Character Discussion Does Zoro's progress make sense?

[HopOnTheHype]

Lmfao FUCKING READ WHAT IT SAYS
He didnt know kinemon and co were up there HE EVEN ASKED IF KAIDO WAS UP TOP.
keep your bullshit to yourself idgaf im showing you what the manga says

Stop getting triggered just because zoro wants to play support to kinemon's majestic swordsmanship.

Sorry that zoro isn't the strongest character in anime history, you'll have to just accept that and try to move on with your life.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2020

did anyone actually suggest zoro would solo kaido?

You didn't, but others are, lol.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2020

Luffy knew zoro didn t
Zoro even asked if kaido is up top bruh
Why he asking if he knows already?

Zoro knows the scabbards are with kaidou, he didn't know where kaidou was. Like, the literal reason why kaidou moved and the literal plan was for the scabbards attacking him.

 

[Zenos7]

You didn't, but others are, lol.

that must be a minority among zoro fans then.

 

[Zowo]

Stop getting triggered just because zoro wants to play support to kinemon's majestic swordsmanship.

Sorry that zoro isn't the strongest character in anime history, you'll have to just accept that and try to move on with your life.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2020

You didn't, but others are, lol.

This is moe 2.0
@Zenos7 @HA001

 

[HA001]

Stop getting triggered just because zoro wants to play support to kinemon's majestic swordsmanship.

Sorry that zoro isn't the strongest character in anime history, you'll have to just accept that and try to move on with your life.

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2020

You didn't, but others are, lol.

Im sorry you cant read. Illiteracy this bad is how you come to stupid conclusions lile yamato being a man.

 

[HopOnTheHype]

Im sorry you cant read. Illiteracy this bad is how you come to stupid conclusions lile yamato being a man.

Look at the child try to insult his betters, it's so cute, he's trying so hard.

If you're going to call someone illiterate, it should have a basis on why it's true, like if someone literally fails to read something. Not "you disagree with my mihawk/zoro wanking, therefore you're illiterate", you just sound like a whiny child if you do that.

 

[HA001]

Look at the child try to insult his betters, it's so cute, he's trying so hard.

If you're going to call someone illiterate, it should have a basis on why it's true, like if someone literally fails to read something. Not "you disagree with my mihawk/zoro wanking, therefore you're illiterate", you just sound like a whiny child if you do that.

I call you illiterate BECAUSE YOU CANT READ.
The panels i have shown you CLEARLY SHOW zoro DID NOT know kinemon and co were up on the roof when he was going for kaido. HE EVEN ASKED IF KAIDO WAS UP TOP.
There is no wanking here, you just cant read.

 

[Zenos7]

Look at the child try to insult his betters, it's so cute, he's trying so hard.

If you're going to call someone illiterate, it should have a basis on why it's true, like if someone literally fails to read something. Not "you disagree with my mihawk/zoro wanking, therefore you're illiterate", you just sound like a whiny child if you do that.

you are suggesting zoro is only there to be support of kinnemon, who was completely awestruck seeing zoro bisect picas golem and who didnt even dare to try wield enma.

this is basically asking for people to call you illiterate

 

[sanjikun]

I don't think Monet matters... That's like saying Luffy is going from Holdem to Kaido.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Yes, and I'm saying that during whole cake island, he was retired, and he mighty have returned after katakuri and cracker were embarassed and probably lost their top commander positions like snack did.

Perospero had multiple intro boxes in whole cake, none of them stated he was a big mom pirate, despite other crew members being mentioned as being big mom pirate members (like smoothie), in their intro boxes.

Almost no Charlotte Family got a "Big Mom Pirates" in their intro box aside from the Sweet Generals, and irregardless of the fact, they are still called Big Mom Pirates.

I suggest you reread this post, specifically the first spoiler. Those were from WCI.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/from-monet-to-pica-to-kaidou.8885/post-877711

While we're at it, read this.

Spoiler

Ministers have nothing to do with the crew, though there is an overlap. Ministers are mayors of their own individual islands. Katakuri is a minister of an island even, minister isn't a rank like headliner or something.

Big Mom likes her kids, she rewards her top kids who are loyal to her with leadership positions. Like yeah, of course there is a lot of overlap between her kids, the crew, and who she puts in charge of islands, she is biased towards her kids, her kids are powerful (and a lot are smarter than her), and her crew almost entirely (at least leadership positions) made up of her children.

Again, WCI Arc has treated them as Big Mom's special force THRICE!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

In regards to Jimbei's iceberg comment, the fearsome figures are obviously the remaining Sweet Generals and the four veterans as Vito would introduce them at the start of the Tea Party. And they are also Ministers including Cracker and Snack.

Spoiler

 

[HopOnTheHype]

Almost no Charlotte Family got a "Big Mom Pirates" in their intro box aside from the Sweet Generals, and irregardless of the fact, they are still called Big Mom Pirates.

