Questions & Mysteries Enma Is Not Taking On Kaido

[Enma]

Kyoshiro could be the ally hence the slash Orochii.
And Kyoshiro already proved himself to be worthy foe when he no sell Zoro attacks n even mocked him with that Grin.

Yup, Orochiu himself is fodder. Bt like i said his df is the mythical zoan. That itself is strong.

You remember Luffy vs Katakuri? How difficult that fight was, it continued for 10 hours and what condition Luffy was in after that fight.
And you are expecting Zoro to come out of King fight and slash Kaidou, like he came out of Mr1 fight?
We both know this is going to be hardest fight for Zoro ever been, with Zoro putting everything in to beat King and still might need PUs or help to achieve victory.

Maybe Not.
Bt then again, do every expectations are met as exactly we want Oda to? No.

I rather think only reason Orochii has mythical zoan is for the same, his Zoan form will recieve hype and Zoro will slash it to complete two or more pieces like he did with Pica. If he draws it epic, Zoro could be recognised as second Ryumma, its dpnd on how Oda sells it.

And Kyoshiro already proved himself to be worthy foe when he no sell Zoro attacks n even mocked him with that Grin.

It doesn't tell me anything. Mocking injured, nitoriyu Zoro, who was trying to kill Orochi and not Kyoshiro isn't a much of feat. He can be serious foe and still be a high-diff fight.

Yup, Orochiu himself is fodder. Bt like i said his df is the mythical zoan. That itself is strong.

Having a strong fruit /=/ not being a fodder. Only advantage I can think of, his 8 heads.

You remember Luffy vs Katakuri? How difficult that fight was, it continued for 10 hours and what condition Luffy was in after that fight.
And you are expecting Zoro to come out of King fight and slash Kaidou, like he came out of Mr1 fight?
We both know this is going to be hardest fight for Zoro ever been, with Zoro putting everything in to beat King and still might need PUs or help to achieve victory.

Mr.1 was his hardest fight at that moment, Kaku was his hardest fight at another moment. Yet, he was okay. I have no grounds to believe that his fight with King will be different. Plus they are swordsmen, not brawlers, their fights ends fast.

Maybe Not.
Bt then again, do every expectations are met as exactly we want Oda to? No.

Most of the expectations like Sanji vs Katakuri and Luffy beating Big Mom are made by fans. Oda himself making those expectations about cutting Kaido by hyping Enma and having Zoro and Oden/Ryuma parallels.

I rather think only reason Orochi has mythical zoan is for the same, his Zoan form will recieve hype and Zoro will slash it to complete two or more pieces like he did with Pica. If he draws it epic, Zoro could be recognised as second Ryumma, its dpnd on how Oda sells it

How? By slashing fodder snake? Ryuma cut Dragon, not snake (though in mythology Yamato-no-Orochi is dragon, it seems to not be the case in One Piece). It would be a cool panel, indeed, but nothing more.

And I will ask you the same question like Ndule. Why not give Zoro Ame-no-Habakiri that exactly means "Snake Slayer" and was used by Susano'o to kill Yamato-no-Orochi?

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

And Kyoshiro already proved himself to be worthy foe when he no sell Zoro attacks n even mocked him with that Grin.

It doesn't tell me anything. Mocking injured, nitoriyu Zoro, who was trying to kill Orochi and not Kyoshiro isn't a much of feat. He can be serious foe and still be a high-diff fight.

Yup, Orochiu himself is fodder. Bt like i said his df is the mythical zoan. That itself is strong.

Having a strong fruit /=/ not being a fodder. Only advantage I can think of, his 8 heads.

You remember Luffy vs Katakuri? How difficult that fight was, it continued for 10 hours and what condition Luffy was in after that fight.
And you are expecting Zoro to come out of King fight and slash Kaidou, like he came out of Mr1 fight?
We both know this is going to be hardest fight for Zoro ever been, with Zoro putting everything in to beat King and still might need PUs or help to achieve victory.

Mr.1 was his hardest fight at that moment, Kaku was his hardest fight at another moment. Yet, he was okay. I have no grounds to believe that his fight with King will be different. Plus they are swordsmen, not brawlers, their fights ends fast.

