Powers & Abilities Between ''Haki is everything'' and '' mythical zoan is the rarest fruit'', which of the phrases was more of a lie???

[grey matter]

Both are true.

Even all top tiers without conquerors (like admirals for example) are haki masters with advanced armament and likely advanced observation. Without that, admirals would be like Enel and cap out at commander level.

We are so far into the story, so it makes sense that mythical DFs are popping out more.
This reminds me of the argument people were making against Conqueror's haki that only one in millions have it. That's still true, just that we come to see more of them since we are getting closer to the end, characters who reach that stage will be more likely to have it.

 

[kom5]

Luffy would have died without his fruit even despite his haki.

Counting current arc + wano act 3, we´ve already seen 4 mythical zoans and counting.

Which brings the question: which of the phrase is faker? which of them got more retconned by oda???

the funny thing is that he says haki is everything and in the same arc BM adv coa and adv coc loses to base haki Law and Kid

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Haki is everything is more of the lie. As oda keeps adding more and more power systems. It was clear that this was just an opinion of Kaido and not fact of the manga.

There’s still less Mythical Zoans of any others. But there have been too many imo.

 

[Santoryu D Bazooka]

wasnt it ' haki transcends all ' ?
these 2 sentences can easily have different meanings
haki surpassing everything means haki is the strongest ability in the verse , which i dont think is wrong .

' haki is everything ' can mean that only haki is the most relevant ability and other abilities like awakening is irrelevant which is not true at all

Well Kaido ended that conversation by stating that Roger made it all the way to the top because of Haki.

Take that as you well.

But if you were to ask me for my opinion i would say. DF belong in the same tier as martial arts/swordmanship/technology and Haki evens the play field for everything hence "Surpass all" "Everything".

But honestly who knows.. Oda will answer everything sooner or later. And we have to remember its Kaido we are discussing here and Villains tends to be mistaken.

 

[vikas]

Mythical zoan fact is BS...same as how DF were a rare thing in early east blue times.

Haki statement is correct though. Its always the reason for something which we have questions for.

 

[ShadowStyle369]

taking kaidos words until proven wrong lol haki transcends all... the ultimate power for now at least

 

[Junatic]

There's a diff b/w "myth Zoan are the rarest DFs" and "myth Zoan are extremely rare". The former statement still holds true to this day and it's what was actually said, right? But it's true some chars didn't need a myth Zoan. Givin one to Stronger or Onimaru was unnecessary and detrimental to the uniqueness of this type of DFs.

As for the statement abt haki, I thik it's even truer. Haki is rly everything, I'd even argue it became too important and prevalent and it created a lot of problems in the story.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Mythical zoans: orochi,kaido,luffy,devon,monster,yamato
marco
Logias:akainu aramaki aokiji crocodile enel monet kizaru sabo bb caribou

Haki is everything is not cap

Lmao, mythical zoans are still less than Logia and Paramecia which is the point.

 

[ShadowStyle369]

Lmao, mythical zoans are still less than Logia and Paramecia which is the point.

The only people that believe haki over everything is a lie is sanji fans because u guys want to keep zoros and Sanji close… shanks fans to a degree because it’s also the reason mihawk is over shanks

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

The only people that believe haki over everything is a lie is sanji fans because u guys want to keep zoros and Sanji close… shanks fans to a degree because it’s also the reason mihawk is over shanks

Nah, I don't have that kind of mindset. But Zoans being the rarest which is true. Haki being the endgame of everything is more questionable.

 

[vikas]

Lmao, mythical zoans are still less than Logia and Paramecia which is the point.

12 Logia, around 10 Mythical(if we include momo as separate...we have to since in the end it is being used and is only a copy because of plot.)...we don't call that rare devil fruit. It was just to hype.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

12 Logia, around 10 Mythical(if we include momo as separate...we have to since in the end it is being used and is only a copy because of plot.)...we don't call that rare devil fruit. It was just to hype.

Bruh, Kizaru stated that Logia is also rare. But mythical zoans are even rarer than Logia.

 

[ShadowStyle369]

Nah, I don't have that kind of mindset. But Zoans being the rarest which is true. Haki being the endgame of everything is more questionable.

I get it but at the same time roger is proof

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

I get it but at the same time roger is proof

Yes Roger is outstanding for that.

 

[ShadowStyle369]

Yes Roger is outstanding for that.

Exactly haki/willpower is the strongest don’t get me wrong I do think even sanji will be one of those people, but as it stands nobody at the moment will be over luffy and Zoro in willpower even with luffy being a df user his haki shines the most

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Mythical Zoans are still the rarest fruits, and without Haki, Luffy wouldn't have defeated Kaido, even with Awakening.

Where's the lie?

 

[Lor D. Coast]

CoC is a 1 in a million ability and we know more CoC users than awakened zoans but we also know that awakening a zoan is nothing special. Just say you don't like that of haki > everything is a thing.

 

[Blackbeard]

Luffy would have died without his fruit even despite his haki.

Counting current arc + wano act 3, we´ve already seen 4 mythical zoans and counting.

Which brings the question: which of the phrase is faker? which of them got more retconned by oda???

This misconception of Haki being an exclusive power that can't coexist with devil fruits sparked ever since Kaido's comment about Roger, when in reality it was just to show that Haki is an open-ended booster for one's fighting style.

DFs, blades, guns, all are tools that can be used in conjunction with Haki. It's like saying building muscle is better than mastering swordsmanship, when there's nothing stopping one from doing both.

 

[zenox]

Well Kaido ended that conversation by stating that Roger made it all the way to the top because of Haki.

Take that as you well.

But if you were to ask me for my opinion i would say. DF belong in the same tier as martial arts/swordmanship/technology and Haki evens the play field for everything hence "Surpass all" "Everything".

But honestly who knows.. Oda will answer everything sooner or later. And we have to remember its Kaido we are discussing here and Villains tends to be mistaken.

Well ofc , u can’t get to the top with devil fruits or any other power alone , whereas with haki alone u can reach that ceiling
Haki is the best ability in the verse and I don’t think this can be debunked since there are literally 0 toptiers without haki but there are toptiers who rely solely on haki

Haki is not a fighting style imo , it’s an ability which enhances those styles
For eg what u mentioned
devil fruits , swordsmanship , martial arts
These are fighting styles
Haki basically enhances these things , like how wb used haki in his gura attacks to make it more devastating and how kaido coated himself with acoc in flaming bagua
In swordsmanship , there is zoro
In martial arts , there is luffy
Tho haki can sometimes be used for fighting and this mostly relies on conquerors haki , but at best u can knock off some fodders with it , if u actually wanna fight then u gotta coat ur coc with ur fighting style which results in acoc

 

[Blazing Lion]

Both are true since the Mythical Zoans are the least in number (lesser than Logias) shown so far in the manga. And that there are a lot of top tiers who are haki based/non devil fruit fighters. Non devil fruit top tiers and how they are portrayed.
Roger (PK)
Garp (Hero, PK equivalent of Marines)
Mihawk (WSS)
Shanks (Yonko, closest to PK)
Ryuma (most probably no DF, called the Sword God)
Rayleigh (Dark King, stalemating an Admiral and scaring a Yonko away in old age/retirement)
Oden (Considered by Kaido to be around/equal to Roger-WB-Xebec-Shanks)

If these guys are competing against DF users and are in most cases stronger or even when equal the DF users are competing using their own haki like WB clashing with Roger you can see why haki is more important. DF can give you an advantage over most but to be at the top you need haki. Look at the top two legends of each faction, Roger and Garp, both are non DF, haki based fighters.