Powers & Abilities Charlotte Linlin is unbeatable
- Thread starter Rosella.Fiamingo
- Start date
One is an ally and not threatening Luffy or the Shs, thus Oda would allow him too look badass.
The other was threatening Luffy and the Shs, of whom jimbei was ready to die for, therefore he gave Jimbei a badass moment.
Sheesh.
She is not Numero Uno, more like Numero Ocho!
Big Mom cannot be the strongest for the simple reason that other characters have received greater individual portrayal in the series. Statements like “We have angered the King of the Seas” or “Character X is without a doubt the strongest pirate” aren’t statements that have ever been made for Big Mom. So regardless of how broken you think her DF is or how much of a physically overpowered specimen she’s been hyped to be (a category in which Kaido beats her out lmao), she simply cannot be number 1.
You cannot debate author intended statements like these;
- Chinjao separates Roger from the rest of the pack which includes Big Mom.
Whitebeard has been explicitly put over the Yonko several times, Big Mom is a Yonko
More statements showcasing who actually is the strongest;
- Doffy mentions Roger and WB. No mention of Big Mom
-Crocodile states there are plenty of second-rate pirates who could never defeat the likes of Big Mom and Kaido....wait that doesn’t sound right....I mean Whitebeard and Roger, sorry.
- Shiki surmises that it’s Whitebeard’s age now that Roger (who was “a wall that stood before us” is gone) again no mention of Big Mom whatsoever.
and on and on....
This is a shonen, the strongest characters in a given verse are often made clear. If Big Mom is number 1 as you suggest, then where is the explicit author intented statements that suggest so?
Forget being over Roger/WB. She doesn’t even have the strongest case to be number one in an era where Roger and WB are dead. Instead Kaido has that mostly on lock with statements made in his intro;
Big Mom doesn’t even have a case to be above Kaido, that much is enough to showcase how groundless it is to suggest she’s greater than Roger or WB in individual strength.
Ima stop you right there on the Chinjao thing, he said that beating the yonko/admirals means surpassing Roger as even Roger couldnt do it.
Roger has no recorded 1vs1 win against another top tier that we know of.
The other was threatening Luffy and the Shs, of whom jimbei was ready to die for, therefore he gave Jimbei a badass moment.
Sheesh.
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She is not Numero Uno, more like Numero Ocho!
Big Mom cannot be the strongest for the simple reason that other characters have received greater individual portrayal in the series. Statements like “We have angered the King of the Seas” or “Character X is without a doubt the strongest pirate” aren’t statements that have ever been made for Big Mom. So regardless of how broken you think her DF is or how much of a physically overpowered specimen she’s been hyped to be (a category in which Kaido beats her out lmao), she simply cannot be number 1.
You cannot debate author intended statements like these;
- Chinjao separates Roger from the rest of the pack which includes Big Mom.
Whitebeard has been explicitly put over the Yonko several times, Big Mom is a Yonko
More statements showcasing who actually is the strongest;
- Doffy mentions Roger and WB. No mention of Big Mom
-Crocodile states there are plenty of second-rate pirates who could never defeat the likes of Big Mom and Kaido....wait that doesn’t sound right....I mean Whitebeard and Roger, sorry.
- Shiki surmises that it’s Whitebeard’s age now that Roger (who was “a wall that stood before us” is gone) again no mention of Big Mom whatsoever.
and on and on....
Forget being over Roger/WB. She doesn’t even have the strongest case to be number one in an era where Roger and WB are dead. Instead Kaido has that mostly on lock with statements made in his intro;
Roger has no recorded 1vs1 win against another top tier that we know of.
She is not Numero Uno, more like Numero Ocho!
Big Mom cannot be the strongest for the simple reason that other characters have received greater individual portrayal in the series. Statements like “We have angered the King of the Seas” or “Character X is without a doubt the strongest pirate” aren’t statements that have ever been made for Big Mom. So regardless of how broken you think her DF is or how much of a physically overpowered specimen she’s been hyped to be (a category in which Kaido beats her out lmao), she simply cannot be number 1.
You cannot debate author intended statements like these;
- Chinjao separates Roger from the rest of the pack which includes Big Mom.
Whitebeard has been explicitly put over the Yonko several times, Big Mom is a Yonko
More statements showcasing who actually is the strongest;
- Doffy mentions Roger and WB. No mention of Big Mom
-Crocodile states there are plenty of second-rate pirates who could never defeat the likes of Big Mom and Kaido....wait that doesn’t sound right....I mean Whitebeard and Roger, sorry.
- Shiki surmises that it’s Whitebeard’s age now that Roger (who was “a wall that stood before us” is gone) again no mention of Big Mom whatsoever.
and on and on....
Forget being over Roger/WB. She doesn’t even have the strongest case to be number one in an era where Roger and WB are dead. Instead Kaido has that mostly on lock with statements made in his intro;
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Comrade-kun again with the false equivalences
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If you were to ask me of my opinion, I'd tell you that the subordinate argument does not work since these guys went on alone and made a bigger name for themselves once they stopped living under Rocks Shadow. They became stronger and more influential the moment they set off on their own, taking on the hardest challenges. Permanent life/status as a subordinate does not off such opportunities.
This is madness. Yes Big Mom is very strong, you can argue she is top 5, or even top 3 currently. But to claim she is stronger than Roger or WB? Come on.
You are making points like Big Mom can be individually stronger than Roger-WB, but her crew is inferior. In One Piece setup, that doesnt work. Here, Luffy cant be a pirate king without being the strongest individually. Crew strength is important, but we have seen a constant theme, that the stronger captains can attract stronger crewmates. Do you think Roger-WB was like Buggy?