I suggest you reread this post, specifically the first spoiler. Those were from WCI.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/from-monet-to-pica-to-kaidou.8885/post-877711

While we're at it, read this.

Spoiler

Again, WCI Arc has treated them as Big Mom's special force THRICE!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

In regards to Jimbei's iceberg comment, the fearsome figures are obviously the remaining Sweet Generals and the four veterans as Vito would introduce them at the start of the Tea Party. And they are also Ministers including Cracker and Snack.

Spoiler

So 1000 big mom pirates are around capone, capone says we're surrounded by big mom pirates, and that's evidence that perospero is?

Also the capone talking over the powerhouses of the crew literally has nothing to do with your argument.

Like yeah, perospero is an underling of big mom, no one is denying this, but he's not an official crew member, or at least he wasn't during the arc, the point is that he's loyal, but retired from the crew proper, and still does stuff for her, including fighting.


Anyway a lot of characters had big mom pirates in their intro boxes:

Spoiler

I would get more, but it's actually hard to find intro boxes on google, holy hell.

Anyway we're talking full intro boxes, not the ones that just say their name. Perospero has had full ones that didn't have any mention of the big mom pirates.

 

[LadyVados]

Im sorry you cant read. Illiteracy this bad is how you come to stupid conclusions lile yamato being a man.

That’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

So 1000 big mom pirates are around capone, capone says we're surrounded by big mom pirates, and that's evidence that perospero is?

Yes, because it means the Charlotte Family members are Big Mom Pirates. They are referring to them.

Also the capone talking over the powerhouses of the crew literally has nothing to do with your argument.

It has everything to do with my point about the Ministers being a force within the Big Mom Pirates.

Like yeah, perospero is an underling of big mom, no one is denying this, but he's not an official crew member, or at least he wasn't during the arc, the point is that he's loyal, but retired from the crew proper, and still does stuff for her, including fighting.


Anyway a lot of characters had big mom pirates in their intro boxes:

Spoiler

I would get more, but it's actually hard to find intro boxes on google, holy hell.

Anyway we're talking full intro boxes, not the ones that just say their name. Perospero has had full ones that didn't have any mention of the big mom pirates.

I mention Oda not putting "Big Mom Pirates" in title boxes for the Charlotte Family aside from the Sweet Generals, and your counter is Tamago who is NOT a Charlotte Family.

And those three title boxes still doesn't dispute that the manga referred to the Charlotte Family, Perospero included, as the Big Mom Pirates. Based on what's given to us, the Big Mom Pirates' hierarchy is likely,

Sweet Generals (also Ministers) > Veterans Minister > Normal Ministers > Normal Charlottes

Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbin, etc. are Big Mom's equivalent of subordinate captains or Straw Hat Grand Fleet.

You need to reread the first spoiler in this post before bringing up Perospero's title cards. It's shown right there Oda doesn't distinguish the Charlotte Family from the Big Mom Pirates.

 

[HopOnTheHype]

you are suggesting zoro is only there to be support of kinnemon, who was completely awestruck seeing zoro bisect picas golem and who didnt even dare to try wield enma.

this is basically asking for people to call you illiterate

I mean kinemon being impressed by zoro doesn't admit inferiority, nor would it really matter, I'm sure you consider denjiro to be stronger than kinemon cuz denjiro kind of repelled zoro pretty easily, and denjiro is still kinemon's underling.

Also zoro was only able to cut pica due to air cuts, which kinemon doesn't have, it's a technique that mihawk taught him, not a power thing. It certainly helps a lot, but ultimately it's usages are "cutting big things". Zoro doesn't use big air cuts against other opponents who are his size and power level.

Also like, do you even know what illiterate means? Like, illiterate doesn't mean "stupid", it doesn't mean "wrong", it means you don't know how to properly write/speak in a language on a basic level. You not knowing what illiterate means, is the only illiterate thing in this thread.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

That’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

It's literally just a man-child throwing around the biggest word he knows (without knowing it's meaning, which is ironically the only illiterate thing here), just to ad hominem attack others instead of debating their points.

 

[Zenos7]

I mean kinemon being impressed by zoro doesn't admit inferiority, nor would it really matter, I'm sure you consider denjiro to be stronger than kinemon cuz denjiro kind of repelled zoro pretty easily, and denjiro is still kinemon's underling.

it wouldnt matter that zoro would give support to a character inferior to him while battling the supposed strongest in the world. . . .

no idea what your point is with the denjiro shit.

Also zoro was only able to cut pica due to air cuts, which kinemon doesn't have, it's a technique that mihawk taught him, not a power thing. It certainly helps a lot, but ultimately it's usages are "cutting big things". Zoro doesn't use big air cuts against other opponents who are his size and power level.