Maybe Not.
Bt then again, do every expectations are met as exactly we want Oda to? No.

Most of the expectations like Sanji vs Katakuri and Luffy beating Big Mom are made by fans. Oda himself making those expectations about cutting Kaido by hyping Enma and having Zoro and Oden/Ryuma parallels.

I rather think only reason Orochi has mythical zoan is for the same, his Zoan form will recieve hype and Zoro will slash it to complete two or more pieces like he did with Pica. If he draws it epic, Zoro could be recognised as second Ryumma, its dpnd on how Oda sells it

How? By slashing fodder snake? Ryuma cut Dragon, not snake (though in mythology Yamato-no-Orochi is dragon, it seems to not be the case in One Piece). It would be a cool panel, indeed, but nothing more.

And I will ask you the same question like Ndule. Why not give Zoro Ame-no-Habakiri that exactly means "Snake Slayer" and was used by Susano'o to kill Yamato-no-Orochi?

He can be and not be, bt presently Kyoshiro is good foe for Zoro. If Zoro was not at his best, Kyoshiro also wasn't going all out on him.
Plus who says it has to be two extreme diff fights?

I admitted Orochii being a fodder, so i dont get ur point. Bt his mythical Zoan is strong that's what Zoro has to fight.

Swordman fights are also lethal. Kamazou made Zoro faint, so you can believe what u want to. King is going to be hardest foe for Zoro to overcome.

Everyone thinks their expectations are different and true.
If we are being realistic Zoro ain't even strong enough to be Second Oden yet much less second Ryumma. Oden came close to defeating a Top tier, Zoro is hardly top high Tier yet.
Only ray of hope i have for you here is Oda don't care about PLs as much as we do.

Yes. Zoro showed his interests in cutting Orochi and that's what his Plot is tied to.

Could be no of reasons, to not make the story predictable or might not even be related to immediate plot in Onepiece story.

 

[Zowo]

He can be and not be, bt presently Kyoshiro is good foe for Zoro. If Zoro was not at his best, Kyoshiro also wasn't going all out on him.
Plus who says it has to be two extreme diff fights?

I admitted Orochii being a fodder, so i dont get ur point. Bt his mythical Zoan is strong that's what Zoro has to fight.

Swordman fights are also lethal. Kamazou made Zoro faint, so you can believe what u want to. King is going to be hardest foe for Zoro to overcome.

Everyone thinks their expectations are different and true.
If we are being realistic Zoro ain't even strong enough to be Second Oden yet much less second Ryumma. Oden came close to defeating a Top tier, Zoro is hardly top high Tier yet.
Only ray of hope i have for you here is Oda don't care about PLs as much as we do.

Yes. Zoro showed his interests in cutting Orochi and that's what his Plot is tied to.

Could be no of reasons, to not make the story predictable or might not even be related to immediate plot in Onepiece story.

hIs zOaN iS sTrOnG
Doesn t matter dude is fodder lmao

 

[Finalbeta]

hIs zOaN iS sTrOnG
Doesn t matter dude is fodder lmao

Yep people are making Orochi the new Blackbeard lmao.

He got a powerful devil fruit but he is still a mid level high tier at the very best.

I actually hope Zoro won't dirt his own hands with him but immediately go for King.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

I get where y’all coming from with Oda potentially establishing some sort of Zoro/Ryuma parallel this arc (I also think it’s likely) but will Zoro cutting Kaidou really do that tho? 😓 I mean does Oden cutting Kaidou parallel him to Ryuma as well?

Oda already had Zoro kill a dragon in PH, so I think that parallel has already been established. Moreover, if it’s a question of Zoro killing a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators from Wano, I don’t really think that’s necessary as Ryuma didn’t kill a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators either. He only did it in front of the chick (flare was it?) which is prolly how the Wano folk got to know about it. In the same vein Kinemon & Momo (prolly)are already aware that Zoro killed a dragon so the citizens of Wano could get to know about it through them.

Rather than cutting Kaidou, I personally think Oda having Zoro create a black blade would be a lot more symbolic & a better less repetitive parallel to Ryuma.

