Speculations Delete this thread
- Thread starter Logiko
- Start date
This seems to only be inspired by the recent color spread and the other one that had Carrot alongside the Yonko. I don't think those are meant to be as important as you think.
One: Carrot is in the new spread, but so is Hancock, and so is Mihawk. You can make an argument for why Hancock COULD come to Elbaf, but like this thread about Carrot coming to Elbaf, it's very unlikely to come true. Same for Mihawk but to an even lesser extent.
Two: In the one with the Yonko, it's a callback to one where a random goat was in her spot and a random Marine was to the right of Shanks. Those two characters were not important whatsoever, and I doubt Carrot is either. He just chooses at random which characters to include in these types of spreads, really, so I don't see a reason to look into them deeply most of the time.
One: Carrot is in the new spread, but so is Hancock, and so is Mihawk. You can make an argument for why Hancock COULD come to Elbaf, but like this thread about Carrot coming to Elbaf, it's very unlikely to come true. Same for Mihawk but to an even lesser extent.
Two: In the one with the Yonko, it's a callback to one where a random goat was in her spot and a random Marine was to the right of Shanks. Those two characters were not important whatsoever, and I doubt Carrot is either. He just chooses at random which characters to include in these types of spreads, really, so I don't see a reason to look into them deeply most of the time.
nah lol. I want to, but I'm always watching others things
Nah, I've been waiting to make this thread for a long time. In fact I think I already made it once before a year or two ago but with another form. I just needed to clarify the reason.
This color spread is not really important. But this narrative anomaly that I'm talking about is major. For someone like me who like to understand who character are written and appreciate how coherent they are over the story, Carrot is a bug in the matrix. It's like major major. I would even say that for me (if Oda doesn't finish Carrot's story), I would consider this as one of the biggest mistake of Oda in One Piece.
I just know that something is up. I feel it in my narrative bones. Either something that Oda scrapped or something that Oda planned.
You are right on the second, it's not important either. And yet it is here. Just like it was not important to have Carrot at the center of Strawhats reuniting panel and yet she was here, just like it was not important to have her around the strawhat so much and yet.. she was here. Oda is doing a LOT of not so much important stuff with her and this is this fine line that is bothering me.
But the real deal is narrative. The incoherency is too big. It simply doesn't make sense. UNLESS we consider that it's not finished.
I'm not talking about Carrot as a strawhat here. But as an important or major character.
I know it's hard to communicate what I feel here because it's a lot of convergeance of many clues. I'm simply seeing the big picture of the character and there is a piece missing. Maybe Oda scrapped it, but it is supposed to be here.
Tinfoil hat ? Maybe. We will see.
This would help my point actually :/
Nah, I've been waiting to make this thread for a long time. In fact I think I already made it once before a year or two ago but with another form. I just needed to clarify the reason.
This color spread is not really important. But this narrative anomaly that I'm talking about is major. For someone like me who like to understand who character are written and appreciate how coherent they are over the story, Carrot is a bug in the matrix. It's like major major. I would even say that for me (if Oda doesn't finish Carrot's story), I would consider this as one of the biggest mistake of Oda in One Piece.
I just know that something is up. I feel it in my narrative bones. Either something that Oda scrapped or something that Oda planned.
You are right on the second, it's not important either. And yet it is here. Just like it was not important to have Carrot at the center of Strawhats reuniting panel and yet she was here, just like it was not important to have her around the strawhat so much and yet.. she was here. Oda is doing a LOT of not so much important stuff with her and this is this fine line that is bothering me.
But the real deal is narrative. The incoherency is too big. It simply doesn't make sense. UNLESS we consider that it's not finished.
I'm not talking about Carrot as a strawhat here. But as an important or major character.
I know it's hard to communicate what I feel here because it's a lot of convergeance of many clues. I'm simply seeing the big picture of the character and there is a piece missing. Maybe Oda scrapped it, but it is supposed to be here.
Tinfoil hat ? Maybe. We will see.
This would help my point actually :/
nah lol. I want to, but I'm always watching others things
Nah, I've been waiting to make this thread for a long time. In fact I think I already made it once before a year or two ago but with another form. I just needed to clarify the reason.
This color spread is not really important. But this narrative anomaly that I'm talking about is major. For someone like me who like to understand who character are written and appreciate how coherent they are over the story, Carrot is a bug in the matrix. It's like major major. I would even say that for me (if Oda doesn't finish Carrot's story), I would consider this as one of the biggest mistake of Oda in One Piece.
