Character Discussion Are there any good-faith arguments for Nami being the left hand/unofficial general instead of Sanji?
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Zoro and Sanji are wings, thats why they hold up on tough situations, none of them just sits there hearing orders from the other one, but either one of them step up and the other does the same or they just hold up different things at the same time.
A good example of that is the whole "Luffy vs Usopp" situation, Zoro and Sanji both have their role on containing the situation.
A good example of that is the whole "Luffy vs Usopp" situation, Zoro and Sanji both have their role on containing the situation.
The implication in the title that saying Nami is equal and opposite of Zoro, and it is her that is the left hand, isn’t “good faith,” is kind of ridiculous.
Zoro and Nami are the two most featured crew members. Whenever there’s a big issue with the crew, it’s Zoro and Nami who are highlighted.
It was Luffy, Zoro, and Nami that met Blackbeard for the first time on Jaya.
When Robin disappeared, it was Luffy, Zoro, and Nami that primarily discussed what to do next in the rooftop of the hotel.
When it was time to bring Usopp back, it was Zoro vs Nami with regard to how it should be handled.
The two most focused reactions to all of the events at Marineford, and the two with the longest exposition thereafter, were Zoro and Nami.
On Punk Hazard, it was Zoro who told Luffy he needed to get his stuff together, and it was Nami who was present for the creation of an alliance with a Warlord that would overthrow a Yonko.
It was Zoro who stayed with Luffy in Dressrosa and Nami who told Luffy what the next step would be (whereas Sanji merely asked permission to attack Big Mom’s ship. Meanwhile, on Zou, Sanji actually questioned whether or not they should help the Minks and Nami overruled him, much like she did on Punk Hazard).
On Zou, it was Zoro vs Nami with regard to how they should handle Sanji’s defection, and it was Luffy, Zoro (who snuck to the outside) and Nami, who were informed of what really happened by Pekoms.
It was Nami who was Luffy’s second in WCI, while Zoro was the one who waited in Wano. It was Nami who reaffirmed her loyalty to Luffy under torture, and Zoro who stood behind Luffy against a Yonko.
If anything, the suggestion that Nami isn’t the left hand is the bad faith argument, as she’s been called the “internal captain,” iirc, has been pointed out by Oda as one of the three most important characters in the series, alongside Luffy and Zoro, is the heroine, and has the second most screen time. The only reason she’s not seen that way is because a large portion of this fanbase is ridiculously trashy in how they value strength primarily to the exclusion of all else, and desperately need to give Sanji a role that isn’t his so that they can keep their monster trio obsession alive.
If Nami was a dude and was a bit stronger, this wouldn’t be a question. But she’s a woman and not particularly physically strong, and this fanbase can’t handle that.
Zoro and Nami are the two most featured crew members. Whenever there’s a big issue with the crew, it’s Zoro and Nami who are highlighted.
It was Luffy, Zoro, and Nami that met Blackbeard for the first time on Jaya.
When Robin disappeared, it was Luffy, Zoro, and Nami that primarily discussed what to do next in the rooftop of the hotel.
When it was time to bring Usopp back, it was Zoro vs Nami with regard to how it should be handled.
The two most focused reactions to all of the events at Marineford, and the two with the longest exposition thereafter, were Zoro and Nami.
On Punk Hazard, it was Zoro who told Luffy he needed to get his stuff together, and it was Nami who was present for the creation of an alliance with a Warlord that would overthrow a Yonko.
It was Zoro who stayed with Luffy in Dressrosa and Nami who told Luffy what the next step would be (whereas Sanji merely asked permission to attack Big Mom’s ship. Meanwhile, on Zou, Sanji actually questioned whether or not they should help the Minks and Nami overruled him, much like she did on Punk Hazard).
On Zou, it was Zoro vs Nami with regard to how they should handle Sanji’s defection, and it was Luffy, Zoro (who snuck to the outside) and Nami, who were informed of what really happened by Pekoms.
It was Nami who was Luffy’s second in WCI, while Zoro was the one who waited in Wano. It was Nami who reaffirmed her loyalty to Luffy under torture, and Zoro who stood behind Luffy against a Yonko.
If anything, the suggestion that Nami isn’t the left hand is the bad faith argument, as she’s been called the “internal captain,” iirc, has been pointed out by Oda as one of the three most important characters in the series, alongside Luffy and Zoro, is the heroine, and has the second most screen time. The only reason she’s not seen that way is because a large portion of this fanbase is ridiculously trashy in how they value strength primarily to the exclusion of all else, and desperately need to give Sanji a role that isn’t his so that they can keep their monster trio obsession alive.