Spoiler

the only thing we know about that zoro learned from mihawk is haki. and the initial cut of the golem was not an air slash either, it was ISDS, an improved version of sanzen sekai, which also is not an air slash.

Spoiler

Also like, do you even know what illiterate means? Like, illiterate doesn't mean "stupid", it doesn't mean "wrong", it means you don't know how to properly write/speak in a language on a basic level. You not knowing what illiterate means, is the only illiterate thing in this thread.

with my previous post i wasnt calling you stupid or your takes wrong though. i mean, both still applies though. You have to have seriously low reading comprehension to reach the conclusion of zoro only wanting to be support for kinnemon.

 

[HopOnTheHype]

Yes, because it means the Charlotte Family members are Big Mom Pirates. They are referring to them.



It has everything to do with my point about the Ministers being a force within the Big Mom Pirates.



I mention Oda not putting "Big Mom Pirates" in title boxes for the Charlotte Family aside from the Sweet Generals, and your counter is Tamago who is NOT a Charlotte Family.

And those three title boxes still doesn't dispute that the manga referred to the Charlotte Family, Perospero included, as the Big Mom Pirates. Based on what's given to us, the Big Mom Pirates' hierarchy is likely,

Sweet Generals (also Ministers) > Veterans Minister > Normal Ministers > Normal Charlottes

Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbin, etc. are Big Mom's equivalent of subordinate captains or Straw Hat Grand Fleet.

You need to reread the first spoiler in this post before bringing up Perospero's title cards. It's shown right there Oda doesn't distinguish the Charlotte Family from the Big Mom Pirates.

If Luffy and Zoro are standing in a group of 20,000 samurai and king goes "the samurai are here!", it doesn't mean luffy is a samurai.

The ministers aren't a force within the big mom pirates, minister literally means they are the mayor of an island, it's not a crew position, it's a political position within the territory. It just so happens that a lot of them are crew members because big mom trusts them.

Honestly your argument doesn't make sense. Why does perospero not being listed off a big mom pirate not matter cuz he's a charlotte family member, when other charlotte family members have it in their intro box that they're members, and also a non charlotte family member. You have no evidence that that's the reason why perospero's intro boxes (plural) didn't have him as a crew member.

Streusen and Perospero have better feats than Smoothie and Snack. Perospero has a higher bounty than Snack.

Big Moms crew doesn't have a clearly hierarchy. Perospero was ordering around sweet commanders, people like daifuku don't have any title greater than normal ministers, etc. it's really just a case by case situation, the family dynamic probably helps enough where people aren't questioning who they should listen to. Obviously there are commanders like the people in the meeting and so forth, and they rule over the chess pieces and homies and stuff, but there isn't a clear calamity > tobi roppo > headliner > numbers > gifters > pleasures > waiters > fodder style situation going on. In big moms crew, a tobi roppo and a gifter have the same rank, but there might be a vague power dynamic between them that people are aware of within the crew, and it ebbs and flows depending on recent events. Snack despite being more powerful than him, was forced into a subordinate role in the battle under Oven.

Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbins, and Capone werne't subordinate captains, they were full members of the crew. Jinbei was a subordinate captain.

I wasn't talking about THOSE boxes, I'm talking about the in verse ones that show up when a character shows up for the first time, or is gone for a bit and comes back. Those kind of intro boxexs.

 

[Zenos7]

It's literally just a man-child throwing around the biggest word he knows (without knowing it's meaning, which is ironically the only illiterate thing here), just to ad hominem attack others instead of debating their points.

he did argue your points before, so this wasnt really ad hominem.

 

[HopOnTheHype]

I call you illiterate BECAUSE YOU CANT READ.
The panels i have shown you CLEARLY SHOW zoro DID NOT know kinemon and co were up on the roof when he was going for kaido. HE EVEN ASKED IF KAIDO WAS UP TOP.
There is no wanking here, you just cant read.

"I called you illiterate cuz you didn't agree with me"

I barely read your panel shit, but zoro was aware that the scabbards were fighting kaidou, you not reading me saying that in response to your argument, is illiterate, by the same metric you think illiterate is. (not properly reading something you didn't put much attention into).

i already disproved your stupid point.

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

it wouldnt matter that zoro would give support to a character inferior to him while battling the supposed strongest in the world. . . .

no idea what your point is with the denjiro shit.

Spoiler

the only thing we know about that zoro learned from mihawk is haki. and the initial cut of the golem was not an air slash either, it was ISDS, an improved version of sanzen sekai, which also is not an air slash.

Spoiler

with my previous post i wasnt calling you stupid or your takes wrong though. i mean, both still applies though. You have to have seriously low reading comprehension to reach the conclusion of zoro only wanting to be support for kinnemon.

Yeah, zoro learned new techniques to do high leveled air cuts.

Also god damn you're a little bitch, taking your passive aggressive pot shots.