Roger and Kaido trying to avoid Big Mom is good hype. Her two shotting Queen or fighting Kaido equally for several days is great. Her physical abilities are also great. Thats why she is one of the strongest characters in the series.
Having said that, you just cant brush off all her humiliating moments with PIS. When we are comparing her with the best, we must nitpick. Every statement, every panel, no matter how small it is, needs to be under scrutiny. For example,
- Akainu freezing in front of Shanks is constantly used against Akainu
- Mihawk not beating Vista is probably viewed as Mihawk's lowest point in the series.
- People even use Whitebeard's heart attack in a debate, I have heard several times WB will have a heart attack against any top tier
Getting trolled once or twice is one thing, but getting constant humiliation, to the point that she has become a topic of meme and a joke is another. It has reached to a point where I dont feel worried for even Usopp, Chopper or Nami, when Big Mom, a yonko, chases them. How can she be stronger than Roger-WB when the author himself has no respect for her character?
You are making points like Big Mom can be individually stronger than Roger-WB, but her crew is inferior. In One Piece setup, that doesnt work. Here, Luffy cant be a pirate king without being the strongest individually. Crew strength is important, but we have seen a constant theme, that the stronger captains can attract stronger crewmates. Do you think Roger-WB was like Buggy?
Roger and Kaido trying to avoid Big Mom is good hype. Her two shotting Queen or fighting Kaido equally for several days is great. Her physical abilities are also great. Thats why she is one of the strongest characters in the series.
Having said that, you just cant brush off all her humiliating moments with PIS. When we are comparing her with the best, we must nitpick. Every statement, every panel, no matter how small it is, needs to be under scrutiny. For example,
- Akainu freezing in front of Shanks is constantly used against Akainu
- Mihawk not beating Vista is probably viewed as Mihawk's lowest point in the series.
- People even use Whitebeard's heart attack in a debate, I have heard several times WB will have a heart attack against any top tier
Getting trolled once or twice is one thing, but getting constant humiliation, to the point that she has become a topic of meme and a joke is another. It has reached to a point where I dont feel worried for even Usopp, Chopper or Nami, when Big Mom, a yonko, chases them. How can she be stronger than Roger-WB when the author himself has no respect for her character?
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H
I wouldn’t have responded to you without reading atleast some of your material and I don’t see anything that you brought up that can justify any contention with the established narratives. Don’t really care what some novel that came out double digit years later has to say when its been long established in the narrative that WB/Roger are at the top, don’t know how you can even begin to contest that.
Reasons you brought up such as people avoiding her were either exaggerated or even as yourself admitted, could be interpreted differently. For example Luffy deciding to take on Kaido first doesn’t in any way indicate that Big Mom is stronger, taking on Kaido was already set in motion and half his crew was in Wano. So it made sense for Luffy to postpone his fight with Big Mom and in no way means he saw her as a greater threat than Kaido. He just wasn’t ready to take her on when the focus was on Kaido.
You similarly attributed Kaido being alarmed by Big Mom coming to Wano and panned it as an evidence of her being stronger, when we know that’s nonsensical because Kaido was avoiding a full scale war that’s beyond just him and Big Mom. Later on he fought her when she was alone without any issues.
It’s also not contradictory of Kaido’s character to avoid an unneeded conflict with Big Mom that would hamper his resources and forces that he’s been preparing for years to put into motion for a much greater purpose. This is why he agreed to put aside his differences with Big Mom at the prospects of allying with her to add to his formidable military force.
If these are your primary evidences from the canon source material, then they are lacking in their foundations because a far better case can be made for Kaido in these regards and I think you even admitted to that in the OP at the end.
Reasons you brought up such as people avoiding her were either exaggerated or even as yourself admitted, could be interpreted differently. For example Luffy deciding to take on Kaido first doesn’t in any way indicate that Big Mom is stronger, taking on Kaido was already set in motion and half his crew was in Wano. So it made sense for Luffy to postpone his fight with Big Mom and in no way means he saw her as a greater threat than Kaido. He just wasn’t ready to take her on when the focus was on Kaido.
You similarly attributed Kaido being alarmed by Big Mom coming to Wano and panned it as an evidence of her being stronger, when we know that’s nonsensical because Kaido was avoiding a full scale war that’s beyond just him and Big Mom. Later on he fought her when she was alone without any issues.
It’s also not contradictory of Kaido’s character to avoid an unneeded conflict with Big Mom that would hamper his resources and forces that he’s been preparing for years to put into motion for a much greater purpose. This is why he agreed to put aside his differences with Big Mom at the prospects of allying with her to add to his formidable military force.
If these are your primary evidences from the canon source material, then they are lacking in their foundations because a far better case can be made for Kaido in these regards and I think you even admitted to that in the OP at the end.
J
WB, shiki, ROGER all have feared fighting her
Whatever trash feats Linlin gets can never outshine her best feats and portrayal
BM gets a pass because she has feats where she is above high tiers in combat
While Mihawk has never beaten or dominated any vet/high tier even
Kaido has no business avoiding BM 1 v 1
He avoids a war when he isn't prepared
What are Roger/WB/Shiki excuses to not battle BM 2 decades ago?
Whatever trash feats Linlin gets can never outshine her best feats and portrayal
BM gets a pass because she has feats where she is above high tiers in combat
While Mihawk has never beaten or dominated any vet/high tier even
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Kaido has no business avoiding BM 1 v 1
He avoids a war when he isn't prepared
What are Roger/WB/Shiki excuses to not battle BM 2 decades ago?