Not to mention Zoro killing
Kaidou is not only anticlimactic but it’s not very likely in OP imo.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

I get where y’all coming from with Oda potentially establishing some sort of Zoro/Ryuma parallel this arc (I also think it’s likely) but will Zoro cutting Kaidou really do that tho? 😓 I mean does Oden cutting Kaidou parallel him to Ryuma as well?

Oda already had Zoro kill a dragon in PH, so I think that parallel has already been established. Moreover, if it’s a question of Zoro killing a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators from Wano, I don’t really think that’s necessary as Ryuma didn’t kill a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators either. He only did it in front of the chick (flare was it?) which is prolly how the Wano folk got to know about it. In the same vein Kinemon & Momo (prolly)are already aware that Zoro cut a dragon so the citizens of Wano could get to know about it through them.

Rather than cutting Kaidou, I personally think Oda having Zoro create a black blade would be a lot more symbolic & a better less repetitive parallel to Ryuma.

Not to mention Zoro killing
Kaidou is not only anticlimactic but it’s not very likely in OP imo.

They are expecting some wild dream

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I get where y’all coming from with Oda potentially establishing some sort of Zoro/Ryuma parallel this arc (I also think it’s likely) but will Zoro cutting Kaidou really do that tho? 😓 I mean does Oden cutting Kaidou parallel him to Ryuma as well?

Oda already had Zoro kill a dragon in PH, so I think that parallel has already been established. Moreover, if it’s a question of Zoro killing a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators from Wano, I don’t really think that’s necessary as Ryuma didn’t kill a dragon in front of a bunch of spectators either. He only did it in front of the chick (flare was it?) which is prolly how the Wano folk got to know about it. In the same vein Kinemon & Momo (prolly)are already aware that Zoro cut a dragon so the citizens of Wano could get to know about it through them.

Rather than cutting Kaidou, I personally think Oda having Zoro create a black blade would be a lot more symbolic & a better less repetitive parallel to Ryuma.

Not to mention Zoro killing
Kaidou is not only anticlimactic but it’s not very likely in OP imo.

Good point Oden hurting Kaidou didn't make him second Ryumma.
And Zoro killing Kaidou?

 

[nik87]

I mean does Oden cutting Kaidou parallel him to Ryuma as well?

Yes, it is a parallel to Ryuma. How many people get to cut dragons lol?

He only did it in front of the chick (flare was it?)

That wasnt in Wano and it was an eastern dragon, in Monsters it was a western one.

 

[Enma]

He can be and not be, bt presently Kyoshiro is good foe for Zoro. If Zoro was not at his best, Kyoshiro also wasn't going all out on him.
Plus who says it has to be two extreme diff fights?

I admitted Orochii being a fodder, so i dont get ur point. Bt his mythical Zoan is strong that's what Zoro has to fight.

Swordman fights are also lethal. Kamazou made Zoro faint, so you can believe what u want to. King is going to be hardest foe for Zoro to overcome.

Everyone thinks their expectations are different and true.
If we are being realistic Zoro ain't even strong enough to be Second Oden yet much less second Ryumma. Oden came close to defeating a Top tier, Zoro is hardly top high Tier yet.
Only ray of hope i have for you here is Oda don't care about PLs as much as we do.

Yes. Zoro showed his interests in cutting Orochi and that's what his Plot is tied to.

Could be no of reasons, to not make the story predictable or might not even be related to immediate plot in Onepiece story.

He can be and not be, bt presently Kyoshiro is good foe for Zoro. If Zoro was not at his best, Kyoshiro also wasn't going all out on him.
Plus who says it has to be two extreme diff fights?

Foe or not, stalemate that Zoro is not something special, especially if he's a foe, since he didn't have any reason to let Zoro be.
No one said that. I said he will be a High-Diff, nothing more.

I admitted Orochii being a fodder, so i dont get ur point. Bt his mythical Zoan is strong that's what Zoro has to fight.

