Powers & Abilities Conqueror vs Non Conqueror Mentality

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Lol what?

How exactly was Zoro on that path?

If he hadn’t met Luffy he‘d have been executed, but he wasn‘t at any point at risk of giving up.



Wow, what DF does Zoro use to fight with a sword in his mouth?

Have you somehow not managed to notice that in One Piece, characters do things that really aren‘t possible?

Explains a lot tbh.

Yeah I still have to see any character on a wheelchair in OnePiece.

The fact that you are comparing not having feet and being a cripple to holding a object in the mouth is frankly the best proof of how in bad faith you are arguing.
Oh, and btw, one of the most relevant talking point of One Piece is how the WSS lost interest in Shanks after he lost his arm, can you imagine how much interest Mihawk would have in a cripple on a wheelchair?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Yeah I still have to see any character on a wheelchair in OnePiece.

The fact that you are comparing not having feet and being a cripple to holding a object in the mouth is frankly the best proof of how in bad faith you are arguing.
Oh, and btw, one of the most relevant talking point of One Piece is how the WSS lost interest in Shanks after he lost his arm, can you imagine how much interest Mihawk would have in a cripple on a wheelchair?

Where’s Shiki’s wheelchair?

Did Inuarashi become fodder after losing a leg?

How come Kyros could still fight?

All you are doing is parroting “bad faith” stupid point after stupid point.

Might as well let the manga do the talking

If you think that Zoro’s portrayed in the wrong there, or giving up on his dream, then it’s as stupid as when you were trying to argue that Luffy gave up on being PK in Amazon Lily. Unable to read a simple comic book levels of dumb.

As for Mihawk, he would just have to deal with it.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Where’s Shiki’s wheelchair?

Shiki can fly through his devil fruit, ding dong do you read the manga you talk so much about?

As you prove, you don't even read other's people messages.
Really showing your true colors.

As for the rest of your points:

Did Inuarashi become fodder after losing a leg?

How come Kyros could still fight?

All you are doing is parroting “bad faith” stupid point after stupid point.

Might as well let the manga do the talking

If you think that Zoro’s portrayed in the wrong there, or giving up on his dream, then it’s as stupid as when you were trying to argue that Luffy gave up on being PK in Amazon Lily. Unable to read a simple comic book levels of dumb.

As for Mihawk, he would just have to deal with it.

We have no idea how much those characters have lost in fighting power by becoming cripples, but I can assure that all of them lost way less that what Zoro was about to lose, which is both feet.

Mihawk would simply not give a shit about a has been, just like he doesn't give a shit about Shanks, and this again, it's canon.
Mihawk doesn't deal with has beens and cripples. In Zoro's case, if he had cut his feet there, he'd actually never been anything.

Please read the manga.

 

[GalaxyLevelShanks]

Ok kiddo

Seems like I struck the cheerleader’s nerve 💔

 

[Garp the Fist]

Theirs is no difference between someone willing to sacrifice their dream and dying to protect those important to them, and someone willing to sacrifice their dream and living imprisoned to protect those important to them.

Both sacrifice their lives for those they love.

Trying to force one as abandoning their dream and the other conqueror mentality is really stupid

Not according to Zoro’s great uncle, who thinks it’s better to fight a hopeless fight and die rather than “wasting to death” in a prison.

As you prove, you don't even read other's people messages.
Really showing your true colors.

I read your point.

Your point was fucking stupid though, because this is a world where the impossible is so common place that people somehow overlook that Zoro’s fighting style is physically impossible anyway.

If you can fight with a sword by holding it in your mouth, you can fight with two peg legs, or two sword legs. For all we know Zoro could even get two cybrog feet.

The main point is, saying that Zoro gave up his dream on LG by trying to vut his legs off to keep fighting is stupid af.

We have no idea how much those characters have lost in fighting power by becoming cripples, but I can assure that all of them lost way less that what Zoro was about to lose, which is both feet.

Mihawk would simply not give a shit about a has been, just like he doesn't give a shit about Shanks, and this again, it's canon.
Mihawk doesn't deal with has beens and cripples. In Zoro's case, if he had cut his feet there, he'd actually never been anything.

