Chapter Discussion Do you think oda rushed up with flashback ?

[Diamond]

After thinking about it for awhile, I realized Oden is the primary problem and the source behind most of my complaints. He is the driving force of this arc and the protagonist of this flashback, but don't find him endearing in the slightest. Every other part was enjoyable from Kinemon's backstory, to Whitebeard's involvement, and Roger's final voyage.

However, I'm starting to question if it's being done on purpose? Like the story set up Oden to be an amazing guy, but the flashback contradicts it. Oden found one piece, but he lost his country. The story made us think he was an admirable ruler, but he really wasn't cut out for it. Oden was also made out to be a naive fool by wasting five years trusting in the promises of untrustworthy people. Afterwards his redemption battle against Kaido was rather brief and not what I was expecting. What kind of payoff is Oda going for here, and why set up such a contrast?

Obviously Oden and Toki will sacrifice themselves at the end to save the scabbards. I expect that much, but perhaps there's something else I'm missing or at least I hope there is. :unsure:

 

[Jew D. Boy]

After thinking about it for awhile, I realized Oden is the primary problem and the source behind most of my complaints. He is the driving force of this arc and the protagonist of this flashback, but don't find him endearing in the slightest. Every other part was enjoyable from Kinemon's backstory, to Whitebeard's involvement, and Roger's final voyage.

However, I'm starting to question if it's being done on purpose? Like the story set up Oden to be an amazing guy, but the flashback contradicts it. Oden found one piece, but he lost his country. The story made us think he was an admirable ruler, but he really wasn't cut out for it. Oden was also made out to be a naive fool by wasting five years trusting in the promises of untrustworthy people. Afterwards his redemption battle against Kaido was rather brief and not what I was expecting. What kind of payoff is Oda going for here, and why set up such a contrast?

Obviously Oden and Toki will sacrifice themselves at the end to save the scabbards. I expect that much, but perhaps there's something else I'm missing or at least I hope there is. :unsure:

This is basically a more eloquently worded version of my comment and many others. Oden doesn’t come off looking good at any point in this flashback, and the central action of this arc (and the entire Yonko saga to this point) hinges on us rooting for the people still fighting for his supposed cause...but we watched him run rampant in his homeland, leave behind all his friends to go on an adventure, come home without doing anything constructive, and then dies (currently unseen) before he could really save the country he swore to protect.

More and more, I’m hoping that Toki is somehow alive and can justify all the bullshit we’ve seen her husband do and go through...otherwise, not only are all the citizens of Wano getting a raw deal, we as readers do too. I have to hope Oda can write himself out of this, especially since it’s clearly the beginning of the end.

 

[MasterD]

We had more than enough

 

[Rukusho]

One Piece has been running since 1997.

One Piece was in need of being kicked into high gear, a lot of people complaining comes down to selective reading, and simply comprehension issues.

There are some readers claiming Oden was one-shotted when the fight has been stated to have been going on for quite sometime, the story so far has never been about battling it's centered around story & characters third comes the fights (fights don't take priority)

I don't believe there is an issue currently, in fact I'm happy with the pace.

Oda would like to end One Piece (he'd like to retire by 50 y.old) and were close to the climax of the series (few years) there is no longer a need to spend time on unnecessary characters and usless battle scenes Oda will skip the useless scenes and skip to a clash with the narrator covering any questions.

The pacing is fine the selective reading is the issue.

 

[Finalbeta]

We had more than enough

I don't remember a 3 months long one in perhaps forever

 

[Chrono]

He wasted all that time on irrelevant unneeded things. Narratively who tf cares about Roger and WB in Wano...it has literally nothing to do with them. Why waste all that time. When we couldve had Wano Oden and more young Orochi. Toki with an actual plot line and the scarbbards....you know the characters that acc relevant now. Fuck Oda all his extra uneeeded set up. And then he has nerve to give us one chapter of execution and deliverance. This man....


All of this just to impress his dumb fans further about his world building. Oooh look Roger and WB visited this place that the SHs did as well. Isnt it coollll:yasu:

Aaahh...really dont care about Wano anymore. Just want cool Sanji feats to wank off too

Post automatically merged: Feb 5, 2020

The flashback filled with unnesscary things that makes it long. But barely enough relevant and important current information or scenes....that make it feel short.

Its basically a gigantic popular disgusting cake with a delicous cherry. But we want more of the cherry....but we will never get it.

 

[Homelander]

He wasted all that time on irrelevant unneeded things. Narratively who tf cares about Roger and WB in Wano...it has literally nothing to do with them. Why waste all that time. When we couldve had Wano Oden and more young Orochi. Toki with an actual plot line and the scarbbards....you know the characters that acc relevant now. Fuck Oda all his extra uneeeded set up. And then he has nerve to give us one chapter of execution and deliverance. This man....


