[Discussion] the Idead that destructed my believing in God

H

humanbeing

#22
If you are willing to read and don't mind looking at the atheism from an Islamic viewpoint, I would advise you to read "The divine Reality: God, Islam and the Mirage if the Atheism" a book by Hamza andreas Tzortzis.
 
#23
If a god ordain a child that bears no sin must live in a missery he is no god i wanna believe in
idk which god you're talking about but mine made most of his prophets live through turbulence and misery not one doubted his divinity coz they know he fulfills his promise
that after every hardship comes ease..and his religion is still reverberating through 1.7 billion people.. today as we speak

and those 1.7 billion get persecuted for being Muslims by the world and get killed en massacred . yet have their faith in their lord remains unwavered....


what you're essentially doing is.. blaming God for the repercussions we induce, for the situations we create.. now tell me how is god responsible for this when he let us rock the staff of independence?
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If you are willing to read and don't mind looking at the atheism from an Islamic viewpoint, I would advise you to read "The divine Reality: God, Islam and the Mirage if the Atheism" a book by Hamza andreas Tzortzis.
Hamza is a great speaker
 
#24
If a god ordain a child that bears no sin must live in a missery he is no god i wanna believe in
Do you know why People get Sick? It's so that Others can Heal them
Why People are Poor? It's so that Rich People can Help them
Why do we start as Babies? It's so that our Parents (or Others) take Care of us

What Good can we be if everyone is Rich, everyone is Healthy, everyone doesn't Sin, everyone start their Lives Mature?
To be "Good", then "Bad" must Exist
To be "Rewarded or Thanked" then a Problem or Need must have been Provided ... etc

We suffer, so that others have a Chance to become Better
This Life is for you to reach your Full Good Potential, and for each other, we must be Patient & Endure
It's all for sake for one another

You cannot Benefit God, he doesn't need you, all of this is for You
Our Prophet said: "None of you will believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself."
It's clear that Faith cannot be established until you first accept that we share this Life together
That we are meant to care for each other & accept these hardships

We are literally Born after an Extreme Pain that our Mothers had to Endure
Am i going to say that Pain is Bad? Ofc not, her Patience for few Months, gave me a Full Lifetime.
The Idea of After-Life is literally experienced by each & every one of us the Moment we are born

We spent Months in Darkness & then we were Introduced to this Life, can you go back to your Mother's Womb? That's impossible
Same thing for this Life, we are just enduring it for some time & then we travel to where we truly belong

Humans were created to become Greatest Creation of God, and you can't become so unless you do Good out of your own Free Will,
And you cannot be Good unless there is Bad, unless there are others with Problems that you are Provided Solutions to, this way we can exchange Help & become better Humans
 

Adam 🍎

Smirking whore of Highgarden
.
#26
what you're essentially doing is.. blaming God for the repercussions we induce, for the situations we create.. now tell me how is god responsible for this when he let us rock the staff of independence?
Oh i dont blame the god for our fuck ups

I blame the god for fuck ups beyond our reach.

Do you know why People get Sick? It's so that Others can Heal them
Why People are Poor? It's so that Rich People can Help them
Why do we start as Babies? It's so that our Parents (or Others) take Care of us

What Good can we be if everyone is Rich, everyone is Healthy, everyone doesn't Sin, everyone start their Lives Mature?
To be "Good", then "Bad" must Exist
To be "Rewarded or Thanked" then a Problem or Need must have been Provided ... etc

We suffer, so that others have a Chance to become Better
This Life is for you to reach your Full Good Potential, and for each other, we must be Patient & Endure
It's all for sake for one another

You cannot Benefit God, he doesn't need you, all of this is for You
Our Prophet said: "None of you will believe until you love for your brother what you love for yourself."
It's clear that Faith cannot be established until you first accept that we share this Life together
That we are meant to care for each other & accept these hardships

We are literally Born after an Extreme Pain that our Mothers had to Endure
Am i going to say that Pain is Bad? Ofc not, her Patience for few Months, gave me a Full Lifetime.
The Idea of After-Life is literally experienced by each & every one of us the Moment we are born

We spent Months in Darkness & then we were Introduced to this Life, can you go back to your Mother's Womb? That's impossible
Same thing for this Life, we are just enduring it for some time & then we travel to where we truly belong

Humans were created to become Greatest Creation of God, and you can't become so unless you do Good out of your own Free Will,
And you cannot be Good unless there is Bad, unless there are others with Problems that you are Provided Solutions to, this way we can exchange Help & become better Humans
I'm sure all those children that suffer pointlessly agree with you
 
#27
The problem isn't with the Answer you gave yourself, it's already in the Question
I will ask you a question, have you ever met a Short Tall Guy? or Fat Skinny Guy?
And can you guess if my Male Friend gave birth to a Boy or Girl?