Please read the manga.

Yeah, sure, that’s why Dorry is saying “Zoro, you fucking idiot, don‘t cut off your feet or you will never achieve anything in the world.”

Wait, what’s that, the embodiment of manly pride actually goes along with Zoro’s plan?

Huh.

Mihawk’s trash talk with Shanks is irrelevant - cause really, that’s all it is. It‘s trash talk between two frenemies. He clearly knows that Shanks is not fodder despite losing his arm. They have a long history together that we still now barely know anything about.

If Zoro lost two feet, did a Shiki, learned to fight Gotroyu style, rose up through the ranks with Luffy to become right hand man of a Yonko, ready to fight for the PK and the title, you seriously think Mihawk would say “nu uh, I only agreed to fight Zoro with two feet.”

You honestly get nothing about this series in a way that I have not seen in years.

 

[AL sama]

chill

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Not according to Zoro’s great uncle, who thinks it’s better to fight a hopeless fight and die rather than “wasting to death” in a prison.



I read your point.

Your point was fucking stupid though, because this is a world where the impossible is so common place that people somehow overlook that Zoro’s fighting style is physically impossible anyway.

If you can fight with a sword by holding it in your mouth, you can fight with two peg legs, or two sword legs. For all we know Zoro could even get two cybrog feet.

The main point is, saying that Zoro gave up his dream on LG by trying to vut his legs off to keep fighting is stupid af.



Yeah, sure, that’s why Dorry is saying “Zoro, you fucking idiot, don‘t cut off your feet or you will never achieve anything in the world.”

Wait, what’s that, the embodiment of manly pride actually goes along with Zoro’s plan?

Huh.

Mihawk’s trash talk with Shanks is irrelevant - cause really, that’s all it is. It‘s trash talk between two frenemies. He clearly knows that Shanks is not fodder despite losing his arm. They have a long history together that we still now barely know anything about.

If Zoro lost two feet, did a Shiki, learned to fight Gotroyu style, rose up through the ranks with Luffy to become right hand man of a Yonko, ready to fight for the PK and the title, you seriously think Mihawk would say “nu uh, I only agreed to fight Zoro with two feet.”

You honestly get nothing about this series in a way that I have not seen in years.

Glad that you do not understand me, because you're clearly retarded.

I repeat what's written in the canon of the manga, and you reply with head canon.
After the loss of his hand, Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks, that's the end of it.

I find pointless arguing with you, because you are clearly in bad faith: you compare having no feet to holding a sword in the mouth (that albeit weird was enstablished as a fact in volume 1, so it's understandable) to not walking.
If characters could do what you say, Oda would have put them in the story, but guess what, the only one that can do it is the one doing it with his DF. Dorri is also depicted as a stubborn fool who spent his whole life holed up on an island for a silly grudge (who Oda retconned away to have them be relevant to the plot again), so if that is the meter of judgement, also the stilts guy on long ring long land is a great champion.

Discussing with you is pointless, it's like talking to a monkey. Everything that contradicts you becomes irrelevant and you handwave, and yet you are hooked up on ONE baloon of text taken out of context.
Your hate for a fictional character is almost pathological, have you tried takign meds?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Not according to Zoro’s great uncle, who thinks it’s better to fight a hopeless fight and die rather than “wasting to death” in a prison.



I read your point.

Your point was fucking stupid though, because this is a world where the impossible is so common place that people somehow overlook that Zoro’s fighting style is physically impossible anyway.

If you can fight with a sword by holding it in your mouth, you can fight with two peg legs, or two sword legs. For all we know Zoro could even get two cybrog feet.

The main point is, saying that Zoro gave up his dream on LG by trying to vut his legs off to keep fighting is stupid af.



Yeah, sure, that’s why Dorry is saying “Zoro, you fucking idiot, don‘t cut off your feet or you will never achieve anything in the world.”

Wait, what’s that, the embodiment of manly pride actually goes along with Zoro’s plan?

