Forgive the text wall lol.
So this will not be a Shanks hate thread. This is actually something I’ve been thinking about pretty intensely lately lol.
With Shanks, I can’t escape the feeling that his inclusion at the end of the Marineford actually made the story less interesting. Why do I say this?
Well, lets take a look at Shanks’ absence from the story, and from there we can see how Shanks’ inclusion enhances the story and improves its quality.
Let’s say Shanks never shows up to Marineford. Let’s say the story were to have continued on without him showing up. What would’ve happened? Let’s start with the obvious-the fighting would’ve simply continued, as the Marines would not have had any incentive to stop and would’ve continued pursuing the Pirates. If this would’ve happened, then we would’ve been looking at a few variations on two different outcomes:
Outcome 1-the Marines would’ve defeated Marco and Blackbeard but the pirates escape/retreat and live to fight again
Outcome 2-Blackbeard and his crew would’ve defeated the Marines and/or sunk Marine Headquarters.
Now sure either party could’ve not been defeated, but let’s just ignore these outcomes as this is what happens when Shanks shows up anyway lol.
So is it just me or...is each of these outcomes actually more interesting than what we actually got? Shanks ending Marineford seems to have served no narrative purpose whatsoever aside from a vein attempt to give Shanks some hype for no good story reason whatsoever (more on this later). Let’s look at each outcome and explain why it’s themes are better than what actually happened:
Outcome 1
If the Marines would’ve actually defeated Marco and Blackbeard, this would’ve created some major hype and intimidation around the new era of Marines and the Justice they are trying to impose. The world would’ve seen the Navy defeat Whitebeard and Blackbeard in succession which would’ve made us as the reader take the threat of the Navy much more seriously going into the post-timeskip. We would’ve further felt the influence of “Absolute Justice” take hold, which advances themes and plots from Alabasta, Ohara, Enies Lobby, etc.
Oda actually half-asses this attempt by giving the Marines to Akainu anyway post timeskip and having the new Marines operate more under his Absolute Justice agenda than Sengoku’s more moral justice. We get Akainu moving his headquarters into the New World, and the SSG and the draft and all that.
But then Oda chooses to subvert expectations by rigging the Navy with inner turmoil and neutering Fleet Admiral Akainu via politics and such.
I can’t help but feel Oda failed on two accounts here:
1. If Oda’s goal was to hype the new Navy under Akainu, then he undercut his own effort by having Shanks end the war right when we could’ve seen the new “Absolute Justice” on a rampage. We could’ve seen the real threat the Navy posed up close and personal. Imagine Oda would’ve focused even more on Akainu and the Marines following him into his crusade against piracy. This would’ve felt like a natural escalation of plots already introduced, as the threat of Absolute Justice taking root in the Navy has gradually increased as the story has progressed.
2. If Oda’s goal was to subvert expectations by having the Navy fall plague to politics, then having the Navy present a bigger threat to begin with would’ve served this point better, as expectations would’ve been subverted even harder. Imagine the Navy having defeated Marco and Absolute Justice taking a firmer hold, and then Akainu’s Navy getting torn apart internally from politics anyway. This would’ve also enhanced Fujitora’s storyline as one of the main influencers of the Navy’s political troubles.
Whether we view the Oda’s goal with the Navy’s post timeskip storyline as one of hype, or subversion, Oda failed at an opportunity to do both in a more effective way by having Shanks end the Marineford War.
Outcome 2
So let’s say the Blackbeard Pirates would’ve actually sunk Marineford. The HQ sinks but Aokiji freezes the sea for the Marines themselves to not drown or something. Blackbeard then retreats into the New World, and this would’ve better set the stage for Akainu building a new Marine Headquarters in the New World as well as the growing animosity towards criminals within the Marines.
This ending would’ve served multiple different story aspects in a much better way than we got:
1. This would’ve, obviously, hyped the Blackbeard Pirates much more effectively. Marine HQ was already wrecked beyond repair by Whitebeard anyway, why not finish the job and further parallel Blackbeard as the post-timeskip ‘evil’ Whitebeard?
2. This would’ve given the post timeskip Navy a greater sense of urgency and would’ve further radicalized Marines into Absolute Justice, better establishing them as a more relevant threat as the story progresses. Some might be thinking that the threat of the Navy would’ve been downplayed from this, but I challenge you to look at Luffy when he was first defeated by Lucci or Crocodile, and tell me that his threat level diminished when his defeat gave him the resolve to defeat Croc and Lucci later on.