You wrote two Contradictive Statements about God & then blamed it on Him & concluded he doesn't Exist
No offence, but your Logic was already Flawed to begin with

We don't talk about such things, mainly what does God do to himself, that's not in our Knowledge & we cannot comprehend Nature of God, why? Because we are neither God, nor there is Anything like Him, nor can we Study his Nature cuz Nothing can be used against him

Actually this whole Topic implies we have Ability to study God's Nature & understand how things Effect him, but if he can be Effected by other things or if he can be Studied by other things, then he isn't Above Everything, that means you're not talking about God, you're talking about something else

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What you should concern yourself with is "Definition of God", not "Nature of God"
And He is indeed All Powerful & All Knowing & Above All

You also said that if God exists, then He would have helped you Find him
But again, you're assuming things, how can We Humans who don't even know what will other Humans decide, be aware of what God does?

Saying that you know what God must do means that you either don't consider him All Powerful & he doesn't have Free Will or that you have Knowledge of being a God which is clearly Wrong

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I will tell you one thing, you don't have to Listen to Religious people, nor do you have to Ask yourself
Because neither Yourself nor other People can make anyone Find or Not Find God

What Atheists should really be asking is not ---> Does God Exist?
Cuz he isn't some kind of Rare Creature waiting for us to Prove his Existence, this isn't a Test about Intellect
Being Above All, means that only Him can decide who finds Him & who doesn't

So even if you bring Smartest Atheist & no matter what they say, how can they prove that it wasn't God who let them reach such Wrong Conclusions about him because He doesn't want them to Find him? (At least not yet)

Correct Question should be ---> What are Requirements for God to Guide me?
God is not a Door that you're Tasked to Study & Unlock with a Key
God is a Door that can only be Opened if you Knock & God decides to let you Enter

As simple as that, so we ask ourselves, what kind of People should We be to be allowed Entry? Cuz this is Ruler of Everything behind the Door, no one can force their way in, and those who aren't allowed to, will only start to think there is Nothing behind it

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The Answer is very simple
There are People who aren't really Smart, there are people who are Blind, Deaf, Hurt ... etc
But there is Something that can be found in every Single Human, and that is "Heart"

Finding God is not Test of Intellect cuz that would mean only Smartest People can Find him
It's not Test of Physical Endurance, not Test of Power, not Test of Vision & getting Lectured ... etc
It's just a Test of Faith, God only requires your Heart, nothing more, nothing less, the Rest comes after that

God sees what's Inside us, something that we Humans are unable to no matter how Long we know a Person
And God only guides those who truly want Him & need his Guidance

But someone who deep inside says "I don't need God", then why should God help him?
Someone who says "I wanna find Proof of God but i won't follow him even if i do", why should God help him?
Someone who says "I don't care about God, i just wanna Find him", why should God help them?
Someone who says "I don't know if God exists, but i will just Live my Life & forget about him", why should they be Guided?

You either Want & Need God, or You believe you're Separated from Him or Worse, Against him
There is no Middle Ground, it's only these Two Sides, either you're With God, or Don't Care/Against Him

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If you want Guidance, don't Ask yourself, don't Ask anybody, whether they are Religious or Atheists
Ask only God, just make sure your Heart is Pure & you have Good Intentions & willing to Follow him no matter what Answer you get
You must never be Biased toward any Belief or Disbelief, it's God first & then comes Religion, not Vice Versa

Just think about this Single Phrase "If God is Above All, then Only Him can Guide me"
Accept this Statement & then you get your Final Answer, either you remain an Atheist or you be Guided
Like you said "The definition of god(:zosmug:)"

But to be serious. It's all about if God exists or doesn't.

If 'god' isn't omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent then they should not be labeled 'god'. Then whatever is 'trying' to be god, is just a terrible being.