Huh.

Mihawk’s trash talk with Shanks is irrelevant - cause really, that’s all it is. It‘s trash talk between two frenemies. He clearly knows that Shanks is not fodder despite losing his arm. They have a long history together that we still now barely know anything about.

If Zoro lost two feet, did a Shiki, learned to fight Gotroyu style, rose up through the ranks with Luffy to become right hand man of a Yonko, ready to fight for the PK and the title, you seriously think Mihawk would say “nu uh, I only agreed to fight Zoro with two feet.”

You honestly get nothing about this series in a way that I have not seen in years.

Fighting back means killing Luffy Zeff and the other straw hats in the WCI scenario. So you’d rather Sanji selfishly kill everyone rather than sacrifice himself and save everyone? Despite that being what Zoro did against Kuma? Sacrificing himself and saving people cause the fight was hopeless?

Man your double standards need to chill.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Glad that you do not understand me, because you're clearly retarded.

I repeat what's written in the canon of the manga, and you reply with head canon.
After the loss of his hand, Mihawk stopped fighting Shanks, that's the end of it.

I find pointless arguing with you, because you are clearly in bad faith: you compare having no feet to holding a sword in the mouth (that albeit weird was enstablished as a fact in volume 1, so it's understandable) to not walking.
If characters could do what you say, Oda would have put them in the story, but guess what, the only one that can do it is the one doing it with his DF. Dorri is also depicted as a stubborn fool who spent his whole life holed up on an island for a silly grudge (who Oda retconned away to have them be relevant to the plot again), so if that is the meter of judgement, also the stilts guy on long ring long land is a great champion.

Discussing with you is pointless, it's like talking to a monkey. Everything that contradicts you becomes irrelevant and you handwave, and yet you are hooked up on ONE baloon of text taken out of context.
Your hate for a fictional character is almost pathological, have you tried takign meds?

Ahahaha, you’re having a fucking nightmare lol. I take back what I said before, in all my time discussing One Piece I have never came across someone who has missed the point of the series as badly as you have. Like, not powerscaling, not theories about the future, but missing the most fundamental themes for children that Oda is writing about.

Now the message we are meant to take away from Little Garden is that Dorry and Broggy are “stubborn fools?”

Like, you understand you are meant to take Luffy and Usopp’s side, and not Nami’s right? That Dorry and Broggy embody one of the main characters dreams? Jesus wept.

Jabbering on about canon while ignoring that canonically, Shiki can fight without his legs, and canonically, Zoro attempting to cut his own legs off was the right thing to do.

Fighting back means killing Luffy Zeff and the other straw hats in the WCI scenario. So you’d rather Sanji selfishly kill everyone rather than sacrifice himself and save everyone? Despite that being what Zoro did against Kuma? Sacrificing himself and saving people cause the fight was hopeless?

Man your double standards need to chill.

Sigh.

Sir Yasheen, did you actually read WCI?

Are you aware that Sanji giving up did not, actually, do any good whatsoever?

Fighting back is what they ended up doing. It was the right approach. It did not kill Luffy, Zeff and all the other Strawhats.

Sanji’s approach was the wrong one. It would have resulted in his death, and likely the deaths of all the Strawhats and Germa as well. Zeff might have been okay, (although I will say I think this was just poor writing from Oda).

Zoro first fought Kuma, then when that didn’t work he got him to agree to a compromise that did.

Sanji did not do that. Sanji himself acknowledges that his plans were the wrong approach throughout, and he was dreaming to think they would work. He trusted in his family, who are scum, and BM, who he already knew was an enemy to Luffy, imstead of trusting Luffy.

None of this is interpretation, Sanji literally says it.

 

[AL sama]

Fighting back means killing Luffy Zeff and the other straw hats in the WCI scenario. So you’d rather Sanji selfishly kill everyone rather than sacrifice himself and save everyone? Despite that being what Zoro did against Kuma? Sacrificing himself and saving people cause the fight was hopeless?

