General & Others Do you think the story will get better if Oda doesn't treat Sanji like a hypetool anymore?
- Thread starter Warchief Sanji D Goat
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The story would be better if Sanji never came back to Sabaody and remained in Kamabakka with his okama husbands.
No more hype tool, no more annoying nosebleed gag, no more punching bag, no more kidnapping, no more betrayal that knocked tired Luffy out.
Actually it is nothing to lose without Sanji around.
Monster Trio? There is Jinbe replacing him like how it actually happens in current manga even with Sanji around
Pervert gag? There is Brook
Cooking? Nami can cook just fine
Flying and in air fighting? Gear 4 can cover this.
Underwater fight? Jinbe can easily cover this.
Fire element? Some of Luffy's punches are fire elemental now, Franky can breathe fire. Note that Diable Jambe can't melt Punk Hazard door so Franky had to finish the job.
Someone to protect Nami and Robin? Zoro protected Robin from Hyozo in Fishman Island, while Robin needed to save the damsel from Black Maria. Anyway Sanji was nowhere to be found when Ulti beat Nami to half dead and Lucci one shotted Stussy.
So what can Sanji do while no one else can't do? Literally nothing, except jobbing and being punching bag but as you said, One Piece would be better without it.
No more hype tool, no more annoying nosebleed gag, no more punching bag, no more kidnapping, no more betrayal that knocked tired Luffy out.
Actually it is nothing to lose without Sanji around.
Monster Trio? There is Jinbe replacing him like how it actually happens in current manga even with Sanji around
Pervert gag? There is Brook
Cooking? Nami can cook just fine
Flying and in air fighting? Gear 4 can cover this.
Underwater fight? Jinbe can easily cover this.
Fire element? Some of Luffy's punches are fire elemental now, Franky can breathe fire. Note that Diable Jambe can't melt Punk Hazard door so Franky had to finish the job.
Someone to protect Nami and Robin? Zoro protected Robin from Hyozo in Fishman Island, while Robin needed to save the damsel from Black Maria. Anyway Sanji was nowhere to be found when Ulti beat Nami to half dead and Lucci one shotted Stussy.
So what can Sanji do while no one else can't do? Literally nothing, except jobbing and being punching bag but as you said, One Piece would be better without it.
Oda needs to do a lot more than that to fix OP. It’s not as entertaining as it once was. Beating Sanji doesn’t even make a character look strong anymore, these countdowns a repetitive, there is to much plot convenience, to much inconsistency in power levels, and Oda will do anything to take the story where he wants it to end up regardless of if it makes sense.
The crew reached Yonko level to fast, the gorosei are incompetent for not killing Luffy before he awakened, and there is no way Dorry and Broggy should be relevant in terms of strength currently. Vegapunk is supposed to be a genius but he’s retarted. I can go on and on I’m here for debates and nostalgia at this point.
The crew reached Yonko level to fast, the gorosei are incompetent for not killing Luffy before he awakened, and there is no way Dorry and Broggy should be relevant in terms of strength currently. Vegapunk is supposed to be a genius but he’s retarted. I can go on and on I’m here for debates and nostalgia at this point.
What else do you need?
Or what do you consider deep?
As if the bazillionthst sob story is going to get any reaction anymore.
People are not deep. Characters are not deep.
Complaining about depth or character development is the low hanging fruit of complaints used by anyone who unlearned how to put their own thoughts into words.
Get new material.
One Piece would be better off in general if side characters like Sanji got less focus overall.
Give him the occasional fight, but sideline him most of the story if he is only going to be used for nosebleeds or as a hypetool.
The story progresses slow as is. Giving any random slob screentime is not going to speed it up.
Or what do you consider deep?
As if the bazillionthst sob story is going to get any reaction anymore.
People are not deep. Characters are not deep.
Complaining about depth or character development is the low hanging fruit of complaints used by anyone who unlearned how to put their own thoughts into words.
Get new material.
One Piece would be better off in general if side characters like Sanji got less focus overall.
Give him the occasional fight, but sideline him most of the story if he is only going to be used for nosebleeds or as a hypetool.
The story progresses slow as is. Giving any random slob screentime is not going to speed it up.
Hypetooling is a normal part of Shonen it’s far from the problem. The issue is the inconsistency and plot restrictions Oda puts on characters that leads to it which makes it feel much worse.
Oda nerfing characters then having them hype tool is likely intended to make both characters seem strong when all it does is make it look super inconsistent.
Doffy is a prime example of this.
Doffy used Law and Sanji as hype tools, makes sense Doffy was set up as a massive powerhouse throughout the story and being able to low diff these two was insane.
