Current Events Common sense obliterates Sanji fans once more! At what point will that fandom use logic and stop twisting facts for fake Ws?
- Thread starter DonWick
- Start date
There’s no ambiguity on who is stronger in a group of characters named Gold, Silver and Copper.
And like the argument was last week, he didn’t say equals. He said a word that is a lot vaguer than that and has been used to describe Roger, Whitebeard and Oden, Roger, Ray and Gaban and could as easily be used to describe the relationship between Luffy, Kid and Law as much as it could Luffy, Zoro and Sanji.
It doesn’t mean in fight any of them are equals, or even that they are as close as Akainu and Kuzan were.
And like the argument was last week, he didn’t say equals. He said a word that is a lot vaguer than that and has been used to describe Roger, Whitebeard and Oden, Roger, Ray and Gaban and could as easily be used to describe the relationship between Luffy, Kid and Law as much as it could Luffy, Zoro and Sanji.
It doesn’t mean in fight any of them are equals, or even that they are as close as Akainu and Kuzan were.
Yes, Zoro has parallels with Sanji just as Dorry/Brogy and Rayleigh/Gaban have parallels.
However, Zoro also has parallels with Luffy. They clashed equally in Whiskey Peak, the databook gave both of them equal strength stats and several people mistook Zoro for the captain or wondered how someone of his caliber is not a captain.
Also, Zoro has a defined strength related goal (to be the WSS and surpass Mihawk), so Rayleigh is not Zoro's ceiling.
However, Zoro also has parallels with Luffy. They clashed equally in Whiskey Peak, the databook gave both of them equal strength stats and several people mistook Zoro for the captain or wondered how someone of his caliber is not a captain.
Also, Zoro has a defined strength related goal (to be the WSS and surpass Mihawk), so Rayleigh is not Zoro's ceiling.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of all the countless Gaban vs Ray debates (although they're funny and chaotic af), so there's a more simplistic way to approach this topic:
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of all the countless Gaban vs Ray debates (although they're funny and chaotic af), so there's a more simplistic way to approach this topic:
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
It could actually end up being a blessing in disguise for Sanji fans if Sanji has no particular god tier strength goal. What if Joyboy and Ryuma allied against the WG but ended up losing because Joyboy had no competent left hand man (not necessarily saying Ryuma was Joyboy's underling but he could have functioned as the second strongest person in Joyboy's alliance) and while Joyboy/Ryuma were crazy strong, it wasn't enough to bring down the WG. But this time, Luffy will win because he has both a Ryuma (Zoro) AND a competent strong left hand man in Sanji who is kind of a 1 of 1 dude. And that is the reason why Luffy's side will ultimately win
food for thought
food for thought
WSS title
3 magic black blades
Ryuma lineage
"Demon god form"
"better haki than luffy"
"Top 1 because its his dream"
Just to go 20 day extreme diff with the cook who doesnt care about fighting and rather would goon
3 magic black blades
Ryuma lineage
"Demon god form"
"better haki than luffy"
"Top 1 because its his dream"
Just to go 20 day extreme diff with the cook who doesnt care about fighting and rather would goon
You know, I'm starting to get tired of all the countless Gaban vs Ray debates (although they're funny and chaotic af), so there's a more simplistic way to approach this topic:
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Imu’s companions are the Gorosei. Blackbeard’s companions are his crew.
They might fight an Admiral.
EoS Sanji will prove himself above some of the above. There‘s not another, even more secret, group of villains where every single one of them is god tier that is shattering the power system.
EoS Sanji having an extreme diff with Marcus Mars does not make him roughly equal to Roger lmao. Do you really think Roger, or Whitebeard wouldn’t stomp the Gorosei 1 vs 1 when Gaban can easily deal with regen? The Gorosei need to prove themselves now against every other top tier. They can’t skate by on regen anymore. Imagine Saturn without his regen lmao, would we even consider him top tier?
Imu and Blackbeard are the only outliers, Imu for being the almost certain god of forest, the source of all the strange powers and the centuries ofl leader of the WG. Blackbeard for having two DFs, his mysterious lineage and being on Imu’s shit list alongside the god of sun and sea (Luffy and Shirahoshi). Sanji’s not going to be beating either of them. We can’t even say he’s likely to even play a role in their defeat- when‘s he ever done that for a Luffy villain in the past?
The ambiguity is writtrn in this chapter by oda by including the word probably. If it's as straight forward as you said oda could have just flat out said gaban is #3 but he didn't.
@Roo can testify that what jinbe said is them being equals not unless you think gaban just physically stood next to Rayleigh.