If Nami was a dude and was a bit stronger, this wouldn’t be a question. But she’s a woman and not particularly physically strong, and this fanbase can’t handle that.
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Sanji was useless in containing the Luffy vs Usopp situation.
-starting with the fight against Aokiji, him and Usopp start fighting over leaving Luffy behind and Zoro needs to intervene to shut the pair of them up. This is where Usopp’s insecurity that leads to the fight really starts
-him and Nami both try to intervene in the argument between Luffy and Usopp and neither can stop the fight from happening
-tries to blame Zoro for the Franky Family attacking Usopp
-tries to stop Chopper from going out to Usopp after the fight and Chopper ignores him
-when it comes to Usopp coming back all he does is agree with Zoro
It’s actually an area where it can be argued Nami was more of a “left hand man”, because she at least took her own stance and tried to argue her case, which was opposite of Zoro, as opposed to Sanji, whi really just piggybacked onto what Zoro said at the end. Sanji was not especially important in the Usopp situation.
-starting with the fight against Aokiji, him and Usopp start fighting over leaving Luffy behind and Zoro needs to intervene to shut the pair of them up. This is where Usopp’s insecurity that leads to the fight really starts
-him and Nami both try to intervene in the argument between Luffy and Usopp and neither can stop the fight from happening
-tries to blame Zoro for the Franky Family attacking Usopp
-tries to stop Chopper from going out to Usopp after the fight and Chopper ignores him
-when it comes to Usopp coming back all he does is agree with Zoro
It’s actually an area where it can be argued Nami was more of a “left hand man”, because she at least took her own stance and tried to argue her case, which was opposite of Zoro, as opposed to Sanji, whi really just piggybacked onto what Zoro said at the end. Sanji was not especially important in the Usopp situation.
There is a lot of this going on. The traditional mold puts Nami somewhere in the back and it's what people think "because that's how it works."
Nami was the second person recruited because she was needed. They could afford to wait until after Usopp to get a cook, but chapter 22 emphasized that the two guys were basically just getting by on luck without her.
And yeah, if she speaks up SANJI of all people is the most likely to defer.
Did they stop sailing? Their journey depends on her skill as a navigator. For all the people pointing to Sanji "taking lead" when they departed for Zou, it's not like he got there without her.
Nami was the second person recruited because she was needed. They could afford to wait until after Usopp to get a cook, but chapter 22 emphasized that the two guys were basically just getting by on luck without her.
And yeah, if she speaks up SANJI of all people is the most likely to defer.
Did they stop sailing? Their journey depends on her skill as a navigator. For all the people pointing to Sanji "taking lead" when they departed for Zou, it's not like he got there without her.
Nami and Sanji have different roles within the crew. Sanji handles external threats like Capone Bege or BMP. Nami acts like internal captain
It is like a traditional families from the old times where the father and then his eldest sons represent the family to the outsiders but when it comes to the internal politics of the family the mother's words are second only to that of the father. This could be seen in how Oda often likes to depict her as a queen next to Luffy the king in cover pages with the rest of the crew surrounding them. Nami represents the feminine presence inside the crew
This dynamic is well displayed in Zou where Nami decides on her own without asking her crewmates that they will save the Minks, you will never see Chopper, Robin, or even Sanji speak for the whole crew like that. Even when Franky asked Luffy to help the Tontattas he said I will help them but he never spoke for the crew. When Bege and Pekoms arrived at Zou, Sanji handled the situation because he is the second oldest son who protects them when the father and the oldest brother are not present. Knowing how the Sanji fans debated wing vs wings for thousands of comments, imagine what would have happened if Sanji was ever portrayed as the internal captain of the crew, they would have claimed he is above Zoro in hierarchy and Luffy's equal
It is like a traditional families from the old times where the father and then his eldest sons represent the family to the outsiders but when it comes to the internal politics of the family the mother's words are second only to that of the father. This could be seen in how Oda often likes to depict her as a queen next to Luffy the king in cover pages with the rest of the crew surrounding them. Nami represents the feminine presence inside the crew
This dynamic is well displayed in Zou where Nami decides on her own without asking her crewmates that they will save the Minks, you will never see Chopper, Robin, or even Sanji speak for the whole crew like that. Even when Franky asked Luffy to help the Tontattas he said I will help them but he never spoke for the crew. When Bege and Pekoms arrived at Zou, Sanji handled the situation because he is the second oldest son who protects them when the father and the oldest brother are not present. Knowing how the Sanji fans debated wing vs wings for thousands of comments, imagine what would have happened if Sanji was ever portrayed as the internal captain of the crew, they would have claimed he is above Zoro in hierarchy and Luffy's equal
You're not right on this Aokiji thing, the whole fight starts with getting another boat, Usopp's insecurity is totally on his own, nobody could stop him from that.