Sorry that your favorite stick swinging boring nothing character is kinemon's little slave. Sucks that your favorite character is subordinate to everyone and their mother.

 

[Zenos7]

Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbins, and Capone werne't subordinate captains, they were full members of the crew. Jinbei was a subordinate captain.

what kinda manga are you reading? jinbes crew was tied to big moms pirate crew the same way the firetank pirates were, only difference that jinbe wasnt the one marrying a charlotte daughter.

jinbe and capone were subordinate captains

Spoiler

'Firetank pirates base'

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

Yeah, zoro learned new techniques to do high leveled air cuts.

absolutely unsubstantiated and baseless. zoro learned haki, we dont know whether he learned anything else besides getting stronger physically (as of yet). If you want to talk about theories or fanfictions, i dont care about them.

Also god damn you're a little bitch, taking your passive aggressive pot shots.

Sorry that your favorite stick swinging boring nothing character is kinemon's little slave. Sucks that your favorite character is subordinate to everyone and their mother.

yeah no

Post automatically merged: Dec 9, 2020

I barely read your panel shit, but zoro was aware that the scabbards were fighting kaidou, you not reading me saying that in response to your argument, is illiterate, by the same metric you think illiterate is. (not properly reading something you didn't put much attention into).

i already disproved your stupid point.

zoro in that panel that @HA001 showed you asked luffy where he is going. Luffy responds "kaido", and zoro wants to come with him. No mention of the scabbards whatsoever. Zoro wasnt present when the scabbards attacked kaido in the hall, he was off fighting beast pirate fodder. So he didnt necessarily know they are already fighting kaido at this point.

Spoiler

But thanks for admitting this:

I barely read your panel shit

It explains alot.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

A mod or admin may make us continue this elsewhere, but not even Erkan is THIS devoted to flat Earth.

If Luffy and Zoro are standing in a group of 20,000 samurai and king goes "the samurai are here!", it doesn't mean luffy is a samurai.

Not a valid comparison because King is referring to the samurai, not Luffy and Zoro. In that manga panel, they are addressing the Charlotte children.

The ministers aren't a force within the big mom pirates, minister literally means they are the mayor of an island, it's not a crew position, it's a political position within the territory. It just so happens that a lot of them are crew members because big mom trusts them.

They were regarded like a special force THRICE in WCI Arc.

Calls for Ministers for backup:

Spoiler

Jimbei regards to them as her forces (and specializes the 4 veterans and Sweet Generals):

Spoiler

Civilians refer to the Ministers for the transparency that took place instead of the simple Charlottes.

Spoiler

Honestly your argument doesn't make sense. Why does perospero not being listed off a big mom pirate not matter cuz he's a charlotte family member, when other charlotte family members have it in their intro box that they're members, and also a non charlotte family member. You have no evidence that that's the reason why perospero's intro boxes (plural) didn't have him as a crew member.

Did you even read these?

Spoiler

Streusen and Perospero have better feats than Smoothie and Snack. Perospero has a higher bounty than Snack.

None of this means Streusen and Perospero are stronger than Smoothie and Snack considering we saw very little from them, especially Snack. Considering Streusen isn't a Charlotte, he'd have a special position.

Big Moms crew doesn't have a clearly hierarchy. Perospero was ordering around sweet commanders, people like daifuku don't have any title greater than normal ministers, etc. it's really just a case by case situation, the family dynamic probably helps enough where people aren't questioning who they should listen to. Obviously there are commanders like the people in the meeting and so forth, and they rule over the chess pieces and homies and stuff, but there isn't a clear calamity > tobi roppo > headliner > numbers > gifters > pleasures > waiters > fodder style situation going on. In big moms crew, a tobi roppo and a gifter have the same rank, but there might be a vague power dynamic between them that people are aware of within the crew, and it ebbs and flows depending on recent events. Snack despite being more powerful than him, was forced into a subordinate role in the battle under Oven.

So what you're telling me is Big Mom's crew is disorganized as fuck even though they have positions (Sweet Generals, Fighters, Chess Peacekeepers, etc.)?

Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbins, and Capone werne't subordinate captains, they were full members of the crew. Jinbei was a subordinate captain.

Jimbei's initiation to the crew is exactly the same as Bege's, who is the same rank as Tamago, Pekoms, and Bobbin. And yes, those three joined with a crew and by having either themselves or a lackey marry a Charlotte.

I wasn't talking about THOSE boxes, I'm talking about the in verse ones that show up when a character shows up for the first time, or is gone for a bit and comes back. Those kind of intro boxexs.

I WAS talking about those boxes and the fact Oda doesn't refer to the Charlottes outside of the Sweet Generals as Big Mom Pirates yet they're still CALLED Big Mom Pirates irregardless.

 

[LadyVados]

@HopOnTheHype I hate to be that guy but... Kinemon is probbbbaly dead...