensing, if Royd was a normal ass captain level sternritter, this could not have worked, as Hashwald’s presence itself would foil the plan.
Royd is able to avoid getting oneshotted by a single nameless shikai attack, whereas a sternritter like Driscoll even after a power amp due to his shrift wasn’t able, but most importantly, humiliated Kenpachi much faster than Unohana, so much so that he didn’t even have the time, or better yet, capability to rise to his level.
Royd had Yhwach’s memories, which contain the capability to use and manipulate reishi in a quincy’s case, and Yhwach’s Auswahlen in order to make him formidable for the duration of the fight.
He was Yhwach bar shrift and volstanding, and Yhwach even lost the latter anyways. Just like Wonderweiss, able to react to Yamamoto’s punch before Aizen could even move his eyes, there’s a reason those guys were fought by him, and not other captains that would get ragdolled.
You could add Kenpachi and Byakuya to the roster and it would end with Byakuya crying that even with one hand his hakuda is better than his weak ass that could not stop a vice captain, Kenpachi would charge in like a retard only to be humiliated in the same way he was with Pernida, this time though, Mayuri cannot dispose of him like trash so that he could be saved from his own stupidity, and Hitsugaya realize that heat=/= fire, and that it doesn’t matter, because every single char he fought, was able to break free from his freezing.
One final thing, Hitsugaya wankers like to distort Shunsui’s statement, he said that Hitsugaya MIGHT be stronger than him in 100 years, that means that this is foremost a maybe, and, secondly, ageing does not mean just growing up, aged up Hitsugaya can use his bankai at his current fullest, he’s not a fucking time traveler, he doesn’t get new memories of him honing his skills, he’s still weaker, he had to get constant support in order to fight a glorified punching bag, after all, and Ichigo was shocked just by Shunsui’s reiatsu when he was pursuing Yhwach, no mentions of Hitsugaya or Zaraki.
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--Gerard was an elite selected by Yhwach LOL and received as Auswählen powerup.
--Gaint gerard defeated RG Renji who destroyed powered up mask where base mask destroyed 2 captains. He also took out RG byakuya momentarily. Volstanding giant gerard > Giant gerard
--Askin's power lets him to take attacks like that lol
--Debating random things now about royd lol
--Volstanding giant gerard > Giant gerard > Royd COPE
--Gaint gerard defeated RG Renji who destroyed powered up mask where base mask destroyed 2 captains. He also took out RG byakuya momentarily. Volstanding giant gerard > Giant gerard
--Askin's power lets him to take attacks like that lol
--Debating random things now about royd lol
--Volstanding giant gerard > Giant gerard > Royd COPE
Kaidou in the name and a retard, what are the odds?
Yhwach giving an Auswahlen to both is an useless argument on your part, you’re trying to pretend that both Auswahlen are the same thing, no, that’s not how it works, Auswahlen is the redistribution of power, not the redistribution of a fixed quantity of power, Yhwach needed to fool Yamamoto, you only get that by having Royd comparable to Yhwach, not Gerard, unless you’re trying to argue Gerard is stronger than Yhwach.
Base Mask destroyed 2 vizards captains, correction, and even there, he only won because they spoke too soon, and said powers would only work if Rose didn’t talk, but he had to follow Shinji’s example with Bambietta and Aizen… not even gonna entertain your mention of Renji, as if he was a big shot.
Askin’s not the only one with special powers, and that’s not a power of his, it’s just him having large endurance, his durability is trash, as seen with Grimmjow and Yoruichi’s brother, Gerard wasn’t able to return, as he was presumably too weak to convert that attack in power reiatsu wise, nor Barro was able to survive three attacks in order to activate his eye, not to mention Pernida and all the stuff it has, no, at that moment, Askin was simply stronger than them.
Nothing random about Royd, you tried to powerscale Hitsugaya through Royd, I shut that down, the Royd that fought Yamamoto would merk adult Hitsu.
Yhwach giving an Auswahlen to both is an useless argument on your part, you’re trying to pretend that both Auswahlen are the same thing, no, that’s not how it works, Auswahlen is the redistribution of power, not the redistribution of a fixed quantity of power, Yhwach needed to fool Yamamoto, you only get that by having Royd comparable to Yhwach, not Gerard, unless you’re trying to argue Gerard is stronger than Yhwach.