But if God are those things, why is there need for existence?

The biggest thing for me would be whether or not god is omni or not. If God is, then I would question the need for existence, especially if there are such things as heaven/hell. Which would make the existence of 'God' extremely cruel to existence.

If god isn't omni, then I would hold a fervor distaste with the being(s) that is/are trying to be 'god'. Because then it would simply be an extremely cruel act by something that is trying to play 'omnipotence'
 

Adam 🍎

Smirking whore of Highgarden
.
#28
Like you said "The definition of god(:zosmug:)"

But to be serious. It's all about if God exists or doesn't.

If 'god' isn't omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent then they should not be labeled 'god'. Then whatever is 'trying' to be god, is just a terrible being.

But if God are those things, why is there need for existence?

The biggest thing for me would be whether or not god is omni or not. If God is, then I would question the need for existence, especially if there are such things as heaven/hell. Which would make the existence of 'God' extremely cruel to existence.

If god isn't omni, then I would hold a fervor distaste with the being(s) that is/are trying to be 'god'. Because then it would simple be an extremely cruel act by something that is trying to play 'omnipotence'
Can a god create a rock heavy enough he cant lift it type of shit
 
#29
Can a god create a rock heavy enough he cant lift it type of shit
an omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent being can only be "nothing". "Nothing" would be the definition of god. So the answer would be both yes and no.
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Humans were created to become Greatest Creation of God, and you can't become so unless you do Good out of your own Free Will,
And you cannot be Good unless there is Bad, unless there are others with Problems that you are Provided Solutions to, this way we can exchange Help & become better Humans
But isn't that the problem? It's simply a cruel act. "No existence" should be preferable to others having to suffer and others persevering. There is no person you can meet who can factually say they abhorred "not" existing, because there was nothing before you were born. Existence is/would be too cruel if a judging "god" exists.
 
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#30
I'm sure all those children that suffer pointlessly agree with you
I'm pretty sure they don't agree with someone who thinks they are "Pointless"
If someone is Born Sick & live all their Life Sick, that means they are "Pointless"?
We are better than them?

Believing in God = Believing everything has a Meaning, a Worth, a Purpose
Not Believing in God = Everything is Pointless

It's like you're telling Everyone "You're Pointless, a Waste"
You're not Hurting God by not believing in Him, you're Hurting Humanity & all of Existence

I'm not saying you're not Free to believe whatever you want, but don't call Anyone or their Life & Experiences "Pointless"
Because if Misery have No Purpose, then why should Joy have Purpose?
Why People should care whether others are feeling Safe & Happy & Peaceful?
 
#32
Like you said "The definition of god(:zosmug:)"

But to be serious. It's all about if God exists or doesn't.

If 'god' isn't omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent then they should not be labeled 'god'. Then whatever is 'trying' to be god, is just a terrible being.

But if God are those things, why is there need for existence?

The biggest thing for me would be whether or not god is omni or not. If God is, then I would question the need for existence, especially if there are such things as heaven/hell. Which would make the existence of 'God' extremely cruel to existence.

If god isn't omni, then I would hold a fervor distaste with the being(s) that is/are trying to be 'god'. Because then it would simply be an extremely cruel act by something that is trying to play 'omnipotence'
God is Not "Omnipresent"
 
#33
No. Life is life

I dont see how a child born in 3 world country to utter misery is a test
There’s no excuse for horrible things. You’re right with that.
I think the main problem is that mankind gave God attributes which belong to a human. An old man with a beard sitting in throne above the clouds... that’s just wrong. They turned their own egoistic thoughts into "God" and used the term "God" for themselves.
I would recommend the movie PK from Aamir Khan. It’s a great movie for religious people and atheists.
Personally I believe that God is not comparable with anything. God is God and that’s it. God created us with love and send us many prophets but we killed or ignored them. We are free beings with a mind, because questioning things is important. You can divide good from evil with questioning. God is outside creating but he’s also within his creation and is going the journey with us. He’s in our heart, we’re connected through love.
That’s what I think. I don’t believe in a God who sits and enjoys this shit show and suffering on this earth. Only mankind would be so cruel and look at our politicians and leaders, they’re the best example
 
#34
Like you said "The definition of god(:zosmug:)"

But to be serious. It's all about if God exists or doesn't.