I just know that something is up. I feel it in my narrative bones. Either something that Oda scrapped or something that Oda planned.
You are right on the second, it's not important either. And yet it is here. Just like it was not important to have Carrot at the center of Strawhats reuniting panel and yet she was here, just like it was not important to have her around the strawhat so much and yet.. she was here. Oda is doing a LOT of not so much important stuff with her and this is this fine line that is bothering me.
But the real deal is narrative. The incoherency is too big. It simply doesn't make sense. UNLESS we consider that it's not finished.
I'm not talking about Carrot as a strawhat here. But as an important or major character.
I know it's hard to communicate what I feel here because it's a lot of convergeance of many clues. I'm simply seeing the big picture of the character and there is a piece missing. Maybe Oda scrapped it, but it is supposed to be here.
Tinfoil hat ? Maybe. We will see.
This would help my point actually :/
Nah, I've been waiting to make this thread for a long time. In fact I think I already made it once before a year or two ago but with another form. I just needed to clarify the reason.
This color spread is not really important. But this narrative anomaly that I'm talking about is major. For someone like me who like to understand who character are written and appreciate how coherent they are over the story, Carrot is a bug in the matrix. It's like major major. I would even say that for me (if Oda doesn't finish Carrot's story), I would consider this as one of the biggest mistake of Oda in One Piece.
I just know that something is up. I feel it in my narrative bones. Either something that Oda scrapped or something that Oda planned.
You are right on the second, it's not important either. And yet it is here. Just like it was not important to have Carrot at the center of Strawhats reuniting panel and yet she was here, just like it was not important to have her around the strawhat so much and yet.. she was here. Oda is doing a LOT of not so much important stuff with her and this is this fine line that is bothering me.
But the real deal is narrative. The incoherency is too big. It simply doesn't make sense. UNLESS we consider that it's not finished.
I'm not talking about Carrot as a strawhat here. But as an important or major character.
I know it's hard to communicate what I feel here because it's a lot of convergeance of many clues. I'm simply seeing the big picture of the character and there is a piece missing. Maybe Oda scrapped it, but it is supposed to be here.
Tinfoil hat ? Maybe. We will see.
This would help my point actually :/
But, I think you genuinely have far too much faith in Oda. He left so many plots unanswered, i.e Zoro visiting Ryuma's grave, that I just don't think it's worth it to spend so much time trying to theorize on whether or not he'll fix his mistakes.
At the end of the day, Oda just isn't that good at writing stories anymore. He can still hit the ball out the park with certain characters, for example Rocks Loki Harald and Gaban, but he generally doesn't even have new characters as good as Wyper or Perona anymore.
No
The rabbit got eaten. It's as if Oda wrote this specifically for the conejo fanclub. Aren't I right @Pot Goblin?
The rabbit got eaten. It's as if Oda wrote this specifically for the conejo fanclub. Aren't I right @Pot Goblin?
He didn't. That's what the fandom don't get. Oda ALWAYS finishes his character arcs. And for side characters, they are usually finished at the end of the passage of the strawhats.
Zoro visiting Ryuma's grave is not part of a character arc. It was simply a wish of Zoro, something that he did and that's it. There was never any promisses of Oda to developp some specific something there. Zoro wanted to pay hommage, that's all. People look at the story of Zoro in Wano, and focused on the sword. When the story of Zoro in Wano was never about the sword.
That's an exemple of fan putting their expectation over the interests of the story. Something that I'm very careful not to do here. Storylines, in stories are linked to specific things (needs, philosophical debate, goal, desire, weaknesses, defects, spectra, etc.). Thoses things are quantifiable when they are projected to an audience.
For ex, with what I know about Zoro, I know pretty much how Oda will end his storyline. (I could be completely wrong as I don't have the entire puzzle pieces but I have enough to guess with a good accuracy). And I'm simply doing the same thing with Carrot. (I'll do a thread about Zoro next).
Here.. I know and observe specific quantifiable traits and narrative "stuff" about carrot that are related to specific types of narrative pattern that leads me to believe that the story is unfinished. I often make the mistake of underestimating - like you say - Oda. I often think he misses stuff when he develop and setup his stories. But at EVERY turn I'm being proven wrong. Simply because I don't have the full picture.