I don't get your point either. Are you trying to tell me that with fruit, Orochi for some magical reason will stop being fodder? This is not East/North/South/West Blue, not even the Paradise, where a strong fruit can turn you from a fodder to a god (Hi Enel), this is the New World, where having only a strong fruit and nothing more is straight way to a coffin.

Swordman fights are also lethal. Kamazou made Zoro faint, so you can believe what u want to. King is going to be hardest foe for Zoro to overcome

You just basically repeated me. Yes, swordsmen fight are lethal, that's why his fight with King won't last 10 or more hours. Zoro fainted because of hunger, poisoned food/water and of course because he needed to meet his future waifu, which leaded to the plot with his vendetta to Orochi and getting Enma. Like i said, Mr.1 and Kaku were the same "hardest foe" that Zoro needed to overcome. What's the reason to believe that his fight with King will be different from Mr.1 and Kaku or that Zoro will be in worse condition?

Everyone thinks their expectations are different and true.
If we are being realistic Zoro ain't even strong enough to be Second Oden yet much less second Ryumma. Oden came close to defeating a Top tier, Zoro is hardly top high Tier yet.
Only ray of hope i have for you here is Oda don't care about PLs as much as we do.

I don't care about him surpassing Oden or Ryuma this arc, i want people of Wano to acknowledge him as the Second Ryuma. Neither Orochi or King will help with that.

Yes. Zoro showed his interests in cutting Orochi and that's what his Plot is tied to.

Ok? Never denied that. It's just not his main path. And you didn't answer the question.

Could be no of reasons, to not make the story predictable or might not even be related to immediate plot in Onepiece story.

He already goes for Orochi's head, how can it be more predictable? There was no point to mention Enma as a sword that cut Kaido and nothing about Habakiri itself if he's not going to participate in fight with Kaido.
[automerge]1581168318[/automerge]

They are expecting some wild dream

Like your "Katakuri is the strongest Commander and future Yonko" or "Kidd is a YC1 level"? Good to know.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Yes, it is a parallel to Ryuma. How many people get to cut dragons lol?

I still think it’s a weak parallel tho. Ryuma didn’t just cut a dragon, he killed one, cutting its head off clean with one slash, akin to what Zoro did to the dragon on PH.

Also y’all have to remember that Ryuma isn’t great just coz he killed a dragon, it was just one of the many other things he did. Zoro has already killed a dragon so why repeat it?

That wasnt in Wano and it was an eastern dragon, in Monsters it was a western one.

I don’t really think the type of dragon matters tbf but if you want to be picky about it, both Zoro & Ryuma killed western dragons. Also does it really matter if it was on Wano? Again the only person who witnessed the Ryuma feat was Flare. Plus, Kinemon witnessed/(knows about) Zoro’s feat, so the Wano citizens can get to know about it through Kin like they did through flare

 

[Enma]

I still think it’s a weak parallel tho. Ryuma didn’t just cut a dragon, he killed one, cutting its head off clean with one slash, akin to what Zoro did to the dragon on PH.

Also y’all have to remember that Ryuma isn’t great just coz he killed a dragon, it was just one of the many other things he did. Zoro has already killed a dragon so why repeat it?


I don’t really think the type of dragon matters tbf but if you want to be picky about it, both Zoro & Ryuma killed western dragons. Also does it really matter if it was on Wano? Again the only person who witnessed the Ryuma feat was Flare. Plus, Kinemon witnessed/(knows about) Zoro’s feat, so the Wano citizens can get to know about it through Kin like they did through flare

Killing Dragon still is the most famous thing Ryuma done. I don't think that Wano citizens waiting for his second coming because of blackening sword. Kaido is the only one Dragon there, so...

It wasn't only Flare, there were another witnesses if I remember correctly. And that Dragon was going to destroy a town (or capital), so of course everyone knew about it. And in which case Kinemon will tell it? Drinking in the bar? And how would it spread through the whole Wano? And why should someone believe him? And why should they think about Zoro as Ryuma's second coming? Plus Kinemon didn't witness it himself, just heard about it.

 

[HA001]

I still think it’s a weak parallel tho. Ryuma didn’t just cut a dragon, he killed one, cutting its head off clean with one slash, akin to what Zoro did to the dragon on PH.