Sanji is like the most important crewmate on preventing Usopp to leave and give him self confidence, "You do what i can't do right now" "Everyone has limitations" "You can be useful to save Robin". Not to mention everything he did to save Robin while Luffy and Zoro were stuck in chimneys, including rescueing Usopp and Franky from the CP-9 train and leading the situation, even making a call to warn Luffy.
Everything you said literally makes no difference, has no correlation or even makes a point. So Sanji kicking Luffy's face means he wasn't trying to contain the situation and show his authority within the crew?
If he just sit there watching then it would fit the "Left Hand" role better, like Zoro did?
So Sanji is the only one who surprisingly agrees with Zoro, who is like the guy who praises Luffy the most for him being idiot most of the time, and makes clear for everyone that what Zoro said makes sense at some moment, but Nami is the "Left Hand" because she opposes Zoro and Sanji somehow but does literally nothing to show how much she is supposedly right, but instead gets instantly convinced by Sanji when he says Zoro is right???
If thats the case i guess Nami is the Left Hand because she simply gaves her opinion at some moments, even being led by Sanji/Zoro many other moments.
According to some people here, when Zoro gaves his speech about the Usopp's situation, it means Zoro is actually the Captain because it looks like he overruled Luffy LoL.
Nami is smart, she can smart at some moments, but if someone agrees with her point of view, it automatically means she "overruled" the Captain and everyone else?
Is that all it's necessary?
I think being a "Left Hand" goes much beyond that, Nami has authority and everyone respects, but that cuz she is smart, although in most cases who makes the most decisive choices, takes care of the biggest matters and do what Luffy can't are always Zoro and Sanji.
Sanji is like the most important crewmate on preventing Usopp to leave and give him self confidence, "You do what i can't do right now" "Everyone has limitations" "You can be useful to save Robin". Not to mention everything he did to save Robin while Luffy and Zoro were stuck in chimneys, including rescueing Usopp and Franky from the CP-9 train and leading the situation, even making a call to warn Luffy.
Everything you said literally makes no difference, has no correlation or even makes a point. So Sanji kicking Luffy's face means he wasn't trying to contain the situation and show his authority within the crew?
If he just sit there watching then it would fit the "Left Hand" role better, like Zoro did?
So Sanji is the only one who surprisingly agrees with Zoro, who is like the guy who praises Luffy the most for him being idiot most of the time, and makes clear for everyone that what Zoro said makes sense at some moment, but Nami is the "Left Hand" because she opposes Zoro and Sanji somehow but does literally nothing to show how much she is supposedly right, but instead gets instantly convinced by Sanji when he says Zoro is right???
If thats the case i guess Nami is the Left Hand because she simply gaves her opinion at some moments, even being led by Sanji/Zoro many other moments.
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According to some people here, when Zoro gaves his speech about the Usopp's situation, it means Zoro is actually the Captain because it looks like he overruled Luffy LoL.
Nami is smart, she can smart at some moments, but if someone agrees with her point of view, it automatically means she "overruled" the Captain and everyone else?
Is that all it's necessary?
I think being a "Left Hand" goes much beyond that, Nami has authority and everyone respects, but that cuz she is smart, although in most cases who makes the most decisive choices, takes care of the biggest matters and do what Luffy can't are always Zoro and Sanji.
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To me it's not talking about "hands" you play as if it's about being alpha or one upping the other. Nami is someone who can argue but also agree when she feels it's wise, because she's not a meathead. In Luffy vs Usopp she's the one who confronts Luffy and keeps a cool head when he doesn't listen, then steps in when tempers flare between Zoro and Sanji. When it comes to stuff like dealing with Capone, she doesn't have to flex when she's not in her element.
A lot of putting Sanji over Nami in relevance involves just going with him because he's tough and bold. If you want to assert that Zoro and Sanji are hands then she's the brain.
A lot of putting Sanji over Nami in relevance involves just going with him because he's tough and bold. If you want to assert that Zoro and Sanji are hands then she's the brain.
The EB5 are all vital, Zoro and Sanji are the wings/arms And legs/whatever. Theyre strong and the people follow where they take them.
Nami is the brain of the operations. She plots the routes and gives opinions on direction.
Usopp is the heart. He’s the only straw hat who has been able to inspire even Luffy and get him to surpass his limits.
Nami is the brain of the operations. She plots the routes and gives opinions on direction.