Would these points not have been served more effectively had Shanks not have shown up and stopped the story from progressing?
Now, I know what you’re thinking:
“But Lee, we don’t know for what story purpose Oda had Shanks ended the war. Be patient, Oda is sure to make this clear in the future.”
To which I respond:
It is 2020, 9 years after Shanks ended the War, and it is still unclear exactly what theme or story purpose is enhanced because Oda chose Shanks end the war. Forgive me for thinking that waiting 10 years just to understand a story on a basic level is too much.
Some might also think that Shanks hype is just as important to the story as Blackbeard hype, but it is not. Blackbeard is an antagonist, there is merit behind his hype. The more Blackbeard is hyped, the greater Luffy’s triumph when he defeats Blackbeard. Shanks will most likely wind up an ally in the future, and so every ounce of his hype just goes to diminish any future conflicts Shanks might help Luffy to overcome. Conflicts that are overcome because you have a really overpowered teammate aren’t usually that memorable, but conflicts overcome against a really overwhelming foe are.
I feel like Oda only had Shanks in the war because it’s fan-servicy. Oda was like “hey you know Shanks? People really like that guy. I’m going to have him end the Marineford War.”
I remember I heard in an interview or something that Oda decided before he had fully figured Marineford out that he was going to have Shanks end the war. Like he really didn’t fully understand the story he was about to tell but he knew how he was going to end it lol. But this isn’t how you tell a good story. You don’t make up the ending, and then come up with themes, narrative, etc..you come up with theme and narrative first, and then decide on an ending which best serves those ideas.
Oda literally did the opposite with Shanks ending Marineford, and I think the story overall suffered because of it.
Some Tags:
@TheAncientCenturion @Jew D. Boy @Light D Lamperouge @Shuyaku @HA001 @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @ShishioIsBack @Seth @MarineHQ62 @silverfire @Van @Marimo_420 @Zowo @Dragomir @Garp the Fist @Bogard @Pantheos @Gol D. Roger @comrade @Sentinel @playa4321 @RayanOO @Chrono Etc
So this will not be a Shanks hate thread. This is actually something I’ve been thinking about pretty intensely lately lol.
With Shanks, I can’t escape the feeling that his inclusion at the end of the Marineford actually made the story less interesting. Why do I say this?
Well, lets take a look at Shanks’ absence from the story, and from there we can see how Shanks’ inclusion enhances the story and improves its quality.
Let’s say Shanks never shows up to Marineford. Let’s say the story were to have continued on without him showing up. What would’ve happened? Let’s start with the obvious-the fighting would’ve simply continued, as the Marines would not have had any incentive to stop and would’ve continued pursuing the Pirates. If this would’ve happened, then we would’ve been looking at a few variations on two different outcomes:
Outcome 1-the Marines would’ve defeated Marco and Blackbeard but the pirates escape/retreat and live to fight again
Outcome 2-Blackbeard and his crew would’ve defeated the Marines and/or sunk Marine Headquarters.
Now sure either party could’ve not been defeated, but let’s just ignore these outcomes as this is what happens when Shanks shows up anyway lol.
So is it just me or...is each of these outcomes actually more interesting than what we actually got? Shanks ending Marineford seems to have served no narrative purpose whatsoever aside from a vein attempt to give Shanks some hype for no good story reason whatsoever (more on this later). Let’s look at each outcome and explain why it’s themes are better than what actually happened:
Outcome 1
If the Marines would’ve actually defeated Marco and Blackbeard, this would’ve created some major hype and intimidation around the new era of Marines and the Justice they are trying to impose. The world would’ve seen the Navy defeat Whitebeard and Blackbeard in succession which would’ve made us as the reader take the threat of the Navy much more seriously going into the post-timeskip. We would’ve further felt the influence of “Absolute Justice” take hold, which advances themes and plots from Alabasta, Ohara, Enies Lobby, etc.
Oda actually half-asses this attempt by giving the Marines to Akainu anyway post timeskip and having the new Marines operate more under his Absolute Justice agenda than Sengoku’s more moral justice. We get Akainu moving his headquarters into the New World, and the SSG and the draft and all that.
But then Oda chooses to subvert expectations by rigging the Navy with inner turmoil and neutering Fleet Admiral Akainu via politics and such.