You have oda constantly hammering in gaban ~ Rayleigh. Theres far more evidence of the gap being small than it being significant.
@Roo can testify that what jinbe said is them being equals not unless you think gaban just physically stood next to Rayleigh.
You have oda constantly hammering in gaban ~ Rayleigh. Theres far more evidence of the gap being small than it being significant.
This is how they cope. They know Sanji will never be stronger than Zoro. They know he'll never be equal to Zoro. They know whatever parallel [or forced parallel] he gets will never be stronger or equal to Zoro's parallel/s.
So this is how they cope. Don't discourage them. Let them troll and get their likes on worstgen. Keep them in your prayers
Boa was at Blackbeard's mercy. Rayleigh comes in, flexes his CoC, Blackbeard flinches and runs away.
Colon is at some HKs mercy. Gaban comes in, flexes his CoA demon haki, his son is still at the enemies mercy, he surrenders, he gets wounded and would die without chopper. Instead of telling Zoro & Co about what's going on, proceeds to self-hype about his strength level...
. He's a certified bum. Truly 5anji's parallel
So this is how they cope. Don't discourage them. Let them troll and get their likes on worstgen. Keep them in your prayers
Post automatically merged:
Boa was at Blackbeard's mercy. Rayleigh comes in, flexes his CoC, Blackbeard flinches and runs away.
Colon is at some HKs mercy. Gaban comes in, flexes his CoA demon haki, his son is still at the enemies mercy, he surrenders, he gets wounded and would die without chopper. Instead of telling Zoro & Co about what's going on, proceeds to self-hype about his strength level...
. He's a certified bum. Truly 5anji's parallel
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Their relationship is the M3 relationship. That’s not especially subtle, and Oda’s not even bothered to hide it with Gaban/Sanji, where at least he kept Zoro/Ray from being carbon copies of each other.
And what that means is that these three are the main fighters of the Roger Pirates, standing side by side and taking on the main three fighters of whatever crews the Roger’s defeated.
Someone reasonably knowledgeable who doesn’t know the Strawhats but only knows their exploits, would say that Sanji is “probably” the number three. (Actually, right now it would likely be Jinbei with his reputation and bounty, but we’ll talk historically).
They would probably also say that he rivals Zoro.
The readers who actually see the adventures know that Zoro is definitely the number 2, Sanji is definitely the number 3 and while they may have a brotherly rivalry, they aren’t equal to each other in strength. Not even itsy bitsy it’s 51/49 for Zoro, Zoro’s just flat out superior.
Before Luffy was well known, it was commonplace for other characters to think that Zoro was the captain and the strongest. The readers knew better. The same is true here.
And what that means is that these three are the main fighters of the Roger Pirates, standing side by side and taking on the main three fighters of whatever crews the Roger’s defeated.
Someone reasonably knowledgeable who doesn’t know the Strawhats but only knows their exploits, would say that Sanji is “probably” the number three. (Actually, right now it would likely be Jinbei with his reputation and bounty, but we’ll talk historically).
They would probably also say that he rivals Zoro.
The readers who actually see the adventures know that Zoro is definitely the number 2, Sanji is definitely the number 3 and while they may have a brotherly rivalry, they aren’t equal to each other in strength. Not even itsy bitsy it’s 51/49 for Zoro, Zoro’s just flat out superior.
Before Luffy was well known, it was commonplace for other characters to think that Zoro was the captain and the strongest. The readers knew better. The same is true here.
![[No Name]](https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/data/avatars/o/8/8045.jpg?1622550034){kind=avatar}
That's not what Oda fucking says by Nami.
The truth is that you all are copers.
Gaban not being exactly same equal to Ray was indeed well, predictable.
The thing is, he is close.
And you all are trying to gaslight people my making forget that you all said:
Sanji as closer to jinbe than Zoro, then Scpper introduction literally mentions two guys, outside of Roger as being the strongest by far out of the crew (which is exactly what Sanji and Zoro are already at wano, by fighting all stars).
And now Oda punished you all for this, jinbe is frauding and Sanji as I always said is closer to even freaking luffy than the fraudolent fish.
Then you all said Gaban was an irrelevant character, when the flashback put him with Ray, also in charging the Roger pirates, implying similar authority and strength, which he had and you all ignored.
Here you got, left hand man, the term that you all declined it existed, and the wings, because as always you would deny this clear dynamic which Oda decided to give a name too.
Then, as you keep doing, u were saying Gaban wasn't impressive, when without coc he played with Zoro and Luffy forcing them to full power and tag.
Nami words punished your guys agenda.
You always mentioned "partners Dark King and Pirate King, Coc duo"
Wings, counterpart to Rayleigh, true actual duo, Gaban got CoC, Sanji will get CoC.