Usopp is the heart. He’s the only straw hat who has been able to inspire even Luffy and get him to surpass his limits.
nami's gonna get an extended arc where she gets all the spotlight when the crew finally navigates their way to laughtale (being the crew member associated with treasure and associated with navigation). then we're gonna see a lot of feathers rustle regarding this conversation.
even in the chapter 1000 cover page:
luffy, zoro and nami are the main protagonists of this story. add sanji and usopp and you get the core group of strawhats. oda gives a lot of room to shine for sanji when it comes to fights and for usopp when it comes to gags. but the protagonists have been very clearly established since the start of the series.
even in the chapter 1000 cover page:
luffy, zoro and nami are the main protagonists of this story. add sanji and usopp and you get the core group of strawhats. oda gives a lot of room to shine for sanji when it comes to fights and for usopp when it comes to gags. but the protagonists have been very clearly established since the start of the series.
I think "brain" fits perfectly what she is, because thats literally what she does, she doesn't have more overall authority and leadership than Luffy, Zoro and Sanji BUT at some moments she steps up to them and helps them to make better decisions, discard some of them or just gives her point of view (it doesn't mean they will agree with her tho), she definitely has a imponent personality within the crew, but it doesn't go beyond that.
Well I don't know if Usopp is the only one to inspire Luffy. I think they all motivate the shit out of him. I think the emotional spikes in watching the duel with Mihawk or during his speech to Arlong are just as important as Usopp yelling at him when Lucci had him down, for example.
I also don't think she's limited to a "personality within the crew." They pretty much have the best shipwright and helmsman but both of those roles are worthless without cartography and navigation. Nami makes the difference between seeing a sky island or not (without losing anyone, btw ). She was the only one with a useful question for Rayleigh.
All of the pirates and sailors they run into have been on the seas for much longer, they catch up and surpass because of superior sailing amongst a few other things.
I also don't think she's limited to a "personality within the crew." They pretty much have the best shipwright and helmsman but both of those roles are worthless without cartography and navigation. Nami makes the difference between seeing a sky island or not (without losing anyone, btw ). She was the only one with a useful question for Rayleigh.
All of the pirates and sailors they run into have been on the seas for much longer, they catch up and surpass because of superior sailing amongst a few other things.
I am right
The only person using any sense and showing any leadership there in Luffy’s absence is Zoro. Sanji and Usopp shouting at each other did no good for the crew, or for Usopp’s self-esteem.
He failed miserably in stopping Usopp leaving though. All he did was kick Luffy in the face and shout at Zoro. He accomplished no more and no less than any other Strawhat in that argument.
This certainly was a great Sanji moment that helped Usopp get some self-esteem.
But it didn’t have anything to do with Luffy, or Luffy and Usopp‘s argument, or the discussion over whether to let Usopp back on to the crew, which is the point of this discussion.
Same as above. Great Sanji moment, nothing really to do with the topic at hand
Sanji kicking Luffy’s face did nothing other than… kicking Luffy in the face. The damage between Luffy and Usopp had already been done, Luffy had already told Usopp to leave if he didn’t agree, Usopp still challenged Luffy to a fight, and everything went to shit.
He could have done what Nami did and try and reason with Luffy, to try and call the fight off. Would have been something productive. Instead he just starts a pointless argument with Zoro.
And Zoro then picked up the pieces after the fight and provided Luffy with the support he needed. That’s the difference between the relationship Luffy has with Zoro/Nami compared to Sanji, in that whole argument. They’re actually the ones who really talk to each other.
A similar situation then comes on Zou when Sanji has left, only this time, Luffy listens to Nami instead of Zoro. But it’s the same dynamic between the three, Zoro makes an argument based on cold hard fact, Nami makes to a more heartfelt, emotional appeal.
The only person using any sense and showing any leadership there in Luffy’s absence is Zoro. Sanji and Usopp shouting at each other did no good for the crew, or for Usopp’s self-esteem.
He failed miserably in stopping Usopp leaving though. All he did was kick Luffy in the face and shout at Zoro. He accomplished no more and no less than any other Strawhat in that argument.
This certainly was a great Sanji moment that helped Usopp get some self-esteem.
But it didn’t have anything to do with Luffy, or Luffy and Usopp‘s argument, or the discussion over whether to let Usopp back on to the crew, which is the point of this discussion.
Same as above. Great Sanji moment, nothing really to do with the topic at hand
Sanji kicking Luffy’s face did nothing other than… kicking Luffy in the face. The damage between Luffy and Usopp had already been done, Luffy had already told Usopp to leave if he didn’t agree, Usopp still challenged Luffy to a fight, and everything went to shit.
He could have done what Nami did and try and reason with Luffy, to try and call the fight off. Would have been something productive. Instead he just starts a pointless argument with Zoro.