I don't underestimate him because I idealize him, but because I know that the guy is GOOD at precisely hidding his game as I've experienced it hundreds of time before among two decades. And this time, I analyzed Carrot too much to be fooled.
I have a bundle of evidences, it's not just one thing but a lot of little things and a few major big narrative things. I know that something is not normal with that character. I've tried to refutate this times and times again, and I can't shake off the feeling.
Yeah.. maybe it's just...
But you guyz are definitely underestimating Oda, probably because of the environment here.
They are not the best character he has created. There are far better character in the last few arcs alone:
Kuma / Vegapunk / Kinemon / Oden / Denjiro / Hiyori
There are so many amazing and interesting character in the new world. Don't be fooled by the hate here. Oda is still doing an amazing narrative job. He is not just good, he is still amazing at telling stories. (not all of the time of course, some things are weaker, but mainly, it's fire)
One Piece is not trending everyweek for no reasons.
Zoro visiting Ryuma's grave is not part of a character arc. It was simply a wish of Zoro, something that he did and that's it. There was never any promisses of Oda to developp some specific something there. Zoro wanted to pay hommage, that's all. People look at the story of Zoro in Wano, and focused on the sword. When the story of Zoro in Wano was never about the sword.
That's an exemple of fan putting their expectation over the interests of the story. Something that I'm very careful not to do here. Storylines, in stories are linked to specific things (needs, philosophical debate, goal, desire, weaknesses, defects, spectra, etc.). Thoses things are quantifiable when they are projected to an audience.
For ex, with what I know about Zoro, I know pretty much how Oda will end his storyline. (I could be completely wrong as I don't have the entire puzzle pieces but I have enough to guess with a good accuracy). And I'm simply doing the same thing with Carrot. (I'll do a thread about Zoro next).
Here.. I know and observe specific quantifiable traits and narrative "stuff" about carrot that are related to specific types of narrative pattern that leads me to believe that the story is unfinished. I often make the mistake of underestimating - like you say - Oda. I often think he misses stuff when he develop and setup his stories. But at EVERY turn I'm being proven wrong. Simply because I don't have the full picture.
I don't underestimate him because I idealize him, but because I know that the guy is GOOD at precisely hidding his game as I've experienced it hundreds of time before among two decades. And this time, I analyzed Carrot too much to be fooled.
I have a bundle of evidences, it's not just one thing but a lot of little things and a few major big narrative things. I know that something is not normal with that character. I've tried to refutate this times and times again, and I can't shake off the feeling.
Yeah.. maybe it's just...
But you guyz are definitely underestimating Oda, probably because of the environment here.
They are not the best character he has created. There are far better character in the last few arcs alone:
Kuma / Vegapunk / Kinemon / Oden / Denjiro / Hiyori
There are so many amazing and interesting character in the new world. Don't be fooled by the hate here. Oda is still doing an amazing narrative job. He is not just good, he is still amazing at telling stories. (not all of the time of course, some things are weaker, but mainly, it's fire)
One Piece is not trending everyweek for no reasons.
?
These characters are amazing.
The year of the goat was in 2003, the volume was published in 2002. I think it's just a funny joke as they are both animals and it was indeed the year of the rabbit in 2023.
But that's just a funny distraction, what really interest me in the narration and it's lack of coherency in this case.
These characters are amazing.
The year of the goat was in 2003, the volume was published in 2002. I think it's just a funny joke as they are both animals and it was indeed the year of the rabbit in 2023.
But that's just a funny distraction, what really interest me in the narration and it's lack of coherency in this case.
dude he's a moron lol
supplied the evil government with sufficient fuel for an island wiping machine
studied the history of that evil government to find out they were in fact evil
gets surprised when said evil government who, again, randomly asked for fuel for a machine that specifically genocides an entire island in one fell swoop, is evil
is also surprised when the satellite he made to express his greed is greedy (and evil)
does nothing stop said satellite even after learning her plan
gets himself killed and nearly gets his designated guardian killed as well
what a genius
And Hiyori literally did nothing for the whole story
supplied the evil government with sufficient fuel for an island wiping machine
studied the history of that evil government to find out they were in fact evil
gets surprised when said evil government who, again, randomly asked for fuel for a machine that specifically genocides an entire island in one fell swoop, is evil
is also surprised when the satellite he made to express his greed is greedy (and evil)
does nothing stop said satellite even after learning her plan
gets himself killed and nearly gets his designated guardian killed as well
what a genius
And Hiyori literally did nothing for the whole story
True
We are always surprised by evil, even when we know it's present. You are confusing confusion with sideration
True
Also true
Also true
You described me a flawed character, not a bad one here.
