Speculations Are all the Tobi Roppo Defeated (as of Chapter 1021)?

Which Tobi Roppo are permanently down?


  • Total voters
    110
#1
So we got like maybe as early as next chapter to have this discussion so I feel like it is worth having now.

Most of you know my opinions about this, so I'm going to stay out of it for the most part. But I'm making this thread to at least present everything in one thread since its a good time for everyone to discuss in one place.

So lets begin.



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Chapter 1011/Page One: Had a relatively awkward fight with Nami/Usopp up until this point, but defeated in one punch by Big Mom



- Interesting distinction to make is that while Page One had his body shown in 1012, and people did acknowledge he was hurt, you can see him twitching/struggling in the ground here. Could be he's just convulsing, or maybe not. Make of it what you will.



Another interesting distinction to make about Page One is that he is the only F6 member without named moves. Was he always meant to be fodderized? Or is he meant for more?

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Chapter 1013-1016/Ulti: Ulti is an interesting case. She is the only F6 member (thus far) to have been defeated multiple times (discounting her and P1's run in with Luffy and Yamato). Not only was she also hit by Big Mom in 1013, you can also see that she was knocked out plainly on the floor:





- Fodder acknowledges she is hurt. She is very clearly knocked out here at least for the time being, until 1016, where she gets back up and loses to Nami:



NOW, very important here is the fact that Bao Huang herself announced both Page 1 and Ulti are defeated on the next page:



Within the same page, we see the reactions from Sasaki, Whos Who and Black Maria. Conversely however, we don't see closeups of Ulti and Page 1's faces showing that they are done. Nami never gets a "victory" moment after defeating Ulti. Usopp didn't either for Page 1, in fact, Usopp really hasn't gotten anything lol.

Its interesting because it took Oda 6 chapters (1011-1016) to do this. And yet 2 chapters later....
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Chapter 1018/Who's Who: And here is where, in my opinion, things seem to get a little weird. If you followed what I was saying above, then this should make sense. Here is the last page we've seen so far of Jinbe/WsW. They haven't been shown again since:



- 1019 transitions immediately to Sanji and Zoro. No aftermath shown. No exposition of WsW's unconscious/defeated body. No closeup of his face. And yes, the above DOES look like a finishing move, that much is understood. Interesting observation is that Jinbe still looks like he's in battle mode here. There are also still plenty of questions left unanswered about WsW, his identity, and the relationship between the Sun Pirates, Jinbe and Nika. The eye symbol on his body relative to the Marys and Bao Huang

Then peculiarly enough, the same thing happens to Franky vs Sasaki.


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Chapter 1019/Sasaki
: This time however, it happens all within the same chapter. You can see the transition immediately following the attack:



- Its a bit different. A closeup of Sasaki's face, but no acknowledgement of victory. No instance of Sasaki laying defeated. The scene transitions immediately to Yamato after. Franky is relatively unhurt and usually has a full arsenal of weapons on his own person, not just the General. Again, make of it what you will.


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Chapter 1021/Black Maria: Now here's something interesting. The conclusion to Robin's fight actually plays out differently from Franky and Jinbe's. She gets the standard double spread finisher:



But Oda didn't transition from the fight immediately, she gets full closure:





With this you can very, very clearly see Black Maria has been defeated. Her subordinates react to her defeat, Robin reacts to winning ("I overdid it a bit"), and she can barely stand after. Compare this to Franky and Jinbe ^^

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So to summarize the alleged defeats:

1011: Page One
1016: Ulti
1018: WsW
1019: Sasaki
1021: Black Maria

One argument that can be made since Bao Huang only announced Page One's defeat 5 chapters after he was punched, WsW and Sasaki's defeats just weren't announced and will be in 1022 or 1023. I can understand that. The peculiar thing however is that Page One did get panel shots of him laying defeated (or twitching lol), while WsW and Sasaki did not. Can we use this as a basis to say they are done? Can we make the opposing argument?


So with that I conclude. Are they all down? Will some of them recover like Ulti/Page One/Jack has several times already? Do some of them have awakening? Is there a distinction going on for WsW and Sasaki? Are Page One and Ulti's defeats unorthodox too? Leave some thoughts.


edit: some tags...