Oda then proceeded to nerf Doffy to use him as a hype tool for G4 which as a form has literally never beaten anyone in one go.
Doing so made people think Luffy > Doffy >>>> Law. Next thing you know we see G4 Luffy jobbing to Cracker and damn near everyone else it fights. And then suddenly we have people claiming Doffy is tobi roppo level… a level of character that Franky was able to solo.
If Oda just properly established characters power levels before nerfing them literally everything would work out fine. It’s this refusal to show us how strong characters actually are that hurts the story far more than the hype tooling
Oda nerfing characters then having them hype tool is likely intended to make both characters seem strong when all it does is make it look super inconsistent.
Doffy is a prime example of this.
Doffy used Law and Sanji as hype tools, makes sense Doffy was set up as a massive powerhouse throughout the story and being able to low diff these two was insane.
Oda then proceeded to nerf Doffy to use him as a hype tool for G4 which as a form has literally never beaten anyone in one go.
Doing so made people think Luffy > Doffy >>>> Law. Next thing you know we see G4 Luffy jobbing to Cracker and damn near everyone else it fights. And then suddenly we have people claiming Doffy is tobi roppo level… a level of character that Franky was able to solo.
If Oda just properly established characters power levels before nerfing them literally everything would work out fine. It’s this refusal to show us how strong characters actually are that hurts the story far more than the hype tooling
I don't see how the writing suddenly improves if Sanji stops being a hypetool. There are more problems with him than that little inconvenience, and there are even bigger problems with One Piece as a whole. Sanji becoming jobberless isn't going to miraculously change things for the better.
With the few videos I've seen thus far from this YouTuber, I can't say I enjoyed their content as there usually conjecture and outright misinformation in them. For example in that 1st video alone, she says that throughout Zoro's battle with Mihawk, Sanji gets more and more agitated, when in reality Sanji is only seen reacting after Zoro gets sliced by Mihawk using his Yoru in the manga. If she's such a great One Piece analyzer, she should know to not use the anime at all as it is non-canon and even contradicts the manga at times.
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With the few videos I've seen thus far from this YouTuber, I can't say I enjoyed their content as there usually conjecture and outright misinformation in them. For example in that 1st video alone, she says that throughout Zoro's battle with Mihawk, Sanji gets more and more agitated, when in reality Sanji is only seen reacting after Zoro gets sliced by Mihawk using his Yoru in the manga. If she's such a great One Piece analyzer, she should know to not use the anime at all as it is non-canon and even contradicts the manga at times.
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Okay, maybe I should have clarify a bit better.
I'm not saying that if Sanji wouldn't be a hypetool anymore, the story will get better but the good arcs of One Piece usually doesn't have Sanji getting hypetooled. Alabasta for example, was a perfect arc. Sanji didn't get hypetooled and he has a cool Mr. Prince moment.
Sanji got hypetooled by Kalifa in Enies Lobby but his fight with Jabra was cool and him opening the Gate of Justice was dope. So it varies.
Sanji getting hypetooled by main villains like Vergo and Doflamingo is repetitive and boring. Once in a while is fine but Oda keeps abusing the "Worf Effect" for Sanji to hype up the main antagonists almost every arc. There are better ways to hype up opponents without using Sanji like Scabbards vs Kaido for example. They were good hypetools for Kaido and the Scabbards are only side characters.
This is not even a powerscaling aspect, this is a plotline which renders Oda's ability to write. These Sanji hypetool moments could have been easily alternated or avoided but Oda keeps doing it.
Sanji is not a main powerhouse like Luffy and Zoro yes, but he's still one of the main fighters of the Strawhats. It make no sense to just using Sanji constantly as hypetool.
I watched those YT videos and I agree that Sanji's character is good but we're talking Sanji's treatment as a hypetool here. It's clearly bad writing.
Terrible post without substances or have to do anything with the thread. Congrats lol.
Sanji is fine except with the Saturn stare diffed thing which is a PIS stalling for Kuma to arrive which I can get behind, but his performance against Kizaru is the problem. After all that talk with the whole apology letter thing and end up not delivering and Oda makes Sanji run away with VP instead. Meh.
Yes, Luffy got the best moments as he should be since he's the MC. Zoro's combat performance is fine. Just not on Luffy's level.
Other Strawhats got sidelined hard but that's more of Oda's fault.
Bruh, why the harsh critics, Rej?
And I've seen more people on this forum hates WCI more than loved lol.
I couldn't care less about memes. If Sanji memes are the only thing that keeps OP Fandom alive then Lmao.
Don't even let me started on Sanji's perverted acts compared to pre-TS.
I've seen more people shitting on Dressrosa than loving it lol.
And if Sanji didn't exist, the Strawhats would have die in the beginning.