All of this just to impress his dumb fans further about his world building. Oooh look Roger and WB visited this place that the SHs did as well. Isnt it coollll:yasu:

Aaahh...really dont care about Wano anymore. Just want cool Sanji feats to wank off too

Post automatically merged: Feb 5, 2020

The flashback filled with unnesscary things that makes it long. But barely enough relevant and important current information or scenes....that make it feel short.

Its basically a gigantic popular disgusting cake with a delicous cherry. But we want more of the cherry....but we will never get it.

I think flashback was ok not that great as well . I am not fan of flashback of past character it take away story momentum .

Oda made oden deity like figure at the beginning thats where the problem started . Oda likes to hype his character i think that pisses people off maybe i think he has that old shounen fashion style of writing . Its comic in the end people take tad bit too serious when it comes to one piece especially powerlevel squad . Oda gives shit about powerlevel its plot and world building he likes to prefer setting up the story .

 

[wordyworm]

However, I'm starting to question if it's being done on purpose? Like the story set up Oden to be an amazing guy, but the flashback contradicts it. Oden found one piece, but he lost his country. The story made us think he was an admirable ruler, but he really wasn't cut out for it. Oden was also made out to be a naive fool by wasting five years trusting in the promises of untrustworthy people. Afterwards his redemption battle against Kaido was rather brief and not what I was expecting. What kind of payoff is Oda going for here, and why set up such a contrast?

It's kind of a universal OP theme, but in the Wano arc, "The Man vs The Myth" theme is more obvious than usual. There's a lot of examples in Wano of characters who are duplicitous or who are different ppl than their reputation suggests. We have:

• The school kids learning propaganda about Orochi, big Orochi hype and then he turned it to be a goofy looking weasel
• Mountain God incident/young Oden's reputation was hyped into a legend. Lots of ppl talked about him, but very few actually knew him
• The little girl (little Shinobu?) misunderstood Oden's intent when he cooked oden on top of someone's bones
• The Scabbards, Otsuru, Yasuie, etc, hiding their identities
• The Strawhats' undercover identities
• The Scabbards' graves
• Kaido and Big Mom's unexpected partnership, which was set up to look like a fight was coming
• The mystery of the witching hour boy
• "in a 1v1, always bet on Kaido"
• Killer being Kamazo
• Onimaru being Gyukimaru
• Komurasaki being Hiyori
• Drake and SWORD
• Oden, who was built up as a super strong, super brave, dangerously impulsive, guy who doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks of him, agreeing to dance like an idiot for 5 years

I think this theme is building up to Momo (and Hiyori) reclaiming their rightful titles and identities and no longer hiding who they are, i.e., consolidating both the Myth and the Man/Woman

So yeah, even though flashback is longer than I thought it would be, it makes sense bc for Oden, the Man vs Myth gap is such a huge drop when we learn that he backed down to Orochi for 5 years! Oden is getting dragged as hard as Noland, both by readers and by the citizens of Wano. He has a lot in common with Noland as a Man vs Myth character.

 

[Homelander]

After thinking about it for awhile, I realized Oden is the primary problem and the source behind most of my complaints. He is the driving force of this arc and the protagonist of this flashback, but don't find him endearing in the slightest. Every other part was enjoyable from Kinemon's backstory, to Whitebeard's involvement, and Roger's final voyage.

However, I'm starting to question if it's being done on purpose? Like the story set up Oden to be an amazing guy, but the flashback contradicts it. Oden found one piece, but he lost his country. The story made us think he was an admirable ruler, but he really wasn't cut out for it. Oden was also made out to be a naive fool by wasting five years trusting in the promises of untrustworthy people. Afterwards his redemption battle against Kaido was rather brief and not what I was expecting. What kind of payoff is Oda going for here, and why set up such a contrast?

Obviously Oden and Toki will sacrifice themselves at the end to save the scabbards. I expect that much, but perhaps there's something else I'm missing or at least I hope there is. :unsure:

I am happy someone reads story as a literature . It is true Oda likes to humanise his characters even villains as well . Remember doffy he suffered when his parent opt to live in south blue with bunch of slum dwellers you kinda feel pity how obvious his dad was ? He is no less villain when he dragged his entire family and left mariejois basically asking to put themselves in death sentence that really formed what doffy was now in the manga .

If i read literary manner oden was hyped as god turns out he was just a tank guy but very naive in thought . He was partly responsible to let his country rule over by an invader . Oda likes to make his character ambiguous no one is literally a super nice guy .

 

[Zenos7]

He is no less villain when he dragged his entire family and left mariejois basically asking to put themselves in death sentence that really formed what doffy was now in the manga .

doffys father was extremely naive.

And according to rocinante, doffy was like that since pretty much always.

 

[Homelander]

doffys father was extremely naive.