Base Mask destroyed 2 vizards captains, correction, and even there, he only won because they spoke too soon, and said powers would only work if Rose didn’t talk, but he had to follow Shinji’s example with Bambietta and Aizen… not even gonna entertain your mention of Renji, as if he was a big shot.
Askin’s not the only one with special powers, and that’s not a power of his, it’s just him having large endurance, his durability is trash, as seen with Grimmjow and Yoruichi’s brother, Gerard wasn’t able to return, as he was presumably too weak to convert that attack in power reiatsu wise, nor Barro was able to survive three attacks in order to activate his eye, not to mention Pernida and all the stuff it has, no, at that moment, Askin was simply stronger than them.
Nothing random about Royd, you tried to powerscale Hitsugaya through Royd, I shut that down, the Royd that fought Yamamoto would merk adult Hitsu.
What does that prove? Maybe I like Yamamoto because he’s the character getting less clowned in a manga famous for trolling its characters? Perhaps you’re the one hating on him, when he got nothing but respect even by the main villains, let alone fodder subordinates like Hitsu or Gerard.
Where is the nonsensical power scaling, precisely? Can you even point it out? All you did is basically saying “Gerard>Royd” and adding a “cope” at the end, as if it solidified your one liners into something that could be considered serious.
Do tell, what is this serious powerscaling if mine is nonsensical, can you even reply on why
1) Yhwach says that only he is able to handle Yamamoto’s bankai, and, as seen by Driscoll, said bankai is even much much weaker than the normal one, how does that work for a weakling like Gerard, who has at least three quincies better than him, 4 in actuality with Pernida
2) why Ichigo is shocked by Shunsui’s reiatsu, and gave no fuck at adult Hitsugaya
3) why is Royd able to beat Zaraki more easily than Unohana, when his twin brother was humiliated by Zaraki himself
4) why Hitsugaya isn’t even able to manifest his reiatsu like Ichigo or Yamamoto, a badge of honor power wise, according by Yhwach?
5) Why was Yamamoto able to reiatsu sense Royd if he was a normal captain level sternritter?
6) if he was weaker than Hashwald, how the fuck did that not set alarm bells on Yamamoto
You’re trying to wank Hitsugaya to astronomical levels, against a guy that basically nullified passively his bankai, using the excuse of his adult form, as if it changes the very nature of his zanpakutou.
Where is the nonsensical power scaling, precisely? Can you even point it out? All you did is basically saying “Gerard>Royd” and adding a “cope” at the end, as if it solidified your one liners into something that could be considered serious.
Do tell, what is this serious powerscaling if mine is nonsensical, can you even reply on why
1) Yhwach says that only he is able to handle Yamamoto’s bankai, and, as seen by Driscoll, said bankai is even much much weaker than the normal one, how does that work for a weakling like Gerard, who has at least three quincies better than him, 4 in actuality with Pernida
2) why Ichigo is shocked by Shunsui’s reiatsu, and gave no fuck at adult Hitsugaya
3) why is Royd able to beat Zaraki more easily than Unohana, when his twin brother was humiliated by Zaraki himself
4) why Hitsugaya isn’t even able to manifest his reiatsu like Ichigo or Yamamoto, a badge of honor power wise, according by Yhwach?
5) Why was Yamamoto able to reiatsu sense Royd if he was a normal captain level sternritter?
6) if he was weaker than Hashwald, how the fuck did that not set alarm bells on Yamamoto
You’re trying to wank Hitsugaya to astronomical levels, against a guy that basically nullified passively his bankai, using the excuse of his adult form, as if it changes the very nature of his zanpakutou.
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--What has yhwach to do with base royd?? Royd can only copy his memories and looks
--Shunsui's bankai has big AOE effect lol.
--Again what has that to do with gerard? Royd >> Loyd is fine but that has nothing to do with gerard. Stop going off topic
--What does that even mean? Child hitsuagaya is nothing. We are talking about adult hitsugaya here who literally was fighting a stronger gerard than bankai kenny lmfao
--What has Hashwald to do with royd and gerard?
--Shunsui's bankai has big AOE effect lol.