And Oda cares more about N2 and N3 dynamic, closeness in power and both, together as wings of the pirate king.
Remember, monster trio and wings, I don't see the name about the dynamic Zoro and Luffy you all push about.
Because Zoro is not a second Luffy in the crew, he is like a second Sanji, similar strength, similar authority, a tiny bit a above, a Sanji plus not a Luffy minus.
Accept. This.
Roger 100
Rayleigh 90
Gaban 87.5
Sanji will surpass Mihawk.
The truth is that you all are copers.
Gaban not being exactly same equal to Ray was indeed well, predictable.
The thing is, he is close.
And you all are trying to gaslight people my making forget that you all said:
Sanji as closer to jinbe than Zoro, then Scpper introduction literally mentions two guys, outside of Roger as being the strongest by far out of the crew (which is exactly what Sanji and Zoro are already at wano, by fighting all stars).
And now Oda punished you all for this, jinbe is frauding and Sanji as I always said is closer to even freaking luffy than the fraudolent fish.
Then you all said Gaban was an irrelevant character, when the flashback put him with Ray, also in charging the Roger pirates, implying similar authority and strength, which he had and you all ignored.
Here you got, left hand man, the term that you all declined it existed, and the wings, because as always you would deny this clear dynamic which Oda decided to give a name too.
Then, as you keep doing, u were saying Gaban wasn't impressive, when without coc he played with Zoro and Luffy forcing them to full power and tag.
Nami words punished your guys agenda.
You always mentioned "partners Dark King and Pirate King, Coc duo"
Wings, counterpart to Rayleigh, true actual duo, Gaban got CoC, Sanji will get CoC.
And Oda cares more about N2 and N3 dynamic, closeness in power and both, together as wings of the pirate king.
Remember, monster trio and wings, I don't see the name about the dynamic Zoro and Luffy you all push about.
Because Zoro is not a second Luffy in the crew, he is like a second Sanji, similar strength, similar authority, a tiny bit a above, a Sanji plus not a Luffy minus.
Accept. This.
Roger 100
Rayleigh 90
Gaban 87.5
Sanji will surpass Mihawk.
You know, I'm starting to get tired of all the countless Gaban vs Ray debates (although they're funny and chaotic af), so there's a more simplistic way to approach this topic:
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Neither Ray nor Gaban are Zoro and Sanji's ceiling. Neither is it Mihawk nor even Ryuma. Have we ever thought at the companions assisting Nika against the Earth God? Everyone, who read a few shounen mangas, know that usually the first and last generation is the strongest. This will include One Piece as well. The middle generation is always the weakest or the most neglectful, basically like the middle child.
So these companions will be Zoro's and Sanji's ceiling because I'm sure Nika's Zoro and Sanji is their true ceiling. Ryuma?
What is Ryuma in comparison to the first one? Same with Gaban.
Zoro will end up stronger than Roger, Sanji will be approximately be ~Roger at the very least but that's the thing, Ray isn't Zoro's ceiling and neither Gaban is for Sanji.
I don't need to explain everything else for Luffy because it's obvious: EoS Luffy > Nika > Joyboy > Roger.
Few years ago on Oro Jackson you and I had a argument about Zoro’s ceiling and you were adamant that Zoro’s ceiling was Mihawk and no one else. Even tho I was saying that we don’t know what Oda has in store for the character, you were unwilling to hear any other idea about his ceiling.
What made yo change your mind?
1.) Latest OJ was at the state when Luffy reached Wano and we had no idea about Nika or any of the gods. Thus, we had very limited knowledge based on hints or possible theories.
2.) I placed Mihawk above Ryuma and even now, my scaling didn't change. What changed is how I placed the likes of Kaido, when I thought he's comparable to WB and Roger which changed as well. Admiral scaling didn't change either, it made me even more impressed what they performed.
So in general, with the information of the 1st and 2nd world, as well as possible allies of either Joyboy and Nika, I changed my opinion.
Furthermore, with Imu summoning demon armies, there's high chance we'll get a similar situation like Edo Tensei with the immortal demon army.
2.) I placed Mihawk above Ryuma and even now, my scaling didn't change. What changed is how I placed the likes of Kaido, when I thought he's comparable to WB and Roger which changed as well. Admiral scaling didn't change either, it made me even more impressed what they performed.
So in general, with the information of the 1st and 2nd world, as well as possible allies of either Joyboy and Nika, I changed my opinion.
Furthermore, with Imu summoning demon armies, there's high chance we'll get a similar situation like Edo Tensei with the immortal demon army.