Also y’all have to remember that Ryuma isn’t great just coz he killed a dragon, it was just one of the many other things he did. Zoro has already killed a dragon so why repeat it?


I don’t really think the type of dragon matters tbf but if you want to be picky about it, both Zoro & Ryuma killed western dragons. Also does it really matter if it was on Wano? Again the only person who witnessed the Ryuma feat was Flare. Plus, Kinemon witnessed/(knows about) Zoro’s feat, so the Wano citizens can get to know about it through Kin like they did through flare

Monsters wasnt in wano. Ryuma cut down a dragon in the flower capital AS WELL.

 

[Finalbeta]

Killing Dragon still is the most famous thing Ryuma done. I don't think that Wano citizens waiting for his second coming because of blackening sword. Kaido is the only one Dragon there, so...

It wasn't only Flare, there were another witnesses if I remember correctly. And that Dragon was going to destroy a town (or capital), so of course everyone knew about it. And in which case Kinemon will tell it? Drinking in the bar? And how would it spread through the whole Wano? And why should someone believe him? And why should they think about Zoro as Ryuma's second coming? Plus Kinemon didn't witness it himself, just heard about it.

I feel like that Dragon was easily a country buster at full power assuming he could destroy a town extremely easily.

That would scale Ryuma alone.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

Monsters wasnt in wano. Ryuma cut down a dragon in the flower capital AS WELL.

Where else could it have been then tho? We know Wano’s been closed off for centuries. Can’t really remember if it as explicitly stated but I’ve always been under the impression that Wano was the setting for monsters. Also when was it stated that Ryuma killed another dragon in the flower capital?

Killing Dragon still is the most famous thing Ryuma done. I don't think that Wano citizens waiting for his second coming because of blackening sword. Kaido is the only one Dragon there, so...

It wasn't only Flare, there were another witnesses if I remember correctly. And that Dragon was going to destroy a town (or capital), so of course everyone knew about it. And in which case Kinemon will tell it? Drinking in the bar? And how would it spread through the whole Wano? And why should someone believe him? And why should they think about Zoro as Ryuma's second coming? Plus Kinemon didn't witness it himself, just heard about it.

Is it tho? I really doubt that given the way Onimaru played it down. Also, might just be personal preference, but I fail to see how killing a dragon tops creating a black blade 😓. There are only two known black blades in the verse, even Oden wasn’t able to create one but there’s more than a few swordsmen that can kill a dragon.

 

[HA001]

Where else could it have been then tho? We know Wano’s been closed off for centuries. Can’t really remember if it as explicitly stated but I’ve always been under the impression that Wano was the setting for monsters. Also when was it stated that Ryuma killed another dragon in the flower capital?


Is it tho? I really doubt that given the way Onimaru played it down. Also, might just be personal preference, but I fail to see how killing a dragon tops creating a black blade 😓. There are only two known black blades in the verse, even Oden wasn’t able to create one but there’s more than a few swordsmen that can kill a dragon.

Ryuma was a wandering swordsman in monsters.

When the borders are closed wano cant really be constantly attacked so maybe they were open until he died.

 

[Zowo]

Where else could it have been then tho? We know Wano’s been closed off for centuries. Can’t really remember if it as explicitly stated but I’ve always been under the impression that Wano was the setting for monsters. Also when was it stated that Ryuma killed another dragon in the flower capital?

 

[Garp the Fist]

I don't think Monsters is necessarily canon. It just has the same character, same as Romance Dawn has two Luffy's and Garp. One Piece Ryuma seems to have been a guardian of isolationist Wano who stayed and fought off invaders, including noticeably a dragon over the Flower Capital. It's quite hard to reconcile that with the story of Monsters, which clearly isn't set in Wano, and tbh doesn't really seem like One Piece at all.

 

[HA001]

I don't think Monsters is necessarily canon. It just has the same character, same as Romance Dawn has two Luffy's and Garp. One Piece Ryuma seems to have been a guardian of isolationist Wano who stayed and fought off invaders, including noticeably a dragon over the Flower Capital. It's quite hard to reconcile that with the story of Monsters, which clearly isn't set in Wano, and tbh doesn't really seem like One Piece at all.