 
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#6
Im sure Ulti and Blackmaria are sure done for.
I don´t know about Pageone, something is miss here and I hope he still face Usopp who get a powerup and beat him.
Same for WsW and Sasaki, you can clearly see that their battle was cut off without a clearly victory announcement like what Oda did with Ulti, Pageone and BM.

So my though.
My though:
WsW and Sasaki aren´t done, could show awakening power.

Not sure:
Pageone

Down for sure:
Black Maria
Ulti
 
#7
I’ll rank them from least likely to get up to most likely

1. Ulti - It makes perfect sense for her to be defeated
2. Black Maria - The only thing that doesn’t make sense is her never showing her other Zoan transformation. She is an illusionist, so there is a possibility that she’s playing dead to catch Robin off guard with her hybrid form
3. Sasaki - For the reasons you mentioned
4. Who’s Who - For the reasons you mentioned, and Brook needs a fight
5. Page One - P1 never showed us anything in this war. His sister got up from an attack from all 3 Homies, so why can’t he get up soon? Also, Usopp needs a fight
 
#11
Imagine it taking from April 26th to August 9th, four months, ten chapters, a full volumes worth, to defeat the tertiary villains of the arc, only for them to get back up again and for the entire process to repeat with the exact same ending of Strawhat beating Flying Six.

And this is only the Flying Six, we’ve still got the Calamities and Kaido to go. And assorted other fights.

Jesus, no.

They’re done, three of the fights were good, two were shit, it’s time to move on to other characters and other fights. If you want a villain to be defeated and brought back, it has to be done like Jack. There is no tension left in the Flying Six. Their villainous street creed is at rock bottom. It can’t be restored without dragging the arc out. Oda has not given any reason to care about them continuing to fight.
 

Jew D. Boy

I Can Go Lower
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#16

Seriously, though, which non-Luffy Straw Hats have ever, EVER had a fight that went longer than one round?? Even in a Yonko’s crew, these guys aren’t so indestructible that they’re liable to pop up after these finisher panels we’ve been getting. There’s plenty of other shit that needs to be addressed by the end of the act, we don’t need to slow down for a full Flying Six redux.
 
#17
Imagine it taking from April 26th to August 9th, four months, ten chapters, a full volumes worth, to defeat the tertiary villains of the arc, only for them to get back up again and for the entire process to repeat with the exact same ending of Strawhat beating Flying Six.

And this is only the Flying Six, we’ve still got the Calamities and Kaido to go. And assorted other fights.

Jesus, no.

They’re done, three of the fights were good, two were shit, it’s time to move on to other characters and other fights. If you want a villain to be defeated and brought back, it has to be done like Jack. There is no tension left in the Flying Six. Their villainous street creed is at rock bottom. It can’t be restored without dragging the arc out. Oda has not given any reason to care about them continuing to fight.
Seriously, maybe some wouldn’t care because they’re super hardcore fans but most fans don’t want to someone who’s trash fight again. Page One has been a punching bag this entire time, Who’s Who got demolished by Jinbe and Sasaki literally kamikazed because he couldn’t do much

No amount of writing will make these fights interesting to most. Shit if Ulti and Page one get back up at that point we’ll most likely be rooting for them just due to how resilient they are
 
#20
After the TS, any location in which the SHs were located was in immediate danger from some imminent threat. People were in great danger.
FI - Noah
PH - Cesar's gas
DR - Bird Cage
WCI - BM herself
Wano - Onigashima? If so, it didn't even reach the capital.
The point is that at first Oda designates an imminent universal threat, and only then puts opponents against each other or completes the fights. At the moment there were only two designations of opponents:
Jimbei vs W'sW
Robin vs BM
Well, 3:
Four Emperors vs New Generation
About BM.
It looks like she's been knocked out. But it has two heads(There should be a reason, not only visual, I hope). And the spider head does not have a neck, there is a head-trunk at once. He was knocked out due to shock, but was not physically injured. Perhaps this will play a role, and she will become again, only Zoan will have control, purely instincts, like those awakened in ID.
If Oda deviates from his template this time, well, it will be something new. But we talking about Oda, so I strongly doubt it.
 
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