Good job providing nothing to the thread as usual.
Doffy low diffing Sanji was terrible performance for Sanji but then again, he didn't know about Doffy's abilities but still.
There was no reason for Sanji to get hypetooled for Doffy. Law is there for that. Well, Law did get defeated fairly easily by Doffy but Sanji is not tied to Doffy in any way or form.
Okay, I didn't say the story would get better if Sanji wasn't a hypetool, I'm saying that the good arcs usually doesn't have hypetool moments for Sanji like Alabasta and Enies Lobby for example.
Current Post-Timeskip is inferior to Pre-TS and Post-TS happens to have a lot of Sanji hypetool moments.
I'm not saying that if Sanji wouldn't be a hypetool anymore, the story will get better but the good arcs of One Piece usually doesn't have Sanji getting hypetooled. Alabasta for example, was a perfect arc. Sanji didn't get hypetooled and he has a cool Mr. Prince moment.
Sanji got hypetooled by Kalifa in Enies Lobby but his fight with Jabra was cool and him opening the Gate of Justice was dope. So it varies.
Sanji getting hypetooled by main villains like Vergo and Doflamingo is repetitive and boring. Once in a while is fine but Oda keeps abusing the "Worf Effect" for Sanji to hype up the main antagonists almost every arc. There are better ways to hype up opponents without using Sanji like Scabbards vs Kaido for example. They were good hypetools for Kaido and the Scabbards are only side characters.
This is not even a powerscaling aspect, this is a plotline which renders Oda's ability to write. These Sanji hypetool moments could have been easily alternated or avoided but Oda keeps doing it.
Sanji is not a main powerhouse like Luffy and Zoro yes, but he's still one of the main fighters of the Strawhats. It make no sense to just using Sanji constantly as hypetool.
I watched those YT videos and I agree that Sanji's character is good but we're talking Sanji's treatment as a hypetool here. It's clearly bad writing.
Terrible post without substances or have to do anything with the thread. Congrats lol.
Sanji is fine except with the Saturn stare diffed thing which is a PIS stalling for Kuma to arrive which I can get behind, but his performance against Kizaru is the problem. After all that talk with the whole apology letter thing and end up not delivering and Oda makes Sanji run away with VP instead. Meh.
Yes, Luffy got the best moments as he should be since he's the MC. Zoro's combat performance is fine. Just not on Luffy's level.
Other Strawhats got sidelined hard but that's more of Oda's fault.
Bruh, why the harsh critics, Rej?
And I've seen more people on this forum hates WCI more than loved lol.
I couldn't care less about memes. If Sanji memes are the only thing that keeps OP Fandom alive then Lmao.
Don't even let me started on Sanji's perverted acts compared to pre-TS.
I've seen more people shitting on Dressrosa than loving it lol.
And if Sanji didn't exist, the Strawhats would have die in the beginning.
Good job providing nothing to the thread as usual.
Doffy low diffing Sanji was terrible performance for Sanji but then again, he didn't know about Doffy's abilities but still.
There was no reason for Sanji to get hypetooled for Doffy. Law is there for that. Well, Law did get defeated fairly easily by Doffy but Sanji is not tied to Doffy in any way or form.
Okay, I didn't say the story would get better if Sanji wasn't a hypetool, I'm saying that the good arcs usually doesn't have hypetool moments for Sanji like Alabasta and Enies Lobby for example.
Current Post-Timeskip is inferior to Pre-TS and Post-TS happens to have a lot of Sanji hypetool moments.
issa clownparty forum lolololol 
Can you ever argue your own points without linking a video and having someone else do it for you? No one wants to go watch a 30minute-hour video by someone they might not even like (I vehemently hate that person.) And it also shows you don't know anything you're talking about if you can't debate on your own.
Anyway.
To answer the question: He's not hypetooled because in most of the instances the goal for Sanji wasn't to fight or win. It was to save someone or something and he accomplished that.
Fishman Island - How was he a hypetool? His gag drove the plot, but he wasn't beat by someone to trump up their strength.
Punk Hazard Vergo -> Saved Tashigi and more.
Dressrosa Doffy -> Saved Nami, and rest of crew. Even your Golden Boy Zoro would lose here, as Law told no one what Doffy's powers were.
WCI -> Saved Pudding
Judge and Niji do not count as they cheated to win. It wasn't a fight, it was underhanded tactics done to show how bad of people they were, also they literally had to threaten Sanji's loved ones and handicap him to win, that's not a 'hypetool.'
Wano -> Allowed the crew to learn how they were being spied on by the Mary's letting Usopp take out the offense. Look at the fact Sanji doesn't give in and yell for Robin until he's found the source of their network.