--Again what has that to do with gerard? Royd >> Loyd is fine but that has nothing to do with gerard. Stop going off topic
--What does that even mean? Child hitsuagaya is nothing. We are talking about adult hitsugaya here who literally was fighting a stronger gerard than bankai kenny lmfao
--What has Hashwald to do with royd and gerard?
Do you even read other people’s post, or did you just rush in, angry because Hitsugaya’s wanking was challenged? If you want to insult and label posts as “nonsensical” powerscaling, you should, at the very least, read them.
Royd has Yhwach’s memories, that entails, his ability of manipulating reishi as a quincy, quincies are not shinigamies, you don’t need to train your soul for centuries for this ability, once you have the memories of Yhwach’s manipulation of reishi, which are special due to him having the memories of many fallen quincies, you can instinctively replicate that. That’s also besides the point, because any lacking of strength Royd has, Yhwach can make up for it with Auswahlen.
Shunsui’AOE has nothing to do with Ichigo sensing his reiatsu, after all, Ichigo is unaffected to begin with, it’s Hitsugaya not being strong enough
Royd>>Lloyd is possible, but that doesn’t matter, they could easily be equal, it doesn’t matter, in order to fool Yamamoto, Royd had to be comparable to Yhwach, or at the very least, stronger than Hashwald, the second strongest quincy, Auswahlen is the logical explanation, as we’ve seen it before, and even have comments like Opie saying that Yhwach can even adjust the strength of their blut (which you used as an example of Hitsugaya being able to survive the heat, because Gerard is apparently stronger because why… he’s a fucking elite sternritter after Royd died, yet Royd had a much more important task than fucking around with vizards and Renji), I’d find it appalling that Royd is comparable to Yhwach without Auswahlen but you do you.
Child Hitsu and adult Hitsu have the same powerset, adult Hitsu is just better, you try to apply the platonic concept of reality warping in a manga that has so few, hell, the only real reality warpers I could think of, it’s Shunsui and Gremmy, (actually, Gremmy is even debatable, as technically, he’s a quincy shaping things reishi), and that doesn’t make them the strongest characters, all the rest either use some kind of object, element and so on, to do their stuff, some of them have weird properties (like Yamamoto’s heat able to resurrect and control people, or Ichibei’s ink) but they still work to a specific rule, no, you cannot slap the word reality warper thinking that it makes them above everyone, child or adult, this is a hurdle that scientifically, and factually as seen in the first invasion, cannot be overwhelmed
Hashwald is the grandmaster of the sternritters, the second in command, and had as much power that Yhwach didn’t even give him an extra nudge through Auswahlen (though, it’s possible that the reason is that he, like Yhwach, is a special quincy with his whole giving and receiving power thing), if you want to say that Gerard is stronger than Royd, under the basis that he’s a rank higher, then people like Barro and Hashwald also apply, with them being superior.
Hashwald was close to Royd the entirety of the second invasion, if he was stronger than Royd, Yamamoto would not go at Royd via reiatsu sensing, and Yamamoto himself would notice that a fucking subordinate is much stronger than Yhwach, something’s strange is going on here.
Royd has Yhwach’s memories, that entails, his ability of manipulating reishi as a quincy, quincies are not shinigamies, you don’t need to train your soul for centuries for this ability, once you have the memories of Yhwach’s manipulation of reishi, which are special due to him having the memories of many fallen quincies, you can instinctively replicate that. That’s also besides the point, because any lacking of strength Royd has, Yhwach can make up for it with Auswahlen.
Shunsui’AOE has nothing to do with Ichigo sensing his reiatsu, after all, Ichigo is unaffected to begin with, it’s Hitsugaya not being strong enough
Royd>>Lloyd is possible, but that doesn’t matter, they could easily be equal, it doesn’t matter, in order to fool Yamamoto, Royd had to be comparable to Yhwach, or at the very least, stronger than Hashwald, the second strongest quincy, Auswahlen is the logical explanation, as we’ve seen it before, and even have comments like Opie saying that Yhwach can even adjust the strength of their blut (which you used as an example of Hitsugaya being able to survive the heat, because Gerard is apparently stronger because why… he’s a fucking elite sternritter after Royd died, yet Royd had a much more important task than fucking around with vizards and Renji), I’d find it appalling that Royd is comparable to Yhwach without Auswahlen but you do you.