Pretty sure he seperates monsters and romance dawn in an sbs and says one is canon and one isn't.

Wano with closed borders cant really be constantly attacked where theyd need saving from one man. So maybe it was open back then.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Pretty sure he seperates monsters and romance dawn in an sbs and says one is canon and one isn't.

Wano with closed borders cant really be constantly attacked where theyd need saving from one man. So maybe it was open back then.

I think it's this SBS you're talking about

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_47

D: Question for you!! Is the swordsman "Ryuma" who was once said to have defeated a dragon the very same Ryuma that starred in the short story "Monsters" from your collection volume entitled "Wanted!"? He is, isn't he? I'm so desperate to know, I can't brush my teeth. If I get a cavity, I'll tell the dentist it was your fault. P.N. Satoru-pyon

​

D: Greetings!! I cracked open "Wanted!" for the first time in ages and re-read "Romance Dawn", which prompted me to notice that Luffy's grandpa in that story was basically the same guy as Vice Admiral Garp! Does that mean that Garp was once the captain of a crew of pirates? P.N. Nao

O: Well, here are two questions about my old short story collection, "Wanted!" I'll tackle Ryuma's first. The zombie Ryuma appears in Chapter 450 from this volume, and he is indeed the Ryuma who starred in "Monsters". In the world of One Piece, he's now a legendary swordsman who died of sickness. I wouldn't have minded if this had just slipped through the cracks, but I was happy to see that so many people noticed. Next, Garp. He appeared as Luffy's grandpa, and a pirate no less, in the one-shot that served as the basis for One Piece. He might look the same, but I want you to see these as different stories. Grandpa Garp from THIS One Piece is a true blue Marine, from birth till death!!

It doesn't really rule Monsters out as non-canon the way it does Garp. I think you'd need the actual Japanese translation and someone's who spoke it to say for sure- the "now" might imply his One Piece history is different from his Monsters one.
But I still don't think Monsters is canon anyway. Oda wrote this answer years before the Wano arc. When he wrote that answer, maybe he thought that Monsters could have been canon, but changed his mind. All I know is for me, it doesn't make much sense for it to be.

 

[HA001]

I think it's this SBS you're talking about

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_47

D: Question for you!! Is the swordsman "Ryuma" who was once said to have defeated a dragon the very same Ryuma that starred in the short story "Monsters" from your collection volume entitled "Wanted!"? He is, isn't he? I'm so desperate to know, I can't brush my teeth. If I get a cavity, I'll tell the dentist it was your fault. P.N. Satoru-pyon

​

D: Greetings!! I cracked open "Wanted!" for the first time in ages and re-read "Romance Dawn", which prompted me to notice that Luffy's grandpa in that story was basically the same guy as Vice Admiral Garp! Does that mean that Garp was once the captain of a crew of pirates? P.N. Nao

O: Well, here are two questions about my old short story collection, "Wanted!" I'll tackle Ryuma's first. The zombie Ryuma appears in Chapter 450 from this volume, and he is indeed the Ryuma who starred in "Monsters". In the world of One Piece, he's now a legendary swordsman who died of sickness. I wouldn't have minded if this had just slipped through the cracks, but I was happy to see that so many people noticed. Next, Garp. He appeared as Luffy's grandpa, and a pirate no less, in the one-shot that served as the basis for One Piece. He might look the same, but I want you to see these as different stories. Grandpa Garp from THIS One Piece is a true blue Marine, from birth till death!!

It doesn't really rule Monsters out as non-canon the way it does Garp. I think you'd need the actual Japanese translation and someone's who spoke it to say for sure- the "now" might imply his One Piece history is different from his Monsters one.
But I still don't think Monsters is canon anyway. Oda wrote this answer years before the Wano arc. When he wrote that answer, maybe he thought that Monsters could have been canon, but changed his mind. All I know is for me, it doesn't make much sense for it to be.

Think it comes down to if it was open bordered back then. Cause he wad a wandering swordsman then.