As Luffy once said:
- Vegapunk has a lot of faith in people > So he kept trusting
- Vegapunk was an empathic man even while being a genius > So he was still shocked by the horror of Saturn
- Vegapunk was too focused on trying to do something for the world and his own selfish dream so he made a deal with the devil
- Vegapunk completely failed to understand who he really was : So he underestimated his greed while overestimating his evilness
- He learned the plan and planned ahead and managed to 3D chess the F out of everyone. Most people, like you it seems, completely missunderstood the fact that his plan was actually genius lol. The fact of doing nothing WAS part of the plan. DOing nothing was the only way to prevent the governement from finding out their true plan adn the location of the snail. They had to make sure everything was set in motion to prevent for the governement to find their truth. Doing something about York would have triggered instant punishment and Saturn being a scientist they would've find out where the snail was in minutes.. but not this time. This time York mislead them herself, because she was completely unaware of their plan. That's the beauty of doing nothing. It saved them.
And as such, it made vegapunk, the genius scientist who is supposed to know everything, go to his death with absolutely ZERO knowledge of the reason behind the importance of dying. He simply learned to trust himself. And that's the beauty of Vegapunk.
Something that 99% of people on this thread completely missed because they are to narrow minded to understand that a good character that is supposed to be smart is not necessarily a character that needs to be smart and good.
Vegapunk (and this is one of the reason why I get this PP) is a highly nuanced character that was massively flawed and massively smart. A character that made big mistake that cost him his life and learned to do better to become a force for good.
Vegapunk choose to trust himself, trust the best part of himself (Lilith, the side that he didn't recognized at first as worthy of his trust) and finally choose to trust Luffy. To go ahead and stop the governement. (And I think - even if I can be wrong - that he didn't actually let them secure the mother flame. I believe it's a lure.)
Vegapunk is an amazing character for those reason. It's all in the nuances and the subtext. Just like many characters in One Piece. Just like Hiyori.
You guyz need to think beyond.
>>>>>
We are always surprised by evil, even when we know it's present. You are confusing confusion with sideration
True
Also true
Also true
You described me a flawed character, not a bad one here.
As Luffy once said:
- Vegapunk has a lot of faith in people > So he kept trusting
- Vegapunk was an empathic man even while being a genius > So he was still shocked by the horror of Saturn
- Vegapunk was too focused on trying to do something for the world and his own selfish dream so he made a deal with the devil
- Vegapunk completely failed to understand who he really was : So he underestimated his greed while overestimating his evilness
- He learned the plan and planned ahead and managed to 3D chess the F out of everyone. Most people, like you it seems, completely missunderstood the fact that his plan was actually genius lol. The fact of doing nothing WAS part of the plan. DOing nothing was the only way to prevent the governement from finding out their true plan adn the location of the snail. They had to make sure everything was set in motion to prevent for the governement to find their truth. Doing something about York would have triggered instant punishment and Saturn being a scientist they would've find out where the snail was in minutes.. but not this time. This time York mislead them herself, because she was completely unaware of their plan. That's the beauty of doing nothing. It saved them.
And as such, it made vegapunk, the genius scientist who is supposed to know everything, go to his death with absolutely ZERO knowledge of the reason behind the importance of dying. He simply learned to trust himself. And that's the beauty of Vegapunk.
Something that 99% of people on this thread completely missed because they are to narrow minded to understand that a good character that is supposed to be smart is not necessarily a character that needs to be smart and good.
Vegapunk (and this is one of the reason why I get this PP) is a highly nuanced character that was massively flawed and massively smart. A character that made big mistake that cost him his life and learned to do better to become a force for good.
Vegapunk choose to trust himself, trust the best part of himself (Lilith, the side that he didn't recognized at first as worthy of his trust) and finally choose to trust Luffy. To go ahead and stop the governement. (And I think - even if I can be wrong - that he didn't actually let them secure the mother flame. I believe it's a lure.)
Vegapunk is an amazing character for those reason. It's all in the nuances and the subtext. Just like many characters in One Piece. Just like Hiyori.
You guyz need to think beyond.
>>>>>