Man your double standards need to chill.

let's be real in WCI Sanji lacked faith in Luffy which isn't the same thing as to what Zoro did against Kuma

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Ahahaha, you’re having a fucking nightmare lol. I take back what I said before, in all my time discussing One Piece I have never came across someone who has missed the point of the series as badly as you have. Like, not powerscaling, not theories about the future, but missing the most fundamental themes for children that Oda is writing about.

Now the message we are meant to take away from Little Garden is that Dorry and Broggy are “stubborn fools?”

Like, you understand you are meant to take Luffy and Usopp’s side, and not Nami’s right? That Dorry and Broggy embody one of the main characters dreams? Jesus wept.

Jabbering on about canon while ignoring that canonically, Shiki can fight without his legs, and canonically, Zoro attempting to cut his own legs off was the right thing to do.



Sigh.

Sir Yasheen, did you actually read WCI?

Are you aware that Sanji giving up did not, actually, do any good whatsoever?

Fighting back is what they ended up doing. It was the right approach. It did not kill Luffy, Zeff and all the other Strawhats.

Sanji’s approach was the wrong one. It would have resulted in his death, and likely the deaths of all the Strawhats and Germa as well. Zeff might have been okay, (although I will say I think this was just poor writing from Oda).

Zoro first fought Kuma, then when that didn’t work he got him to agree to a compromise that did.

Sanji did not do that. Sanji himself acknowledges that his plans were the wrong approach throughout, and he was dreaming to think they would work. He trusted in his family, who are scum, and BM, who he already knew was an enemy to Luffy, imstead of trusting Luffy.

None of this is interpretation, Sanji literally says it.

Did you read WCI? The intent is that through sacrifice Sanji would be saving everyone. Now obviously because of a series of plot convenient Sanji had no way to know or plan for and the sacrifice of Pedro, the SHs escaped with their lives.

But that doesn’t invalidate the intent. Sanji planned for everyone to be free and in exchange his life would be forfeit. That’s the same thing as Zoro and Kuma. Using one as an example of weak Willed and one as strong is jus agenda

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2025

let's be real in WCI Sanji lacked faith in Luffy which isn't the same thing as to what Zoro did against Kuma

Not wanting to have Luffy sacrifice his adventure and dream just to spend the rest of his life protecting Zeff isn’t about faith. He probably down right knew Luffy would do to. But to at not fair to Luffy.

 

[AL sama]

Not wanting to have Luffy sacrifice his adventure and dream just to spend the rest of his life protecting Zeff isn’t about faith. He probably down right knew Luffy would do to. But to at not fair to Luffy.

Oda made Sanji show clear lack of faith whether you like it or not

he also made Sanji appear as an idiot cause Sanji could easily guess that no one would be able to stop Luffy from going if Sanji got involved

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Oda made Sanji show clear lack of faith whether you like it or not

he also made Sanji appear as an idiot cause Sanji could easily guess that no one would be able to stop Luffy from going if Sanji got involved

What lack of faith? He knew Luffy would fight anyone and everyone for him if he asked. But they just picked a fight with Kaido, Sanji didn’t want him also picking a fight with big mom because of Sanjis family.

Sanji always had faith in Luffy, that’s why he did everything to try and make Luffy lose faith in him, but even at the end of the day, Sanji knew Luffy would be waiting for him exactly here he said he’d be.

So what exactly do you mean a lack of faith?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Did you read WCI? The intent is that through sacrifice Sanji would be saving everyone. Now obviously because of a series of plot convenient Sanji had no way to know or plan for and the sacrifice of Pedro, the SHs escaped with their lives.

But that doesn’t invalidate the intent. Sanji planned for everyone to be free and in exchange his life would be forfeit. That’s the same thing as Zoro and Kuma. Using one as an example of weak Willed and one as strong is jus agenda

You still are refusing to accept there is a difference between dying in pursuit of a dream, and living having given up on a dream, so there’s no point in going round in circles anymore about it.

It boils down to something quite simple. What Zoro did is one of the most famous moments in One Piece, and was portrayed as unanimously a heroic and brave thing to do.