If 'god' isn't omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent then they should not be labeled 'god'. Then whatever is 'trying' to be god, is just a terrible being.

But if God are those things, why is there need for existence?

The biggest thing for me would be whether or not god is omni or not. If God is, then I would question the need for existence, especially if there are such things as heaven/hell. Which would make the existence of 'God' extremely cruel to existence.

If god isn't omni, then I would hold a fervor distaste with the being(s) that is/are trying to be 'god'. Because then it would simply be an extremely cruel act by something that is trying to play 'omnipotence'
thats just imposing our shortcomings and our faults on god who gave you will to do whatever you want.. again that goes to show your understanding of god..you call him cruel for consequences of our deeds everything that humans have done you blame at him but under what pretext? that he's god? how is that rational thinking?

how are you coming to such conclusions regarding god when you don't even know god's reasoning on life...

what you're essentially doing is saying... consequences to my deeds exist and i suffer from them.. since i suffer god doesn't exist..

like bruh what's your understanding of god in the first place?
 
#36
But isn't that the problem? It's simply a cruel act. "No existence" should be preferable to others having to suffer and others persevering. There is no person you can meet who can factually say they abhorred "not" existing, because there was nothing before you were born. Existence is/would be too cruel if a judging "god" exists.
It's very simple
God Exists ---> He Creates ---> His Creations Submit to Him (They Live happily under his Rule)

So far so Good, but God then decided to Create Us, a Being capable of becoming "Greatest Creation"
For Us to achieve such Title, we must have "Free Will", because a Creation that Follows God with it's Free Will is better than Creation that is already made to Follow God always

Now once these Humans with Free Will exist, they will obviously Follow God, Unless God creates a Second Option for them,
Their Purpose is to make that Choice themselves, so there must be a Second Path other than God.
And this is why Life exists, it's a Balance between Good & Bad where it's truly your Choice whether you Follow God or Not

But don't worry, God didn't force us into this Risky Trial
In our Religion, God says that we All met him before this Life & he asked each one of us about this Life Test
Every Human who is Alive today or ever Lived or ever will be, said "Yes"

Others who said "No" didn't become Humans nor were they given this Test
Meaning they abandoned the chance to go to Heaven & Live greater than any other Creation but they avoided Risk of going to Hell

To simply put it, God created us to Elevate us & he gave us the Choice, First Choice was to take this Test & Second Choice is answering this Test & either Choose God or be against him

That memory isn't with us now, cuz it obviously makes the Test pointless
But Humans shouldn't complain nor blame anyone, we accepted our Nature, we want to become Better, so we should earn Heaven
 

Zolo

Cool Story Brother
.
#39
That’s interesting. I know being Pagan is more than that but I also celebrate the winter solstice etc. in my own way. I’m praising God and not Gods or the sun. I think some pagan traditions are great and the connection with nature is important.
Do you believe in Norse Gods or in other ones?
I believe in samagotia gods. Its our traditional revived religion called romuva... we have our own epic mythology... Im currently drawing a web comic based on our pagan myths... its about lost napaleon retraeting soldier from russia... he expiriences oir gods and mythos
 

Adam 🍎

Smirking whore of Highgarden
.
#40
whats his reach in brief words or expound it as you like.. from your knowledge of him
How is my fault an earthquake hits some town in chile and kills thousands? How it is my fault a kid is born with genetical mistake and is sick from day 1 one? How is it our fault so many things out of our reach happen?
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There’s no excuse for horrible things. You’re right with that.
I think the main problem is that mankind gave God attributes which belong to a human. An old man with a beard sitting in throne above the clouds... that’s just wrong. They turned their own egoistic thoughts into "God" and used the term "God" for themselves.
I would recommend the movie PK from Aamir Khan. It’s a great movie for religious people and atheists.
Personally I believe that God is not comparable with anything. God is God and that’s it. God created us with love and send us many prophets but we killed or ignored them. We are free beings with a mind, because questioning things is important. You can divide good from evil with questioning. God is outside creating but he’s also within his creation and is going the journey with us. He’s in our heart, we’re connected through love.
That’s what I think. I don’t believe in a God who sits and enjoys this shit show and suffering on this earth. Only mankind would be so cruel and look at our politicians and leaders, they’re the best example
God created man to his image

So either god looks like us or behaves like us
 
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