I can’t help but feel Oda failed on two accounts here:
1. If Oda’s goal was to hype the new Navy under Akainu, then he undercut his own effort by having Shanks end the war right when we could’ve seen the new “Absolute Justice” on a rampage. We could’ve seen the real threat the Navy posed up close and personal. Imagine Oda would’ve focused even more on Akainu and the Marines following him into his crusade against piracy. This would’ve felt like a natural escalation of plots already introduced, as the threat of Absolute Justice taking root in the Navy has gradually increased as the story has progressed.
2. If Oda’s goal was to subvert expectations by having the Navy fall plague to politics, then having the Navy present a bigger threat to begin with would’ve served this point better, as expectations would’ve been subverted even harder. Imagine the Navy having defeated Marco and Absolute Justice taking a firmer hold, and then Akainu’s Navy getting torn apart internally from politics anyway. This would’ve also enhanced Fujitora’s storyline as one of the main influencers of the Navy’s political troubles.
Whether we view the Oda’s goal with the Navy’s post timeskip storyline as one of hype, or subversion, Oda failed at an opportunity to do both in a more effective way by having Shanks end the Marineford War.
Outcome 2
So let’s say the Blackbeard Pirates would’ve actually sunk Marineford. The HQ sinks but Aokiji freezes the sea for the Marines themselves to not drown or something. Blackbeard then retreats into the New World, and this would’ve better set the stage for Akainu building a new Marine Headquarters in the New World as well as the growing animosity towards criminals within the Marines.
This ending would’ve served multiple different story aspects in a much better way than we got:
1. This would’ve, obviously, hyped the Blackbeard Pirates much more effectively. Marine HQ was already wrecked beyond repair by Whitebeard anyway, why not finish the job and further parallel Blackbeard as the post-timeskip ‘evil’ Whitebeard?
2. This would’ve given the post timeskip Navy a greater sense of urgency and would’ve further radicalized Marines into Absolute Justice, better establishing them as a more relevant threat as the story progresses. Some might be thinking that the threat of the Navy would’ve been downplayed from this, but I challenge you to look at Luffy when he was first defeated by Lucci or Crocodile, and tell me that his threat level diminished when his defeat gave him the resolve to defeat Croc and Lucci later on.
Would these points not have been served more effectively had Shanks not have shown up and stopped the story from progressing?
Now, I know what you’re thinking:
“But Lee, we don’t know for what story purpose Oda had Shanks ended the war. Be patient, Oda is sure to make this clear in the future.”
To which I respond:
It is 2020, 9 years after Shanks ended the War, and it is still unclear exactly what theme or story purpose is enhanced because Oda chose Shanks end the war. Forgive me for thinking that waiting 10 years just to understand a story on a basic level is too much.
Some might also think that Shanks hype is just as important to the story as Blackbeard hype, but it is not. Blackbeard is an antagonist, there is merit behind his hype. The more Blackbeard is hyped, the greater Luffy’s triumph when he defeats Blackbeard. Shanks will most likely wind up an ally in the future, and so every ounce of his hype just goes to diminish any future conflicts Shanks might help Luffy to overcome. Conflicts that are overcome because you have a really overpowered teammate aren’t usually that memorable, but conflicts overcome against a really overwhelming foe are.
I feel like Oda only had Shanks in the war because it’s fan-servicy. Oda was like “hey you know Shanks? People really like that guy. I’m going to have him end the Marineford War.”
I remember I heard in an interview or something that Oda decided before he had fully figured Marineford out that he was going to have Shanks end the war. Like he really didn’t fully understand the story he was about to tell but he knew how he was going to end it lol. But this isn’t how you tell a good story. You don’t make up the ending, and then come up with themes, narrative, etc..you come up with theme and narrative first, and then decide on an ending which best serves those ideas.
Oda literally did the opposite with Shanks ending Marineford, and I think the story overall suffered because of it.
Some Tags:
@TheAncientCenturion @Jew D. Boy @Light D Lamperouge @Shuyaku @HA001 @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @ShishioIsBack @Seth @MarineHQ62 @silverfire @Van @Marimo_420 @Zowo @Dragomir @Garp the Fist @Bogard @Pantheos @Gol D. Roger @comrade @Sentinel @playa4321 @RayanOO @Chrono Etc