What Sanji did is never portrayed as heroic, is criticised by literally every character that talks about it, and far from being iconic, people on this thread seemed to have genuinely forgot it happened before I reminded them.

You might want to think why that the two moments are treated so differently both in-series and out.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

You still are refusing to accept there is a difference between dying in pursuit of a dream, and living having given up on a dream, so there’s no point in going round in circles anymore about it.

It boils down to something quite simple. What Zoro did is one of the most famous moments in One Piece, and was portrayed as unanimously a heroic and brave thing to do.

What Sanji did is never portrayed as heroic, is criticised by literally every character that talks about it, and far from being iconic, people on this thread seemed to have genuinely forgot it happened before I reminded them.

You might want to think why that the two moments are treated so differently both in-series and out.

Cause there isn’t. When both accomplish the same goal of keeping those you love safe. Oden is a prime example where he lived as Orochis joke to save Wano, then once that wasn’t going to work, he fought back.

You’re making a difference that not even oda believes because of a double standard you personally have.

If you think Zoro wouldn’t live a life of imprisonment if in exchange Luffy would be spared you’re just deluding yourslec.

 

[AL sama]

What lack of faith? He knew Luffy would fight anyone and everyone for him if he asked. But they just picked a fight with Kaido, Sanji didn’t want him also picking a fight with big mom because of Sanjis family.

Sanji always had faith in Luffy, that’s why he did everything to try and make Luffy lose faith in him, but even at the end of the day, Sanji knew Luffy would be waiting for him exactly here he said he’d be.

So what exactly do you mean a lack of faith?

we are both Sanji fans but I can wholeheartedly say Sanji didn't have enough faith in Luffy and made dumb bad decisions cause he was emotional and confused

Nami slapped him cause of his dumbness

 

[Garp the Fist]

Cause there isn’t. When both accomplish the same goal of keeping those you love safe. Oden is a prime example where he lived as Orochis joke to save Wano, then once that wasn’t going to work, he fought back.

You’re making a difference that not even oda believes because of a double standard you personally have.

If you think Zoro wouldn’t live a life of imprisonment if in exchange Luffy would be spared you’re just deluding yourslec.

You’re just never going to acknowledge that Sanji didn‘t actually keep anyone safe on WCI, despite Sanji himself saying it, huh?

Sanji accomplished squat with his decision to beat up Luffy, giving up on the crew and himself, and trying to trust Big Mom. Literally, it did not save anyone.

It’s not about ”living as a joke.” That’s a discussion about pride, and that’s a different discussion entirely. Oden gave up on his pride, but he never gave up on his dream. Pride did not come into the equation for Sanji’s decision making in WCI.

You‘ve literally been shown a page with a guy who was specifically noted to be exactly like Zoro believing that it’s better to die fighting a hopeless battle than waste away in prison, and you think that Zoro would do differently?

Zoro would not do what Sanji did on Zou and WCI. He would trust in Luffy, and because it’s One Piece, Oda would reward that trust. The same way he rewarded Sanji when he did, finally, trust in Luffy. Because to do otherwise would be to go against the message that Oda has been trying to tell since the beginning.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

we are both Sanji fans but I can wholeheartedly say Sanji didn't have enough faith in Luffy and made dumb bad decisions cause he was emotional and confused

Nami slapped him cause of his dumbness

Yeah he definitely made some dumb choices. But I don’t think they were from a lack of faith. Oda established decades ago that Sanji has a blind spot to women’s lies and trusts them implicitly.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2025

You’re just never going to acknowledge that Sanji didn‘t actually keep anyone safe on WCI, despite Sanji himself saying it, huh?

Sanji accomplished squat with his decision to beat up Luffy, giving up on the crew and himself, and trying to trust Big Mom. Literally, it did not save anyone.

It’s not about ”living as a joke.” That’s a discussion about pride, and that’s a different discussion entirely. Oden gave up on his pride, but he never gave up on his dream. Pride did not come into the equation for Sanji’s decision making in WCI.