And according to rocinante, doffy was like that since pretty much always.

That is because CD were shit people but imagine Doffy never actually left holy land . There would have been no smile , no trades , dressrossa would have been under riku family . Kaido s force would be lot weaker .

 

[Zenos7]

That is because CD were shit people but imagine Doffy never actually left holy land . There would have been no smile , no trades , dressrossa would have been under riku family . Kaido s force would be lot weaker .

well yeah, instead of being an asshole as a CD, he was being an asshole as a pirate.

I still trust rocinantes judgement that doffy was this same asshole since always though.

 

[Finalbeta]

well yeah, instead of being an asshole as a CD, he was being an asshole as a pirate.

I still trust rocinantes judgement that doffy was this same asshole since always though.

Yeah I liked him at MF but I never imagined him to be such a traitor

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

I put our discussion here because it was offtopic in Sanji vs Zoro thread.

1) The final fights at the end of the arc as a whole are part of the climax. Therefore Usopp, Robin, Chopper ones ecc.

Their are other tons of fights who still get better drawn without beeing in the end of the climax of the arc.
Alone Franky vs Luffy before the climax in enis lobby starts.
And tons of other battles, who meaning for the future of One piece isn´t big as Oden vs Kaido.

2) Which legendary fights other flashback characters had? What fight Noland, Tom, Fisher Tiger and Corazon had?

Which of these characters have such a big impact and role as Oden? Which of these characters get hyped by the own mangaka who say that we shouldn´t even close our eyes because of the legendary hour, which of these characters travel with Gold d Roger and arrive in Raftel and is now a big part of the one of the biggest wars which we gonna ever see in One piece? Which character also get the longest flashback?? Pls don´t let me even start to continue all these points, you can´t compare one of these characters which Oden, only Noland get some shine panels.

3) The Legendary hour was Oden carring the scabbards on his back while immersed in boiling oil and surviving his own execution. Not the battle.

The battle was hyped aswell, the whole event with the execution was hyped up by Oda.

"Now Witness what happend Next"
"A great turmoil caused by a crying Oden"
" Their Eyes set on Kaido"
"Do Not avert your Eyes"

This was one of the major key moments in wano, probably after the war himself one of the major events.
We only don´t see the first encounter of the Scabbards against the beast pirates, also we see Kaido first and only scar on his life which he take from Oden and Enma which meaning a lot for the future. The whole battle was a disaster, we neither see how Oden try to attack Kaido invincible skin or Kaido who perform a good battle with Oden, Oden just casually give Kaido his biggest scar, no exciting panel, no dramatic, just casually and one panel after Oden was lying on the ground defeated... That was so anticlimax for a battle, it was really bad. Character who less have big meaning for the one piece world as Oden get far better battles yet Oden who really deserve that was handle very poor.

Alone the fact that character like Chew,Kuroobi from Arlongs crew and tons other character get better battle draw in any aspect then Oden vs Kaido should tell you how bad Oden vs Kaido was. We still speak about Oden, someone who is next with Luffy and Roger in a cover page, someone who was hyped so much by Oda, which him let even dehype a little Kaido(win via old hag even if that wasn´t his plan).

Nothing against Oda though, he still has his good mangaka skills and I enjoy still Wano though, but Oden vs Kaido was probably one of his most worst battle with he draw so far, in any aspect...

Someone as Oden deserve far better a battle, same goes for Kaido(which he probably get in the war), but that was Oden last chance and Oda throw it away as it was nothing, we probably never see Oden again in a battle.

If you want to compare battles, I can easily show you many low class(character who less have a role as Oden) pirates who get far better battles then Oden(hype,choreography,tension,dramatic,feats,action).

 

[Jew D. Boy]

I put our discussion here because it was offtopic in Sanji vs Zoro thread.


Their are other tons of fights who still get better drawn without beeing in the end of the climax of the arc.
Alone Franky vs Luffy before the climax in enis lobby starts.
And tons of other battles, who meaning for the future of One piece isn´t big as Oden vs Kaido.



Which of these characters have such a big impact and role as Oden? Which of these characters get hyped by the own mangaka who say that we shouldn´t even close our eyes because of the legendary hour, which of these characters travel with Gold d Roger and arrive in Raftel and is now a big part of the one of the biggest wars which we gonna ever see in One piece? Which character also get the longest flashback?? Pls don´t let me even start to continue all these points, you can´t compare one of these characters which Oden, only Noland get some shine panels.



The battle was hyped aswell, the whole event with the execution was hyped up by Oda.