Child Hitsu and adult Hitsu have the same powerset, adult Hitsu is just better, you try to apply the platonic concept of reality warping in a manga that has so few, hell, the only real reality warpers I could think of, it’s Shunsui and Gremmy, (actually, Gremmy is even debatable, as technically, he’s a quincy shaping things reishi), and that doesn’t make them the strongest characters, all the rest either use some kind of object, element and so on, to do their stuff, some of them have weird properties (like Yamamoto’s heat able to resurrect and control people, or Ichibei’s ink) but they still work to a specific rule, no, you cannot slap the word reality warper thinking that it makes them above everyone, child or adult, this is a hurdle that scientifically, and factually as seen in the first invasion, cannot be overwhelmed
Hashwald is the grandmaster of the sternritters, the second in command, and had as much power that Yhwach didn’t even give him an extra nudge through Auswahlen (though, it’s possible that the reason is that he, like Yhwach, is a special quincy with his whole giving and receiving power thing), if you want to say that Gerard is stronger than Royd, under the basis that he’s a rank higher, then people like Barro and Hashwald also apply, with them being superior.
Hashwald was close to Royd the entirety of the second invasion, if he was stronger than Royd, Yamamoto would not go at Royd via reiatsu sensing, and Yamamoto himself would notice that a fucking subordinate is much stronger than Yhwach, something’s strange is going on here.
Not to repeat myself, but thank you for your concession.
CFYOW makes it pretty clear that Yamamoto is > any captain except Kenpachi, but some might not consider that canon.
Using just the manga, you can make a pretty good argument that Toshiro is stronger, mostly because Yamamoto's ceiling was curb stomping Royd Lloyd, whereas Toshiro could do pretty well against Gerard who is much stronger than Royd.
Of course ignoring their strength specifically, there's a good chance Yamamoto's Bankai would have a similar effect on Toshiro's Adult Bankai as it does his regular one, which would make Yamamoto practically win by default.
Using just the manga, you can make a pretty good argument that Toshiro is stronger, mostly because Yamamoto's ceiling was curb stomping Royd Lloyd, whereas Toshiro could do pretty well against Gerard who is much stronger than Royd.
Of course ignoring their strength specifically, there's a good chance Yamamoto's Bankai would have a similar effect on Toshiro's Adult Bankai as it does his regular one, which would make Yamamoto practically win by default.
Here’s the thing, nowhere it’s stated that Gerard is stronger than Royd, it’s a fan assumption that creates several plotholes in Bleach, not only in powerscaling, since Royd is more impressive to every single quincies bar Yhwach, but Yamamoto sensed and pursued the reiatsu of a weak sternritter accompanied by Hashwald, the second strongest, and never questioned a thing.
You already have your answer through Yhwach’s comment on Yamamoto’s power, what with Gerard being a lowly subordinate of him.
And I have no idea what you’re on about the novels, the same novels that had Kenpachi excited to fight Grimmjow because he’s comparable to Nnoitra. Are you referring about Ikokomidoe? You do know he was comparable to Barragan before becoming an arrancar, and the only reason Yamamoto didn’t kill him was because he would destroy the cycle of reincarnation, so Ichibei and Nimaya had to seal him. Just asking, because there was an early (bad) translation of the novel that had this on Reddit, but surely, in 2023 nobody would use a fanmade translation, right? That aside, the novel wanked continuously Aizen and Yama’s reiatsu, not Ken or Hitsugaya, and Kenpachi didn’t even fight Iko at his full.
You already have your answer through Yhwach’s comment on Yamamoto’s power, what with Gerard being a lowly subordinate of him.
And I have no idea what you’re on about the novels, the same novels that had Kenpachi excited to fight Grimmjow because he’s comparable to Nnoitra. Are you referring about Ikokomidoe? You do know he was comparable to Barragan before becoming an arrancar, and the only reason Yamamoto didn’t kill him was because he would destroy the cycle of reincarnation, so Ichibei and Nimaya had to seal him. Just asking, because there was an early (bad) translation of the novel that had this on Reddit, but surely, in 2023 nobody would use a fanmade translation, right? That aside, the novel wanked continuously Aizen and Yama’s reiatsu, not Ken or Hitsugaya, and Kenpachi didn’t even fight Iko at his full.