Egghead Thus Far -> Saved Nami, Bonney, and Kuma several times now.
Oda has used Sanji for plot, but it's never been in a negative moment for him. It either also develops his own story line, saves someone he set out to save, and makes him even more of a key player.
This shows Oda favors Sanji as he uses Sanji to drive the plot forward as much as Luffy (aka effectively making him a deuteragonist as much as you all deny it.)
Let's look at your golden boy on the flipside Zoro. The King fight had no reason to happen aside from "Zoro fights strong guy, Zoro wins and advances." There was no plot no narrative, no connection between Zoro and King aside from being in the way to advance.
Anyway.
To answer the question: He's not hypetooled because in most of the instances the goal for Sanji wasn't to fight or win. It was to save someone or something and he accomplished that.
Fishman Island - How was he a hypetool? His gag drove the plot, but he wasn't beat by someone to trump up their strength.
Punk Hazard Vergo -> Saved Tashigi and more.
Dressrosa Doffy -> Saved Nami, and rest of crew. Even your Golden Boy Zoro would lose here, as Law told no one what Doffy's powers were.
WCI -> Saved Pudding
Judge and Niji do not count as they cheated to win. It wasn't a fight, it was underhanded tactics done to show how bad of people they were, also they literally had to threaten Sanji's loved ones and handicap him to win, that's not a 'hypetool.'
Wano -> Allowed the crew to learn how they were being spied on by the Mary's letting Usopp take out the offense. Look at the fact Sanji doesn't give in and yell for Robin until he's found the source of their network.
Egghead Thus Far -> Saved Nami, Bonney, and Kuma several times now.
Oda has used Sanji for plot, but it's never been in a negative moment for him. It either also develops his own story line, saves someone he set out to save, and makes him even more of a key player.
This shows Oda favors Sanji as he uses Sanji to drive the plot forward as much as Luffy (aka effectively making him a deuteragonist as much as you all deny it.)
Let's look at your golden boy on the flipside Zoro. The King fight had no reason to happen aside from "Zoro fights strong guy, Zoro wins and advances." There was no plot no narrative, no connection between Zoro and King aside from being in the way to advance.
There is no such thing as "hypetool" (unless if we talk about very bad and/or hollywoodian stories). Its a concept invented by those who try to analyse a story without understanding how it work based only on their illegitimate expectations. So no, its not bad writing.
I can but I don't have the time to make the argumentation. This person made an amazing analysis and its perfectly legitimate and good in that context.
(Also what kind of person "vehemently hate" that kind of person ? Like wow chill)
There is no need to create argumentation for something that has already been explained by someone. If you don't care to watch the video, move on and don't talk to me about storytelling because you will learn very fast that if you have a bad opinion on the subject, I'm the last personn you want to argue on that specific field of expertise on this forum
So to come back to the discussion:
Sanji is not an hypetool, such thing does not exist and Sanji's writing has been amazing post time skip (on the exception of his pervyness of course).
End of discussion.
I can but I don't have the time to make the argumentation. This person made an amazing analysis and its perfectly legitimate and good in that context.
(Also what kind of person "vehemently hate" that kind of person ? Like wow chill)
There is no need to create argumentation for something that has already been explained by someone. If you don't care to watch the video, move on and don't talk to me about storytelling because you will learn very fast that if you have a bad opinion on the subject, I'm the last personn you want to argue on that specific field of expertise on this forum
So to come back to the discussion:
Sanji is not an hypetool, such thing does not exist and Sanji's writing has been amazing post time skip (on the exception of his pervyness of course).
End of discussion.
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The fact she constantly posts (like daily) her wish that Sanji would be a Lesbian Woman that fucks Nami and Zoro together, to the point of begging Oda for it. Like headcanons may be one thing (debatable). But when you're literally begging the author to change the character for you over the character you have, you're not a fan of the character anymore. You're a fan of a bastardized OC with the same name and changes you want. So yes, I can hate her as someone that defends Sanji's integrity daily on Twitter.
Sounds like something @Logiko would support
I saw someone on Twitter who said they only read one piece through Twitter fanfic gay ships
Tbh headcanons are poisonous. People don't think they're headcanons. If they were just HC you wouldn't be pissed at the author for not making it happen. They call it headcanon when in disguise it's actually more than that.
Headcanons are very dangerous and I'm against it tbh
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I saw someone on Twitter who said they only read one piece through Twitter fanfic gay ships
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Tbh headcanons are poisonous. People don't think they're headcanons. If they were just HC you wouldn't be pissed at the author for not making it happen. They call it headcanon when in disguise it's actually more than that.
Headcanons are very dangerous and I'm against it tbh