You‘ve literally been shown a page with a guy who was specifically noted to be exactly like Zoro believing that it’s better to die fighting a hopeless battle than waste away in prison, and you think that Zoro would do differently?

Zoro would not do what Sanji did on Zou and WCI. He would trust in Luffy, and because it’s One Piece, Oda would reward that trust. The same way he rewarded Sanji when he did, finally, trust in Luffy. Because to do otherwise would be to go against the message that Oda has been trying to tell since the beginning.

That’s not what we’re talking about? We’re talking about how Sanji didn’t “throw away his dream” cause he’s weak willed like you’re trying to stupidly say.

He did it to protect people.

 

[Royal Kick]

Well again, I’m not saying Sanji lacks resolve, I’m saying that he does not have has strong as resolve as Luffy and Zoro and that‘s why he is weaker than them. I don’t see how anyone can think that Luffy and Zoro would have given up on WCI the way that Sanji did.

I think Oden’s actually the exact opposite- he never gave up his goal of opening Wano’s borders. His deal with Kaido didn’t have anything to do with his dream. He was content to make a deal with Kaido and Orochi to save the people of Wano at the cost of his own dignity, but the second they broke the deal he went after them. Then when it was clear that he was going to die, he made sure to pass his dream over to the Scabbards so that it would be fulfilled.

He was scared of Kaido and Orochi's military might and became their bitch to protect Wano people because he didn't trust that he could win, had he chosen to fight back. Meaning he cared about the odds and let himself be intimidated into obeying them. He wasn't pleased with having to do what they said, but he did it because he put Wano people's lives above his own. And it had nothing to do with his dream.

Likewise, Sanji's decision had nothing to do with his dream. You're saying he threw away his dream because he didn't literally die, but what he did was exactly the same thing as dying. He threw away his life for the people he cared about, that's choosing death in a metaphorical sense. It's quite arbitrary to say it has to be a physical death for it to qualify as a sacrifice of his life, rather than a sacrifice of his dream. Just like Zoro, he threw away his life for the sake of his loved ones.

I also saw you mention Zoro criticizing him for what he's done, which I believe is a big misreading of the whole thing. Zoro criticized Sanji at a time when he had no idea why he really left, he didn't even know about the hostage situation. That's why Oda showed him eavesdropping on Luffy and Pekoms' convo later, so he could realize what this was all really about. He didn't say anything bad about Sanji's choice after that.

Nobody imagines Zoro "crying outside the bedroom of a 16 yo girl" because that's not generally in his character to be sensitive, he cried only once, while someone like Luffy cries a lot. But you'd never hear anyone say Zoro is tougher than Luffy. So, at the end of the day, it sounds more like a way to say "he's too ubersuperduper cool to cry" than a real point in favor of Zoro's resolve. Both Luffy and Sanji are more sensitive than stoic Zoro and it has nothing to do with their will. If that scene makes Sanji look bad and less cool than Zoro to you, fair enough. In my book, it's one of the things that makes Sanji a better character than the empty shell that Zoro became post-TS.

And I completely disagree with your take on the Baratie scene. You stay on a surface level and ignore subtext completely. Sanji was trying to convince himself to give up on his dream, he was projecting and not even really talking about Zoro. He was trying to talk himself into giving up on his dream because he was actually so stubborn and strong-willed that he never truly gave up on it and needed to resort to self-persuasion to forget about his dream once and for all. He put his dream on hold, not because he actually gave up on it, but because he had a moral debt and Zeff's life was more important than anything else in his mind. Hence the self-persuasion attempt, which was actually about his love for Zeff, not about his dream.

If Zoro or Luffy had found themselves in a situation where pursuing their dream with no hesitation meant prioritize their dream over someone they loved and ignoring the moral debt they owed to them, you think they'd just leave without a second thought? Of course not, they'd be conflicted too. Sanji needed to go through that emotional journey to accept that's it's ok to not stay with his savior to pursue his own goal. Again, it was way more about his kindness, gratitude, and love for Zeff than about his will or dream per se.

 

[LinlinLover]

Bad future SHs look way more interesting than their good futures tbh