And Zoro then picked up the pieces after the fight and provided Luffy with the support he needed. That’s the difference between the relationship Luffy has with Zoro/Nami compared to Sanji, in that whole argument. They’re actually the ones who really talk to each other.
A similar situation then comes on Zou when Sanji has left, only this time, Luffy listens to Nami instead of Zoro. But it’s the same dynamic between the three, Zoro makes an argument based on cold hard fact, Nami makes to a more heartfelt, emotional appeal.
I am right
The only person using any sense and showing any leadership there in Luffy’s absence is Zoro. Sanji and Usopp shouting at each other did no good for the crew, or for Usopp’s self-esteem.
He failed miserably in stopping Usopp leaving though. All he did was kick Luffy in the face and shout at Zoro. He accomplished no more and no less than any other Strawhat in that argument.
This certainly was a great Sanji moment that helped Usopp get some self-esteem.
But it didn’t have anything to do with Luffy, or Luffy and Usopp‘s argument, or the discussion over whether to let Usopp back on to the crew, which is the point of this discussion.
Same as above. Great Sanji moment, nothing really to do with the topic at hand
Sanji kicking Luffy’s face did nothing other than… kicking Luffy in the face. The damage between Luffy and Usopp had already been done, Luffy had already told Usopp to leave if he didn’t agree, Usopp still challenged Luffy to a fight, and everything went to shit.
He could have done what Nami did and try and reason with Luffy, to try and call the fight off. Would have been something productive. Instead he just starts a pointless argument with Zoro.
And Zoro then picked up the pieces after the fight and provided Luffy with the support he needed. That’s the difference between the relationship Luffy has with Zoro/Nami compared to Sanji, in that whole argument. They’re actually the ones who really talk to each other.
A similar situation then comes on Zou when Sanji has left, only this time, Luffy listens to Nami instead of Zoro. But it’s the same dynamic between the three, Zoro makes an argument based on cold hard fact, Nami makes to a more heartfelt, emotional appeal.
The only person using any sense and showing any leadership there in Luffy’s absence is Zoro. Sanji and Usopp shouting at each other did no good for the crew, or for Usopp’s self-esteem.
He failed miserably in stopping Usopp leaving though. All he did was kick Luffy in the face and shout at Zoro. He accomplished no more and no less than any other Strawhat in that argument.
This certainly was a great Sanji moment that helped Usopp get some self-esteem.
But it didn’t have anything to do with Luffy, or Luffy and Usopp‘s argument, or the discussion over whether to let Usopp back on to the crew, which is the point of this discussion.
Same as above. Great Sanji moment, nothing really to do with the topic at hand
Sanji kicking Luffy’s face did nothing other than… kicking Luffy in the face. The damage between Luffy and Usopp had already been done, Luffy had already told Usopp to leave if he didn’t agree, Usopp still challenged Luffy to a fight, and everything went to shit.
He could have done what Nami did and try and reason with Luffy, to try and call the fight off. Would have been something productive. Instead he just starts a pointless argument with Zoro.
And Zoro then picked up the pieces after the fight and provided Luffy with the support he needed. That’s the difference between the relationship Luffy has with Zoro/Nami compared to Sanji, in that whole argument. They’re actually the ones who really talk to each other.
A similar situation then comes on Zou when Sanji has left, only this time, Luffy listens to Nami instead of Zoro. But it’s the same dynamic between the three, Zoro makes an argument based on cold hard fact, Nami makes to a more heartfelt, emotional appeal.
Pretty pointless and vague argues.
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While I agree, you can also make the argument that Sanji didn't need to speak up because he already agreed with Zoro & his way of thinking. It makes sense because in WCI Sanji said it himself that he couldn't come back to the crew because of what he did to Luffy. Sanji & Zoro had the same mindset in Enies Lobby so only one needed to speak on it while Nami was there to provide a different perspective just so the readers could see both sides.
In the end Luffy agrees to Zoro's decision while everyone else had to accept it.
It just shows that when it's a serious situation that Zoro and Sanji can both understand its severity & see eye to eye without any bickering.
You can argue Sanji isn't important in that moment but the fact Sanji didn't even try to take Nami's side shows that he believes Usopp shouldn't just come back like nothing happened. He held himself to that very same standard in WCI.
In the end Luffy agrees to Zoro's decision while everyone else had to accept it.
It just shows that when it's a serious situation that Zoro and Sanji can both understand its severity & see eye to eye without any bickering.
You can argue Sanji isn't important in that moment but the fact Sanji didn't even try to take Nami's side shows that he believes Usopp shouldn't just come back like nothing happened. He held himself to that very same standard in WCI.