"Now Witness what happend Next"
"A great turmoil caused by a crying Oden"
" Their Eyes set on Kaido"
"Do Not avert your Eyes"

This was one of the major key moments in wano, probably after the war himself one of the major events.
We only don´t see the first encounter of the Scabbards against the beast pirates, also we see Kaido first and only scar on his life which he take from Oden and Enma which meaning a lot for the future. The whole battle was a disaster, we neither see how Oden try to attack Kaido invincible skin or Kaido who perform a good battle with Oden, Oden just casually give Kaido his biggest scar, no exciting panel, no dramatic, just casually and one panel after Oden was lying on the ground defeated... That was so anticlimax for a battle, it was really bad. Character who less have big meaning for the one piece world as Oden get far better battles yet Oden who really deserve that was handle very poor.

Alone the fact that character like Chew,Kuroobi from Arlongs crew and tons other character get better battle draw in any aspect then Oden vs Kaido should tell you how bad Oden vs Kaido was. We still speak about Oden, someone who is next with Luffy and Roger in a cover page, someone who was hyped so much by Oda, which him let even dehype a little Kaido(win via old hag even if that wasn´t his plan).

Nothing against Oda though, he still has his good mangaka skills and I enjoy still Wano though, but Oden vs Kaido was probably one of his most worst battle with he draw so far, in any aspect...

This speaks to a larger point I and many others have made - if Wano is supposed to surpass Marineford in terms of story impact AND depicted battles, why did we get a single, stilted chapter of two of the world’s strongest men clashing?? We see Oden give Kaido the scar, then they’re all defeated?? I know a lot (if not all) of us read this series for free, but that “fight” still wasn’t worth the price of admission. Christ, how many of Whitebeard’s allies who haven’t been seen since the war got more panel time than Oden vs Kaido?!

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

This speaks to a larger point I and many others have made - if Wano is supposed to surpass Marineford in terms of story impact AND depicted battles, why did we get a single, stilted chapter of two of the world’s strongest men clashing?? We see Oden give Kaido the scar, then they’re all defeated?? I know a lot (if not all) of us read this series for free, but that “fight” still wasn’t worth the price of admission. Christ, how many of Whitebeard’s allies who haven’t been seen since the war got more panel time than Oden vs Kaido?!

I mean I can even understand that he skip Roger vs Whitebeard very much, yet even that battle was far better in any aspect(hype,choreography,tension,dramatic,feats,action) then the battle which the protagonist of the flashback get. I mean wtf, even fodder get more single pages of battle then Oden vs Kaido, who was so hyped up.

Neither Roger or Whitebeard are the protagonist of the flashback, it was Oden overall, because that I accept the skip of Oda in the battle with Roger vs Whitebeard, but still the panels are still far better then the battle which we get from Oden vs Kaido.

Alone checking up these facts, you see that the battle was really bad writen by Oda. We speak about a character who had the longest flashback in the whole one piece manga, who lead up a major event and probably the biggest war so far, someone who know the true story of the world because he was in laugh tale...

Let be honest, Oden didn´t deserve such a bad writing battle, as a protagonist he far should get a better battle who wasn´t rushed, overall we gonna see Kaido in the future and his power, but not Oden anymore.. That is really the sad thing which bother me, Oda easily throw away the chance to draw one of the best fights in the one piece manga, the tension was insane and the whole one piece fandom was waiting for the battle after chapter 969, but after 970 you could see and read so many people disappointed face over the chapter with Oden vs Kaido.

It was really one of the most bad Experience which I get so far in One piece, seeing such a huge potential easily throw away was really disappointed.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I feel like Oda needs more panels to work with, I can imagine being limited to 15-19 panels. Sucks balls.

Going by week by week flashbacks tend to feel the most dragging on but reading it in full I feel would be much more fulfilling.

 

[Blackbeard]

It went downhill after chapter 967 for me, i didn't like the shitty conclusion with Oden/Kaido.

 

[Ravagerblade]

It went downhill after chapter 967 for me, i didn't like the shitty conclusion with Oden/Kaido.

I dislike the wanking of Momo being the leader they'll need. But whatever to get him out of the picture.

 

[Kai. Do]

Rushed?

I thought the flashback was too slow.

The flashbacks was pretty stereotypical of common anime tropes, and didn't really surprise me much outside of little things, like the reveal of who was the previous user of the barrier fruit. I also don't have much to say about Oden, i thought his hype was overrated to be honest. The whole Oden/Kinemon/Momonosuke storyline to me just felt like the classical 'retainer avenge master after wrongful punishment to bring justice' storyline, like something out of 47 ronin or whatever. Oden's death didn't really make med shed a tear or make me feel sorry for him either.

Also, having Kinemon and his friends as this arc's 'second' protagonists, didn't really make it more enjoyable for me either. Just how like i didn't like the Vinsmokes during the WCI arc. If it weren't for the fact that having these samurai in the Wano Story arc makes the defeat of Kaido more meaningful and emotional, i would've liked these characters cut out completely, and just have the alliance vs Kaido, pirates vs pirates. Their flashbacks certainly didn't make me change my opinion of them either.